<p>Plus Figgy, you've got to conceed that this thread is a bit more interesting than the typical "Do (fill in the race blank) chicks dig (fill in the race blank) men?" or the "Is pink a good color to wear to rush week" threads.</p>
<p>So cinch down that helmet and jump back in Figgy! Really, we're just playing...</p>
<p>"Plus Figgy, you've got to conceed that this thread is a bit more interesting than the typical "Do (fill in the race blank) chicks dig (fill in the race blank) men?" hahaha ya</p>
<p>Ya I just wanted you guys to realize that every opinion by the civilian colleges didn't need to be fought with and proven wrong. West Point is obviously a great school and in a catagory itself and hard to compare to others. </p>
<p>ps when I was thinking about this on my way to bed I realized something. You guys dissed Harvard by saying that someone who spoke to the kids at one of the schools was accepted at Harvard. Then I realized that you were putting him in the spot light for being accepted by Harvard (but going to this other school). Well you know what...I'd say that if you look at Harvard, quite a few kids there were also accepted by Harvard ;)</p>
<p>o and I like that 1st song in the link for the pictures of the army navy game haha</p>
<p>Figgy, you're alright. Hey, and if you loved that first song you're really enjoy this one:</p>
<p>And for the record, we're much harder amongst ourselves than we are here, and we LOVE to fight! Come visit us at the service academy webboard, we would enjoy hearing your opinions.</p>
<p>LOL, Figgy, they're out to kill, but first they'll invite you to their messageboard!!!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>Yeah, if I had my choice of which student body to get mobbed by, I'd definitely put West Point dead last with Texas A&M.</p>
<p>Cre8tive1, it's called winning their hearts and minds. And btw, we don't "kill" anymore; it's not pc. We "smoke-em".</p>
<p>lol I don't like that other song as much. </p>
<p>Thanks for being so welcoming about the military boards, but I'm really liberal and don't pass by them too often. </p>
<p>(and I don't doubt the rivalry between the service academies lol. When there are only like 6 schools in a division, things like sports and competitions are bound to get heated heh)</p>
<p>I'm also liberal Figgy, and my son considers himself a "tree hugging hippy" (albiet with very short hair now). At our house we don't feel that is out of step with the military and service to our nation, and I'd wager that many of the parents and their children at West Point have a similar view. Anyway, nice chatting with you.</p>
<p>Well that would definitely be nice for there to be a diverse opinion at these places. My parents were hippies and I've seen first hand the negative effect of the stereotypical "conservatives" (I go to a small school with an ag program...so you can imagine the stereotypical "republican/conservative" people I have encountered). I can't wait to be in a liberal college environment. (yep nice talkin to you)</p>
<p>The point that I think people here are missing is that the thread was called ACADEMICALLY stressful schools. The academies are extremely stressful overall because on top of a heavy courseload (not necessarily difficult) you have so many other requirements that other college students don't have. This doesn't mean however that the school is more ACADEMICALLY stressful...my 2 best friends in h.s. ended up going to academies (one is at USMA and one is at USMMA), both were decent students in h.s. (on the lower end of the top 10-15%) and both are currently 1st in their class academically at their respective academies (on is probably one of the most decorated students at his academy having a presidential and a vp nomination for the academy). Despite the rigorous OVERALL lifestyle that they have to endure every day, their ACADEMIC lives are nowhere near as stressful as my friends who went to MIT and Harvard or myself at Wharton. At the academies you generally have academically above-average students taking a heavy courseload however (at least from what my 2 academy friends say) the difficulty of the academics and the academic competition is not as intense as at many other top schools. Plus these cadets have to serve anyway after they graduate so they arent competing for the same jobs after college. </p>
<p>I'll use the example of my school just to illustrate the difference in "academic stress/competition." Here at Wharton you have 500 extremely bright students in every class that end up competing for the same, prestigious, coveted investment banking jobs. This leads to an academic environment that is overly competitive (many actually cant handle it and transfer out). On our exams, for example, a 92/100% will many times be a C/C-. While at the academies and many other colleges this would be an A+ because the tests at most schools are curved down (most likely a 80% will get you an A). So the competition is extremely intense making students study exorbitant amounts knowing that they need to ACE every test, assignment,etc. if they want to get that investment banking job. Academically I can guarantee you that I study more than the majority of students at any of the academies...and this is comparing myself with the current #1 students at 2 of the academies. </p>
<p>I have nothing against academies...I think they are excellent schools that not only provide good academics but also provide discipline, values, morals, etc. I can guarantee you that most Harvard students could not survive the intense LIFESTYLE at the academies (the academics they could handle) however I also think that many of the students at the academies could not handle the ACADEMICS at schools like MIT where they would be having more difficult and competitive classes and where they'd be up against the academic cream of the crop instead of an academically weaker student body that the academies tend to have compared to the nation's elite academic institutions.</p>
<p>very good points bern</p>
<p>The point that I think people here are missing is that the thread was called ACADEMICALLY stressful schools</p>
<p>Which is why I mentioned Reed- because along with the papers- the reading- and the discussions ( and the labs), there is no getting around that for any student to receive a diploma, they have to write ( which is published & copies kept in the thesis tower) a year long thesis as well as pass an oral exam.</p>
<p>I completely agree emeraldkity4...a friend of mine is at reed and works like no other...</p>
<p>well said bern</p>
<p>btw if you want to see what an academically stressful school is like read "Running of the Bulls: Inside the Cutthroat Race from Wharton to Wall Street by Nicole Ridgway..."</p>
<p>Well, I guess I really stirred up the hornets' nest.</p>
<p>Actually, the discussion has been very enlightening for me. I thank everyone for that. </p>
<p>It’s nice to be able to disagree without being disagreeable. </p>
<p>Now drive home safely everyone.</p>
<p>Again, thank you.</p>
<p>Next week we discuss which conference has the best football programs. (Academies don’t have a dog in that fight) ;-) </p>
<p>Go KP!!! Beat Coast Guard!!</p>
<p>lol my friend who goes to an academy goes to Coast Guard</p>
<p>I enlisted for two years in the armed forces, recently got out with an honorable discharge. Here's my take on graduates from the service academies. They are obviously bright and possess a strong work ethic, moral values and of course are in good physical shape. However, very few of them would pass as truly exceptional. The academy indoctrination, if anything, is geared towards the opposite: to make their graduates productive members of a unit, the discipline of teamwork strongly emphasized over the genius of individuality. Indeed, there is a reason why most of them go into engineering, business, or medicine -- applied fields rather than theoretical ones such as physics, neuroscience, philosophy.
Yes, a service academy student body can probably run faster than the one at Swarthmore or Yale. But which one will give us a more kick-ass rendition of King Lear or The Fifth Symphony?</p>
<p>As for the football question. Well...I guess that would be the SEC. Now, the conference with the best academics and football, that would be interesting (Independents might be near the top here), or the best looking coeds, that's the SEC, two out of three. SEC wins.</p>
<p>As one who attended a service academy and then Wharton, I managed to have a 4.0 semester at Wharton, something I never managed at the service academy. I found the professors were excellent and the girls were certainly much more attractive. The academics were on par with the academy, it was the time factor that made the 4.0 possible at Wharton and still had time to workout, study at the library, and knock down some brews. I thoroughly enjoyed myself while on campus in every setting, the same certainly could not be said for the academy. Annapolis was certainly and without a doubt more stressful academically because of the difficulties of managing my time. At Wharton, I only had to work, go to school, study and workout.</p>
<p>dwincho, </p>
<p>Well said. We need kick-ass renditions of King Lear and we need good officers, and they are not the same person.</p>
<p>Smart kids everywhere just amaze me. Hell, I was stressed just trying to remember snap counts back in college. :-)</p>
<p>I felt I would indeed get flak for my post saying Service Academies aren't as difficult to get into as most top privates, and I stand by it.</p>
<p>I'm not saying they aren't top schools, but they aren't better than HYPSM ACADEMICALLY, at least in terms of admissions requirements - which is what the thread is about. Just look at SAT scores. I knew people would criticize me, but I'm actually voicing a valid opinion. People in this forum have said things like "people at West Point use top 10 privates as safeties" or sometihng along that line, and its definetely not true. If someone is a current West Point student, I can PM you a list of 7-8 current students '07, '08, and '09, that I'm personally friends with (on facebook atleast...) that didn't get into their top choice privates which they would have chosen over the service academy. I probably won't actually do it, but I could.
These kids are all born leaders, captains of sports teams, etc. some of the brightest all around people I know in terms of social skills, garnering respect, and just being great people. But ACADEMICALLY (judging by grades, SATs, etc.) they aren't as outstanding as students at say the top 10 private schools. JUST ACADEMICALLY - which is what the topic says. As in, taking Econ or Math or English or standardized tests.</p>
<p>I'm not sure if the average scores or anything like that are available for service academies besides West Point. For West Point, which I considered applying to for a bit and looked into and in fact had Corzine's recommendation, it says 49 percent of all attending students scored between a 600-700 on each portion of the SATs. 27 percent scored below a 600 on each section of the SATs.
In comparison, for most top 10 privates, the middle 50 percent of students score around a 680 - 770 on each section of the SATs, roughly averaging out the top 10 private schools. Also, 70 percent of West Point Students ranked in the top fifth of their class, whereas at the top 10 privates about 85 percent of students ranked in the top tenth of their class. </p>
<p>Vague statistics, yes, but enough to show you that the students that attend aren't as ACADEMICALLY selective as top privates. Source: <a href="http://admissions.usma.edu/MoreInfo/classprofile.cfm%5B/url%5D">http://admissions.usma.edu/MoreInfo/classprofile.cfm</a> </p>
<p>They are indeed among the most selective in the country, but not in terms of academics. If a student is looking for a top school for just academics, they shouldn't think the students at USMA are equal to students at Harvard (or similar schools).</p>
<p>Please don't think I'm disrespecting the service academies, just trying to voice a differing opinion that seemed swallowed up.
I hope my usage of facts was convincing enough not to get me e-shouted at hehe.</p>