<p>Generally speaking, it is smart to go the top school you can get into (specifically for your program) since that is usually where you will get the best education.</p>
<p>Rankings are wholly unreliable, but are nice in that they help you know "hey, this college is really good".</p>
<p>So it is easy to find great schools at ur fingertips if u look at rankings...although most don't rank departments.</p>
<p>Rankings are "wholly unreliable" but nice? I love it! :)</p>
<p>Please look for best fit in terms of social life, location, academic majors, internships and cost/financial support.</p>
<p>The ubiquitous "prestige" factor comes into play...and how that affects people is very different. A lot of people (parents and kids) apply to prestige schools so they can brag and puff up. But just know that 50,000 other kids are doing the same thing and going to be applying to the same prestige schools.</p>
<p>Thus, look hard for a lesser known school....maybe an LAC....it may be a better fit for you.</p>
<p>Or maybe a state school.</p>
<p>Some modestly "ranked" schools have VERY highly ranked programs.</p>
<p>And dont believe all that crap they tell you about looking at students from all angles and completely....holistically......baloney! It all comes down to your stats.</p>
<p>And sometimes legacy/money/ or if you are applying for financial aid.</p>
<p>College admissions is a cold process many times.</p>
<p>When they have 24,000 applications for 1,700 seats you can see why.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>I think social life and the general atmosphere at a school is more important than its ranking. Most of my friends that are transferring schools this year are moving to "lower ranked" schools because they were so unhappy with the student life at their own school.</p>
<p>Rankings are completely useless unless you understand exactly what they are actually measuring. In some cases, you can take three or four different rankings, compare them, and based on what you know about their methodologies begin to draw some conclusions. </p>
<p>One of the problems with most rankings is that they are incredibly biased towards the largest programs, such as UC-Berkeley. Similarly, often rankings of "best french fries" or even "best restaurant" will have McDonald's as the world's best, even though anyone who has really tried different types of fries around the world knows that they are low sub-par. They may be the best in your podunk town but they are far from best in the world. </p>
<p>You need to take a much more finely-grained approach, which ultimately means talking to professors and students within individual programs, conducting extensive research on the educational opportunities available within a program and the level of student satisfaction, and coming up with a ranking of your own.</p>
<p>The general rule is that the best, most "selective" colleges with the largest endowments per student have the best programs. For example, journalism, paleontology or archeology programs. A ranking of these programs might just give you a list of formalized "journalism schools" or a list of universities that have "departments" of paleontology or archeology. However, the reality is that the nation's best journalists are almost all graduates of top liberal arts colleges such as Harvard, Yale and Amherst, often times writing for their college papers and almost always majoring in other fields such as mathematics or political science. And with respect to paleontology/archeology, the best programs aren't their own "departments", because they are housed within the "geology" or "anthropology" departments. </p>
<p>The best students go where the opportunities are best. The very top level, the cream of the cream of the cream of the crop, so to speak, is heavily concentrated at Harvard, Yale, MIT, and a couple others, and is few and far between elsewhere. So go to the absolute best college you can get into -- and also the best college "for you" -- and if you see a ranking, take it with a liberal truckload of salt only if you understand exactly what it means - and don't take it at all if you don't.</p>
<p>Um. Who cares??
Whatever you want to look at.</p>
<p>The ranking itself is unimportant - the data which creates the ranking is more important.</p>
<p>There are only three important pieces of data, ever, really. </p>
<p>1) Cost.
2) The strength of the student body (measured by SAT + GPA).
3) The reputation of the program in question.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The best students go where the opportunities are best. The very top level, the cream of the cream of the cream of the crop, so to speak, is heavily concentrated at Harvard, Yale, MIT, and a couple others, and is few and far between elsewhere. So go to the absolute best college you can get into -- and also the best college "for you" -- and if you see a ranking, take it with a liberal truckload of salt only if you understand exactly what it means - and don't take it at all if you don't.
[/quote]
Commonly given horrible advice. Going to the best college one can get into generally is a guarantee to not get a high GPA. That mantra heavily correlates to being an average student in the program, which means you likely be have the average GPA, the average research opportunities, the average graduation rate, and the average job opportunities. Average, for whatever that school is.</p>
<p>For example - someone gets a 1450 SAT (730M/720V) in 2003 in CA. They apply to all UCs for engineering. They get into all UCs. Going to the best school means going to Berkeley. That also means getting your balls busted - hard. Berkeley engineering is tough, real tough. Going to UCSB might be a safer option. Less stress, higher GPA, more research opportunities considering that one is a top student, and not an average student. You see where this is going?</p>
<p>I think rankings are worth looking at, to give you a general idea of what schools are good in your desired field, but by no means should they be the deciding factor. </p>
<p>Once you have an idea of which schools are strong (both from looking rankings, and also asking around), I think that personal fit should be factor number 1.</p>
<p>To be fair, Mr Payne, grad schools will not equate a GPA from UCSB with a GPA from Berkeley. But in terms of research opportunities, your point is valid.</p>
<p>It might be wise to take the "safer" option when it comes to different UCs, but taking the "easier" option when it comes to HYP/AWWWS versus a UC/Tufts/Emory etc is usually a huge mistake. It's kind of like creating a multi-million-dollar work of art and then deciding to exhibit it at your local McDonald's instead of at a juried show at the MOMA because you're worried it might sell for $200,000 less than the piece next to it.</p>
<p>i'd say don't use rankings at all. it's how well you fit in the college, not how prestigious it is. hence, you're probably going to change majors anyways, so looking at department rankings won't be much of help.</p>
<p>Elitism is a disease, in my humble opinion. While I would NEVER denigrate the quality of education at Berkeley or Harvard, Princeton Yale etc.....the fact remains that, after talking to students who went there, many were disillusioned, disheartened, and disappointed. Their realization that a superb quality of education really at par with theirs could be had at the second tier and even some quality third tier schools, not to mention the fun factor, the healthy lifestyle factor etc.....consumes some of them. Sure, their parchment will always read HARVARD or Berkeley.....fine. But to suggest that it generates better jobs is not necessarily so.</p>
<p>Tens of thousands of highly motivated and superb students graduate EACH YEAR from hundreds of colleges...be they math teachers, engineers, history majors headed to law school, or whatever. </p>
<p>If someone gets into and wants to attend the elite schools, fine. I congratulate them. But if they are going simply for the elitist notion they are superior to all others....I give them a big watermelon.</p>
<p>PHOOEY!</p>
<p>The best students will rise to the top like the cream from the milk....no matter where they go to college.</p>
<p>But yes, if you go to Berkeley and Harvard you might very well end up in the middle (or lower) part of the class. You should know that going in and make your choices accordingly. To some, its still worth it. To others, its just a name they are after anyway. But to others, being happy, content, fulfilled, and challenged WITHOUT being beseiged and beleaguered, they choose a different and EQUALLY RATIONAL AND SATISFACTORY decision: to pick the second or third tier school.</p>
<p>In my estimation there is simply not that much difference in the education you get at MANY schools....particularly the top 100 or so schools in the country.</p>
<p>Some programs are more noteworthy at some schools than others.</p>
<p>Not many kids turn down the Ivy League or Stanford, Berkeley etc if they get in, for a lower ranked school. Most kids who decline offers of admission do so to go to a higher "ranked" school. Often without really thinking through the process carefully if it is a good fit for them or not.</p>
<p>And yes, one can make HUGE mistakes going DOWN the ladder as well. One has to be very careful to visit the school, talk to professors and students, and consider ALL the angles and options before making a decision where to attend.</p>
<p>But I do agree with the poster above who said that the stats of the ranked schools, rather than the ranking in and of itself, is more helpful to prospective students.</p>
<p>Each school has a mission...a culture.....and social structure.....and it would be remiss of me not to STRONGLY suggest that one consider THOSE factors as important as the avg. sat score of kids attending.</p>
<p>Good luck, everyone.</p>
<p>I disagree. The fact of the matter is that graduates of the top-tier colleges are happier with their experiences and also far more "successful," by any measure, after they graduate. There are always exceptions but the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of choosing the best school you can get into. That said, as I said above you need to be careful when interpreting any rankings.</p>
<p>Student happiness rankings are the only ones that really matter. If you're going to be spending four years there, then its best not to be horribly unhappy.</p>
<p>Happiness is so subjective, and involves short term vs. long term considerations. For example, our daughter says the worst thing about her school is the stress culture, but she doesn't want to be anywhere else. She's certainly not horribly unhappy, but she's stressed, and would never have picked the school because of its happiness ranking. A 2004 school survey said that on a scale of 1 to 10, 22% rate their happiness as a 7, with nearly linear attenuation on both sides. I have no idea how this compares to other schools.</p>
<p>Can someone post various happiness rankings or links? I looked briefly with no luck.</p>
<p>They should have no effect on your decision. Go to the school you will be happiest at. If you want an engineering degree, goto a school with a large engineering program.</p>
<p>Medha and Barrons--
Where does one find rankings by department? I subscribe to US News & World Report guide to colleges, but I cannot seem to find rankings by department there. Thanks for help.</p>
<p>I would not agree that only kids from top tier schools do well in the working world or get into grad schools. That simply is not true. There are many failures from kids who went to prestigious schools. Heck, didnt Mama Cass go to Swarthmore College? LOL.</p>
<p>Schools like NC State have absolutely superb and very rigorous engineering programs. Ditto Virginia Tech and they are not considered elite schools by any stretch....just very sound state schools.</p>
<p>I am not picking on kids who desire to go to an Ivy and get in. I offer my heartfelt congratulations. I am just trying to dispel the notion among the neurotic applicant pool each year that the Ivy League is not the only game in town and moreover, if you go somewhere simply out of status that may be more harmful than helpful. Nothing wrong with reaching for the stars and doing your best. But if you peruse CC for very long you see a lot of people (parents and students) with serious attitude adjustment problems.</p>
<p>College admissions have become more like a Vegas Casino than anything. And nobody knows how to make it more sane and fair. What I want is FULL DISCLOSURE from the schools. Tell it like it is: i.e. "we admit 25% from each quartile of the country (North, South, East, West), or "we seldom if ever admit anyone with a score below 1300 or GPA below 3.7." Or whatever. Or we admit 70% from private schools. Or we admit 80% from public schools. Whatever the deal is, publish it in the open.</p>
<p>And selectivity does not necessarily equate to a superb academic school experience. Some highly selective schools are not as demanding or rigorous once you get there as others. Some have huge grade inflation problems Ivy League is notorious for this.)
Dartmouth you only take 3 classes and cram (skim?) into a short trimester. Others you take 5 classes in long semesters and you need scuba gear to see what the hell is going on before coming up for air.</p>
<p>And some schools have exceptional programs but are otherwise ranked in the middle of the pack: i.e. St. Louis Univ has the number one nutritional science program in the country and a top five flight school tied into the old McDonnell Douglas plant. If I was going to be a nutritionist I would go there and turn down Dartmouth.</p>