Too old?

<p>Are nontraditional students ever accepted into voice programs? Do you think 27-ish is too old for vocal performance/opera? Would they laugh me off the stage?</p>

<p>I should have studied it the first time around! I got close to a full ride to participate during my undergrad years, graduated with a science degree, and have realized money doesn't make you like your job....sob, I know.</p>

<p>Are scholarships given to those of all music majors, or are certain majors more likely to receive help?</p>

<p>There are older students in the programs and with scholarships or grants. . Sometimes it takes longer for a voice to develop. Your major problem may be the other courses that are required for a major. You should check out the schools that interest you and see what their specific policies are. Have you continued your voice studies privately? If so your teacher should be able to guide you in applications. If not, the first step may be to get back to private voice lessons from someone knowledgeable in MM or certificate admissions.</p>

<p>Thanks so much for the reply. Are nontraditional students ever admitted into competitive programs? Juliiard, CCM, etc.?</p>

<p>Also, please explain further: Your major problem may be the other courses that are required for a major.</p>

<p>There is one guy in my program that already has a degree in architecture. He’s going to be a senior in my studio this year.</p>

<p>I don’t think you are too old. I know someone who gave up a career in science research to go to Juliard.</p>

<p>Are you planning to return for a BM in vocal performance? A 2nd bachelors can be at times problematic in both the admission and financial aid process. The “other courses” are music theory, history, aural skills/solfege, diction, languages, etc. Going for a 2nd bachelors will cover these things, but returning to college for a graduate degree may pose some problems in that you may be admitted to an MM degree based on your audition, but you would need to take several undergraduate courses in various subjects to bring yourself up to speed, adding another year+ to the degree. </p>

<p>With voice it is done, and done often enough for you to not feel entirely out of place. This fall we have a former actor joining us. She earned a BA in theatre from McGill, and worked in a professional Canadian troupe for a while. One of her roles required her to sing, and she discovered she had a voice, returned to McGill for a BM in voice, and is now going to earn an MM in voice from us. </p>

<p>What is your plan to prepare for a competitive audition, singing taxing arias from memory in several languages? What was/is your background in singing to begin with?</p>

<p>I can’t thank everyone enough for these responses–this is so helpful.</p>

<p>I will be completely honest and say I am only now developing a plan. One is definitely in the works. I had assumed it would be necessary to seek a BM, and I anticipated problems with financial aid (being the reason I asked about scholarships). I am a Cincinnati resident, which I why I specifically mentioned CCM. My undergraduate work is science/technical–in no way arts-related. I doubt I would qualify for a MM based on the prerequisites, alone.</p>

<p>A bit about my background–and I really do appreciate your honesty. I am a life-long pianist who reached, what I would consider, my maximum potential without having that “natural gift” one would have needed to continue schooling. My voice was classically trained–I received full scholarships and acceptance to voice programs at Ball State and Otterbein but turned both of them down to make money, I suppose. I did receive a quite large scholarship to sing in a contemporary group at a university with no music school.<br>
That is where my training ended. During college I was working proficient in French, and I am Italian by heritage, so I don’t feel language would not be an issue.</p>

<p>I believe at one time I could have been competitive in an advanced program. My plan now is to find someone who can tell me that, based on my abilities, it’s not worth my time, or I would be a candidate at a school of “this” caliber.</p>

<p>27 is not too old for voice. At that age, it is just starting to mature. Look for something like an Artists Diploma. Kind of like a Performance Certificate.</p>

<p>[Artist</a> Diploma](<a href=“http://www.newenglandconservatory.edu/degrees/artist.html]Artist”>http://www.newenglandconservatory.edu/degrees/artist.html)</p>

<p>However, you still need the education background. A lot of the Interviews with Chorus Masters say that Sight Singing is a definite requirement for all their singers. They hear lots of great voices, but if they can’t sight sing, they will pass.</p>

<p>Some schools list as a prerequisite for graduate study that an applicant hold a BM or equivalent. The devil is in the details of what your background is…theory, music history, piano skills, performance level skills…entrance exams will validate your background or show the deficits which must be addressed. I have had at least four students over the years with non-music undergraduate degrees who entered graduate school in voice. One has a PhD in a science area and returned for an MM program in opera performance. It can be done. However, being a singer does not require that you have any degrees…again the devil is in the details…what kind of voice do you have, how rare, how good is the talent, how well does your voice category (Fach) and body type match up for purposes of opera casting, etc.? Good luck to you.</p>

<p>I appreciate everyone’s comments very much. I spoke with a respected voice coach who said I’m, in essence, too old to return for performance. Apparently this return easier done with males, and being a female it really wouldn’t be worth the effort. He recommend I take a semi-pro approach…so it looks like I’m off the college board and on to a community forum.</p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

<p>Just to add a couple of things that have been missed;
Artist Diploma, Artist Certificates,etc- those are “special undergraduate credentials granted upon demonstration of an extraordinary level of performance skills”…“Auditions procedures exercise the highest degree of selectivity…”. Usually these are for active performers who can not be enrolled in graduate programs.
Going further, to really progress in opera, one must enter “Young Artist Programs” affiliated with major opera companies and they have restrictions according to age, generally early 20’s to 30. Usually one auditions for those after completing a Masters degree.
Many of you describe students in your programs who have had another profession or who have another undergrad degree, but with the constraints placed by the “Young Artist Programs”, the OP would be too old for these if she had to complete another undergrad degree in voice. Yes, I realize that voices are really coming into maturity at the OPs age, but the rules are set and nothing is likely to change within the next few years.
OP- if you have been keeping up with your voice lessons, you might try looking into “apprentice singer” slots with various companies. While they don’t usually expect applicants who haven’t come directly from school, you never know who you’re up against that year… Good luck!</p>

<p>Yeah, I totally agree with OperaDad. An Artist Diploma might be a better degree for you. I’m not sure if Julliard has this, but you could look that up.</p>

<p>boiler4ever – what is your ultimate goal? If you are looking to start an international opera performance career, you may well be a little late in the game to start – particularly if you are a soprano. </p>

<p>However – if you are looking to train your voice, teach voice, sing professionally or semi-professionally there is no reason you could not pursue a master’s degree or diploma in voice… possibly performance and pedagogy. This if offered by some schools. If you are missing the requisit undergraduate course work in music history, theory, voice lit, diction, etc… you could find out what you need to “make-up” before applying, and what you might be able to take as part of a program.</p>

<p>My mom was 26 or 27 when she started the MM program at Eastman. Her undergraduate degree was in French. She had always played the violin, piano, danced, and sang, and had taken as many music courses during undergrad as her college offered. When she was still performing she performed principal roles with smaller regional opera companies, was a soloist with professional music festivals, and was an active recitalist. This performing was not paying all of the bills, but her “day” job was (and still is) teaching voice both privately in a home studio and at a university. 12 years after completing her MM she went on to her DMA in performance and pedagogy. She no longer performs regularly, but continues to teach, music direct, and is active on a regional and national level in NATS </p>

<p>I am not in the opera world… and maybe the path that she followed is no longer a viable path in the current market. I am not sure. But, if music is your passion and you would like to make the shift to making career in music it may be worth finding out what routes are available to you.</p>

<p>GOOD LUCK!</p>

<p>Please, if I am wrong, forgive me, but I’m feeling like some are thinking that Artists Diplomas/Certificates are the “lesser” or “easier” path to take, and they are not.
Artists Diplomas are geared toward students who have completed grad school but who might not feel quite ready to audition for a Young Artist Program, or those who need to work on acquiring additional/different rep. It is a way to ensure a weekly lesson and gain performance experience. They also provide additional opportunity for study to singers who may have already been performing, but who realize that they must have more supervised training in order to progress.They are not for the faint of heart as they are rigorous and very difficult to gain entrance to, even if one has gone straight through undergrad to grad student in voice!
For example, here is what is written on CCM’s web site: (note that there are even different types of “specializations” within the vocal path.
Artist Diploma in Voice
Cincinnati audition and interview required. This is a highly
selective post-master’s degree program for the exceptional
singer who wishes to specialize in a particular area of nonoperatic
vocal literature, such as song repertoire in a particular
language, contemporary music, baroque music, etc.
The applicant must present a written proposal (eight copies) at
the time of the audition. The proposal should outline the specialization,
including possible course work that would support
it. Possible recital programs should also be submitted. Upon
acceptance into the program, the student’s proposal will be
reviewed and modified as needed by the advising committee.
Audition repertoire should represent the area of specialization
with at least four selections. Additional contrasting repertoire may be required</p>

<p>Artist Diploma - Singers (BTW, there are no openings in this program open right now)
The program is limited to twelve singers who will perform at least four major roles in fully-staged productions. Students receive private coaching, intensive actor training and role preparation together with movement, period dance, language, audition and career management classes, and master classes with some of the finest artists in the world of opera.</p>

<p>Given the above, unless the OP has been keeping up her vocal training consistently while working on her other degree, I would think that this is not a viable path to pursue. Things have changed quite a bit over the past 10-20 years, and while some graduate degree programs may give consideration to s student who has not gone the traditional route through voice degrees, the better schools will not ( especially not in the case of a soprano). It’s a matter of “paying one’s dues” and being prepared to hit the ground running. By reading the paragraph above, you can see that there is no time for a “learning curve”.
Even if one wants to teach, there is quite a difference. Perhaps it is possible to teach in a community music school or as a private teacher to high school age students, but look at the bios written for voice faculty at the top schools- there may be a mention of their colleges and teachers, but it is all about the roles that have been performed, festivals attended,etc.
In the case of the OP, I would still suggest that she evaluate her qualifications, especially in light of what can be found on school’s websites, and if she feels that she has a shot at it, she should contact the heads of vocal departments at a couple of schools to discuss her plans and options.</p>