My son is a 4th year ME at Cal Poly. He was fortunate to bring credit in and has done well, so all he has left after this quarter is the remainder of his senior project. He just officially became a Masters candidate. He likes mechatronics (his undergrad concentration), heat transfer and fluids and isn’t certain which area interest him the most. Additionally, Cal Poly is a VERY undergraduate centric school. Unlike graduate focused schools like UCB for instance, CP doesn’t really have big ongoing research programs that he could tag onto. There are a few, but all the research is student driven.
The MS is 45 hours. It’s a 4+1 so he can dual count 8 towards both his BS and MS. That leaves 37 hours. A thesis counts as 9, leaving 28 course hours, or he can do those hours as coursework forgoing the thesis. He’s intrigued by doing a thesis, but isn’t dead set on any of the three areas he’s still interested in.
Would doing a thesis pigeon hole him into careers in the area of his thesis only?
Is a course only thesis looked down upon for a terminal MS in engineering for a student who has no interest in academia?
As an employer, we often hire recent grads who have done concentrated work in an area related to our work. We don’t rule out candidates who have done work in other fields if they have the qualifications to work for us. So as far as pigeon holing goes, yes, it could make him more attractive to employers with a need in the area in which he does his thesis but I don’t think he’d be less attractive than if he had no thesis (if that makes sense. ) But that is just one perspective – others may have had different experience.
I did 42 of 45 units and then never finished my capstone project, due in large part to lack of interest on my part and lack of good guidance on my advisors part, after my project went poorly. You have to be motivated to find a project to work on that is achievable. I don’t think many in industry really care what type of 4+1 MSME you have. My opinion is that people learn a lot more in a traditional masters after working a few years. The 4+1 is an efficient way to check the MS box though.
@nordicdad, the main reason he’s doing it is that he has so much class capacity from being ahead. He can’t graduate early though, due to the way the final few classes (mainly senior project) lined up. He figured he’d take extra classes to deepen his knowledge and help focus his interest. The paper would be a side benefit, hopefully resulting in a little bump in starting salary. He’ll walk with his MS in 4 years plus 1 quarter best case, two quarters worst. All that said, he’s very intrigued by doing work that is “his.”
My son is concerned that employers will only care about his thesis and won’t look at his course work. Everything I’ve read here though by people that hire (@HPuck35, @colorado_mom, @ClassicRockerDad, etc.) is that they do pay attention to course work.
I think employers will take him at his word regarding what he is interested in, not just look at his thesis topic. One of my kids found her senior thesis project to be really rewarding (not in a STEM subject); it was a definite change from her normal coursework, and I think it helped her maturity to have full responsibility for original research.
I have worked for a couple of large engineering firms, and both preferred the thesis even if they did not intend to use the person in that specialization. The thesis demonstrates a greater depth of work and knowledge, and someone who can do that is more likely to succeed in whatever specialization they finally pursue. It’s only at the PhD level that the thesis starts to become binding.
That having been said, a non-thesis master’s is still better than just the BS.
If I am looking for someone at the MS/PhD level in thermal/fluids, but your son’s Masters coursework and thesis work is in mechatronics, I don’t think I would consider him for the position. There isn’t crossover between the two topics. The Masters bump in salary would be based on the additional focused work in the discipline (thesis or not). I would favor the grad student who took the deeper dive into thermal/fluids.
I don’t think it means he would be tied to mechatronics forever, whether he does the thesis or not. I am speaking more to that first job.
I personally think the thesis experience is valuable. And your son sounds like a very bright and hard working student who would get the most out of it. That said, a friend’s son completely disregarded my excellent advice to do the thesis, and he has landed a fantastic job : ).
No big difference between a thesis and non-thesis masters in any hiring decisions that I would make. My little difference would actually favor the additional classwork of a non-thesis program. You get enough “practical” experience on the job.
@cosmicfish and @VMT, his program director and a professor have both independently recommended he also apply to Stanford. It’s not something he originally considered simply due to the efficiency of having more than half of it done during his 4th year if he stayed at Cal Poly. For now, he’s moving forward with graduate classes at CP. There are lots of ifs, but if he applies (which is pretty likely), and if he gets in and gets funding, Stanford’s MS is non-thesis. How would that play where each of you work?
Interestingly, Berkeley’s terminal MS in ME is also non-thesis based.
I know many people with ME masters from Stanford. I think it stands out more than its undergrad program. Most people think it is a good program. There are many in the bay area who think Stanford is the greatest thing ever so that can help as well.
I think a thesis is a valuable part of a graduate degree and can make him stand out. We often ask people to give a talk to the group and people who have done a thesis have that aspect of it nailed. I don’t think it pigeonholes any more than a master’s degree pigeonholes anyway. What I mean is when I hire a BS, I can pay for their Masters to learn more depth in our area of specialization. If someone comes with a Masters in a different area of specialization I would have to pay them more, even though they don’t bring more capability than a BS, and I also have no mechanism short of having them get another Masters to pay for additional training.
So sure get a Masters, get one in an area you will be able to work in, and if possible do a thesis in that area that you can feature in an interview to demonstrate command of an area.
@nordicdad, were it not for what you mentioned in your last sentence, I don’t think he’d even consider it, as it’ll take more time and potentially cost more money than simply finishing at Cal Poly. It would undoubtedly open different doors though.
@ClassicRockerDad, he’s really at an interesting point in that he doesn’t know if he’s most interested in mechatronics, fluids or heat transfer. He’s enough ahead that he’s taken all the undergrad and grad level mechatronics and controls classes. He has enough capacity to take a quite a few graduate classes in fluids and HT. After that, he feels he’ll have a better handle on which direction he wants to go. The masters per se is really an after thought, a fringe benefit of simply being ahead. Were it not for that, I don’t think he’d do a masters until after he was out for a while, if then. That’s sort of why he’s conflicted about thesis work. He doesn’t want to do, for arguments sake, a mechatronics thesis, and then decide when it’s all said and done that fluids is his thing and then have an unrelated thesis. I think the typical route is to know these things before moving forward. Being ahead has got him sort of approaching it backwards, but for good reason.
If he went to Stanford, would the plan be to graduate Cal Poly with the BS, and fill the space in his schedule next year with graduate classes? Then pay for a year at Stanford? If that would be the plan, perhaps he should considering working for a company that will pay for the Masters. Then, he doesn’t have to make a decision right away about what direction to go in, and it’s funded.
@VMT, yea, that would be the idea. He’s a fourth year and has already started filling in with graduate classes. He’d stop with just the BS (and some extra coursework) from Poly if he gets into Stanford and gets funding. If he doesn’t get in or doesn’t get funding, it seems to make sense to just finish the MS at Poly since he’ll have almost all of it done in 4 years. The go back later scenario presumes a lot of things that are too up in the air right now. The biggest reason for the MS is being ahead. The degree per se is almost an afterthought. It seems a shame not to get the paper though if all the requirements are met.
Maybe consider staying the course that sounded acceptable until the program director and professor brought up Stanford (get the Master’s that he could get with no more expense) and think about further education (or not) after that? I know one of my kids , who was an undergraduate TA, got some encouragement to apply to Michigan for graduate work (implication being they could back him). It kind of threw him for a loop briefly because he hadn’t considered going directly to graduate school before then. He decided not to pursue it and has done well. Find out what your son really wants to do. It is flattering to have a program director or professor talk to him about Stanford but make sure he feels it is in his best interest to pursue that. It may or may not be , based on what he wants to do. At minimum, going the Stanford route could delay his entry into the workforce. That is a factor for some, a non issue for others.
@sevmom, that’s almost certainly what he’ll do. If it becomes an option, he’ll likely cross that bridge when he gets there. I brought it up really in context of thesis or not and it morphed into its own thing.
Although engineering students can often find funded grad program, I was under the impression that it was not common at Stanford. But per quick Google search I may be wrong. It’s still worth researching.
@colorado_mom, I was under that impression too, which is a large reason he didn’t consider that route earlier. It was only after meeting with several professors that he learned it’s a possibility.
Even if he does get in, it’ll be a tough choice. If he opts out of doing a thesis, he’ll be done with a course only MS and have taken all the extra courses he wanted like viscous flow and advanced heat transfer by only staying one quarter beyond 4 years. It’s a matter of trying to suss out whether or not, as @nordicdad references, Stanford is the greatest thing ever, and most importantly, how that will translate to career opportunities and wage differential versus the opportunity cost of delayed entry into the work force and possible need to pay tuition.
For now, he’s being pretty pragmatic. He’s in a good spot if he simply stays the course and walks with the extra background to help narrow his interests and an BS/MS from a pretty decent program.