<p>Understand where the rankings come from. A College President gets a questionaire and she/he fills out who she/he thinks are at the top of the game. Keep in mind this questionaire is on top of all other job responsibilities AND that president may not know about a lot of other schools AND some schools are really good at courtship/sucking up (gift baskets anyone? Tickets? Rate me well, I rate you the same?). Anyway, there are some very good reasons that a number of schools are backing away from the US News & Reports ratings game. </p>
<p>Look at these numbers instead: How many freshmen return for another year? How many graduate in 4 years? in six years? How many have a job at graduation? At six months after graduation? How many go on to grad school? Even better, go visit some schools, stay in the dorms and talk to the REAL experts -- the students one, two and three years ahead of you in the program. </p>
<p>You can elect anyone to #1 if you have the votes -- it's not the candidate, it's the perception of the candidate that counts. Cynical? Yeah, but it grumps me out when Stanford is compared Harvard -- or Williams to Whitman. They are all their own little apple or orange and they are not interchangeable parts.</p>
<p>Olymom, I've done as you said and I see no real benefit in attending Wisconsin or Minnesota over say Pittsburgh or Maryland :confused:. Salary wise and placement wise they do just as same. Thanks for the help! :)</p>
<p>College is not just about getting a good job after graduation; it is a 4 +/- year experience. There are "benefits" to attending one school over another if it fits you better.</p>
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College is not just about getting a good job after graduation; it is a 4 +/- year experience. There are "benefits" to attending one school over another if it fits you better.
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<p>Fit is great and all but I won't bring myself to a disadvantage by attending a school with few opportunities for me academically and professionally because of fit. I don't mean to offend anyone but frankly academics and professional opportunities are currently at the top of my list right now. Anyway thanks :)</p>
<p>Will someone refresh my memory, what's fit supposed to be again? Can't the "academics and professional opportunities" medha talks about be part of the fit?</p>
<p>"Fit" is used to describe the uncomfortable feeling your student has when the campus has too many trees or the students are dressed too preppy. This is usually a problem with female students and female parents. Male students and Dads do not speak in terms of, or understand, "fit." With them it's "I like this place" or "I hate this place." It is kind of like shopping. Females just like to look and try on possible campuses and evaluate them for "fit." Males don't do that. (Disclaimer, if the above does not apply to you, then fine, the above does not apply to you and you're an exception. So what.)</p>
<p>Rank is incredibly imprecise with a high noise level. Any group of five adjacently-ranked schools should be considered equivalent in "goodness." Nos. 1-5, all equivalent. 2-6, 3-7, 4-8, ... 16-20. There would be a difference between 1 and 10, 10 and 20, and so on. One is better than the other. But that's about all you can conclude. How much better, impossible to say, and what it means to you, impossible for us to know.</p>
<p>One last thing, for engineers, honestly, the most important thing is to go to a school your future employer has heard of and has had good experiences with their graduates. If you want to build bridges in Wisconsin, U.Wis. would be a good choice, also U.Mich., U.Minn., U.Ill. Florida State, not so much, even though civil engineers from there are probably just as competent. My brother in law hired new electrical engineers for a major computer maker in Silicon Valley. They only interviewed at Berkeley and Stanford. Why? Saved time. They hired all they needed of just-right engineers without looking any further. He was an MIT grad but was not allowed to interview at his alma mater.</p>
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There would be a difference between 1 and 10, 10 and 20, and so on. One is better than the other
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<p>But there would be significant difference between 1 and say 100. This is what I'm saying. I won't attend 100 because it's a fit or attend 1 if I just HATE the place.</p>
<p>I don't really care where in United States I work - for some reason I don't have a preference in that area.</p>
<p>Is it possible to judge "fit" without attending? Like milki, I too assumed certain "programs" could be part of fit!</p>
<p>^ It is possible to judge fit without attending. Get a Fiske book or something similar, look at the school's viewbooks, and even ask around on CC.</p>
<p>If you're interested in Chem E, you might also find yourself interested in materials science or applied chemistry, both of which have heavy societal implications, just as Chem E does (I used to work in the Chem E department at MIT, a million years ago). I wouldn't narrow yourself to engineering programs at such as early point in the process. Look for schools with a wide range of general education requirements so that you have time to explore during your first year. </p>
<p>What appeals to you about Chem E? Was it that list of income by engineering field... the one that shows chem engineers making more money than anyone else getting out of school? Or do you love chemistry and want to make a living at it? I'll point out that the national consumption of sulfuric acid is an accurate method of tracking the state of the US economy---an extraordinary amount of chemical engineering processes use sulfuric acid in enormous quantities. (If engineering manufacturing intrigues you, I'll point out that biotech also involves process engineering.)</p>
<p>Two close friends were both chemistry majors at UWisc (in the 80s). They certainly got an excellent education.</p>
<p>The best fit for a school would include academics and all those other variables that make one student love and the next one hate any given school. Academics would include a student body in your intellectual comfort zone, ie not too smart or too slow, so you could relate to others and do well in the courses; as well as the majors and courses available plus the level of them, such as the masters/doctoral programs, if any. Other fit factors include urban/large/small/cold/hot and other physical characteristics of the campus and its town. Political, religious, conservative/liberal and other sociological considerations also play a role in a best fit. Another aspect is the school spirit/sports/recreational/greek presence. No school will be perfect, you have to prioritize your wish list and go for the schools that match the most/highest priorities. That is why some of the best in any field will not have attended the school that is best in what became their chosen field. And it also explains why there are so many good ways to accomplish your career goals.</p>
<p>The importance of finding a school that is a good fit for you is that you will do your best in that environment; the best courses will be lost on you if you are miserable and therefore unable to concentrate on them. The schools with the best programs in your general field, eg math/science/engineering, are likely to draw the students like you; making the task less daunting than you might think. Please notice how I lumped those fields together, you may switch your specific career goals so you want to look at the bigger picture, it does no good to be at the best in x but the worst in y if you switch from x to y- the good at x and y will give you flexibility.</p>
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What appeals to you about Chem E? Was it that list of income by engineering field
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<p>God now. To be perfectly honest, it's actually the genetics aspect of it. I might sound a bit immature saying this but whenever the concept of DNA, Genetics comes up there's just this awesome feeling. I dunno how to best describe it, it's just purely awesome. I've tried my best to kindle this interest but have failed so far. The closest Biotech class at a high school/anywhere is 4 hours away :( I applied to an internship at a local lab but apparently they only take Citizens/Permanent residents.</p>
<p>Back to the topic, the fascination started in 9th grade with a Pre-IB Bio class. I LOVED the Biochemistry unit (I know it's not quite the same).</p>
<p>But I don't know if I really want to pursue further than a Masters. I've talked to many people (here at CC and elsewhere) and they tell me I'd need a PhD to get the kind of jobs I'm interested in. I'm not fully sure I want to do that. Another thing is (I mentioned this elsewhere on the site) that I'm interested in business (and politics) as well and would like to somehow pair biotech and business.</p>
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both of which have heavy societal implications
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<p>Exactly, I want to work at the forefront of the change we'll be experiencing</p>
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you might also find yourself interested in materials science
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<p>I'm not too interested in Materials (but I don't hate the concept at the same time), like I mentioned Biotech is what I'm interested in.</p>
<p>Rankings are a considerable but not overarching part of the process. No point in sending a 2400 scorer off to Community College if for some reason the community college is heaven for everything except for life after it.</p>
<p>Chemical engineering is NOT the same as biotech. Chemical engineering, in fact, does not deal with DNA at all. Genetics is not a chemical engineering field. Genetics is a field within biology. If genetics interests you, there are numerous career paths that use it, including genetics counseling and biotech.</p>
<p>Chemical engineers deal with manufacturing large quantities of commonly used chemicals. For example, oil refineries use "cat crackers" which are catalytic devices that break down oil into various components, such as gasoline, fuel oil, petroleum jelly, and so on. Chemical engineers work to make that process more efficient. Chemical engineers also design factories that make chocolate bars (as another example) (how to keep chocolate at just the right temperature to flow is an extremely difficult problem... just imagine the consequences of a power failure).</p>
<p>Biotech is a very different kind of process. The most common form of biotech is to genetically manipulate an organism (commonly a bacteria or a yeast) to produce massive amounts of a single desired bio-product, such as insulin or a mono-clonal antibody (mab). Once enormous vats have been prepared, the organism is grown, the bio-product is purified and packaged. So there are two stages: the genetic manipulation and the actual production. In Chemical engineering you mostly deal with minerals and salts (which are typically mined (and therefore non-renewable resources), such as oil, coal, minerals ("if it can't be grown, it has to be mined" is the motto of the California Mining Association)); in biotech, you deal with living organisms.</p>
<p>^ Not necessarily. Many colleges have revamped their ChemE programs to reflect a more bio inclined approach. Many even offer a concentration. ChemE is not restricted to the manufacturing of chemicals alone. Process engineering has overlap with drug production etc. I realised the best way to get to Biotech was through a ChemE degree.</p>
<p>Medha, if you're trying to get to biotech by going through ChemE, you should check the course offerings extremely carefully. For example, when I look carefully at MIT's biotech offerings, I see only a few courses, offered jointly with biology (and taught by professors I remember as graduate students from my days as a lab tech at MIT). I repeat, Chem E may not be the route you want, if you're interested in genetics and genetic manipulation.</p>
<p>Wisconsin continues to be on the cutting edge of stem cells, genetics, biochemistry and related fields an their commitment to facilities and funding are as high as any school's. There is more going on than just about anywhere in the US.</p>
<p>Get the College Pr0wler guide. It gives you the students' take on various scenes at colleges. It's great!</p>
<p>Basically, it should be all about fit, and not rankings. But in your case, when both have such great rankings, throw rankings out of the scene and just look at fit.</p>
<p>I don't know, but I just applied to all public schools in Florida (I'm one of three children and all of us are going to college right now). Then I saw which gave me scholarships. After that I checked rankings with their med departments, and was pleasantly surprised. You might have different needs and experiences coming into this. Mine was making my parents pay as little as possible and trying not to accumulate loans before I actually enter Med. school. What I've learned from all of this college stuff, is that everyone's experiences are completely different and personal.</p>