<p>I've heard that it is harder to get into West Point than to top Ivies. Is this true? Approximately how many people apply to West Point each year? I also heard that West Point is the best among the Military schools as well, is this true? Thanks!</p>
<p>Academically it isnt as tough and maybe not even e.c.'s but you have to be in shape to get into an academy which the other schools dont require</p>
<p>Well, the fact that you have to be academically- AND physically-/medically-qualified makes it a lot harder to get into service academies. </p>
<p>I think on average, around 13000 people apply... around 12-14% get in. Those are just my estimates.</p>
<p>I am not sure if West Point is harder to get into because I don't know the stats for the ivy league schools, but if you check out this link: <a href="http://www.usma.edu/Class/2009/profile.asp%5B/url%5D">http://www.usma.edu/Class/2009/profile.asp</a> you will see the entering profile for class of 2009. If you take the total number of accepted candidates (1251) and divide by the number of applicant files started (10,773) you get about 11.6% accepted out of the original applicants. On the USMA website you can see the entering profiles for the last few classes and that will give you an idea of how many people apply each year.</p>
<p>This link: <a href="http://www.dean.usma.edu/Scholarships/%5B/url%5D">http://www.dean.usma.edu/Scholarships/</a> also shows how many Rhodes, Hertz, Marshall, etc. scholars there are from USMA compared to other ivy league schools. I also found USMA on the best colleges lists of US News and World Report and the Princeton Review. </p>
<p>I know I am biased, but I do think West Point is THE best military school. :D</p>
<p>Well, the Naval Academy had 4 Rhodes Scholars this year -- more than ANY other school has ever had in one year :) In the spirit of service academy brotherhood, I know West Point's physical requirements are more stringent than the Naval Academy's.</p>
<p>Hm... yeah I don't think the academic requirements are more selective than the Ivies. At all. It's the physical requirements. I'm going to the SLS thing not because I'm going to West Point, but holy c rap, just looking at the CFA or whatever requirements blows my mind. I mean, peopel are talking about 5:20 ish miles or something. That takes an insane level of dedication/fitness for regular bummish people (like me).</p>
<p>Those times are maximums, last year I ran a 7 min mile and was at no risk for application rejection because of physical fitness.</p>
<p>It's not just about "getting in" but being able to stay in. My nephew went to Harvard and his comment was that once you got in the battle to stay in was pretty much won as long as you kept up with tuition. It took a lot for them to throw you out. At the service academies you have to prove your "metal" every day--physically and mentally. Many at the Ivies would never get accepted or be able to stay at an academy like West Point no matter how academically gifted they are. Being a "whole person" candidate/student is a lot tougher.</p>
<p>Ooh this is interesting. Shogun, can you expand on your perspective? I'm aiming for the Ivies and I'm 99% sure I'm not interested in West Point, but I've always wondered (besides physical fitness) how West Point kids are different. I mean, I know plenty of Harvard/MIT/whatever kids who have nerves of steel and can withstand intense psychological and mental pressure. I suppose pushing yourself to the limit in that sense is different from the mental preparation required to suceed in the military, but I never really understood in what way. Is it the combination of academics and physical activities? Or is it just the serving in the military thing that's lots of pressure?</p>
<p>who cares how tough it is to get in. i can guarantee you that all ther service academies are tougher than than any other college or university</p>
<p>I think it's a vocation; along the lines of a religious vocation. You just know that this is where you're supposed to be. All the other schools are definitely second choice if you reallly want to go to a service academy. It takes a lot of dedication in many areas to get in. Plus you know that you are committed for many years, including summers.</p>
<p>Tabu: What do you mean they have nerves of steel? I'm not disagreeing I just think its a weird comment to make about people who (I'm genaralizing) don't go through an enormous amount of stress everyday.</p>
<p>Yeah, academically not even close. The Ivies are much more selective and probably "harder to get into." I think that West Point has a lower acceptance rate than some of the Ivies, but still probably isn't as hard to get into. You have to look at the caliber of students who are applying. West Point might get more applicants, but not necessarily more qualified ones. I think nearly all Harvard students are more than academically qualified for any service academy.</p>
<p>Er...I guess I'm just referring to the small percentage of students who push themselves an insane amount. For instance, some Caltech students that I know are the most driven individuals I've ever met. They can work hardcore for like 6 hours straight, never stopping their critical thinking. Most people get tired after taking the SAT.</p>
<p>I think that the service academies fiddle with their numbers quite a bit. "Applicant Files Started" does not show how many applicants there are. Harvard doesnt report its admit % using the amount of people that considered possibly applying to the place, but the number of people who completed the application and were actually CONSIDERED. 13,000 applicant files started translates into very few files completed which raises the admit % quite a bit.</p>
<p>Also, you CANNOT compare admit percentages. I don't know how many times I have to explain this to everybody but the admit % just reflects the applicant pool in comparison to the college's standards. </p>
<p>I believe that one of the most important factors of getting into a service academy is not how many volunteer hours you have or whatever, but the district you are in and your luck with who your competition is. Last year only 1 person from my district applied to USNA, so if that applicant was the average applicant, then USNA wasn't that hard to get into last year. USMA had about 7 applicants this year and we were all very competitive... I was ranked like 5th and was considered "academically and physically qualified" by usma. Something like 65% of applicants in this category get appointments, but not in my district last year. It may be a totally different beast this year for my district, and I'm hoping my luck says it is. </p>
<p>Sparknotes: luck, luck luck, cant compare admit %, nobody wants to go to usna, applicant files started doesnt equal applicants.</p>
<p>I hate to generalize, and I mean no offense to anyone BUT if I had to chose whether the average Ivy Leaguer could survive 4 years at West point or the average West Pointer could survive 4 years at Harvard (assuming it still only takes 4 years to graduate a civilian college--I'm old :) ) I think I'd have my money on the cadet.</p>
<p>Yea--anyone that hasn't been here wouldn't understand what it's like. Academically, it's harder to get into the Ivies. However, West Point doesn't just base it on the Academics. They use the so called "whole person" scale to judge the applicants. A candidate cannot be accepted unless being well rounded not only academically, but also physically and with respect to extracurriculars. </p>
<p>My opinion on whether the Academy is actually harder than the Ivies? Most definitely. Academically? Most certainly not. It turns out that a lot of schools actually won't accept a lot of credits from West Point when a student transfers, mostly in the sciences (but this is just for the lower level courses). For example, West Point prefers to cover a larger spectrum of Chemistry, so thus doesn't go as in-depth. West Point academics aren't that hard(well, except for math), there's just a lot of WORK, plus you're exposed to a lot of things that are not necessarily your strengths. West Point has a very LARGE amount of required courses, including 2 semesters of a foreign language, 2 years of English, 2 semesters of History, 2 semesters of psychology, 2 years of various math courses, philosophy, american politics, sociology, a required engineering track, 2 semesters of Information Technology (don't be fooled--this translates to programming), 2 semesters of combatives, one round of gymnastics, one round of survival swimming, 4 years of military courses, among others. There's a lot that I'm forgetting.</p>
<p>The average West Point student gets FIVE HOURS of sleep a night--and for me, that's a good night. On top of that we have required duties, mandatory events, mandatory sports, drill, and various other functions. Two hours a day are MANDATORY to participate in sports or in drill, depending on the day. Meals are required except for dinner. My barracks room is not just the room I sleep in. It's my office, and working hours go from 0520 to 2330 (11:00 PM). Anyone can come in at any time. The doors stay unlocked the entire day for inspection. The doors remain completely open from 0730 to 0930. Anyone can come in and touch your stuff, which has to be arranged according to regulations. We oftentimes have training on the weekends, and its extremely hard to get away.</p>
<p>It's impossible to explain to you how stressful West Point is--you'd just have to see it yourself. It challenges you in every single aspect, which I would be prone to say that the Ivies don't. I can't recall that any Ivy League school REQUIRES its students to jump into a wave pool with wind and strobe lights overhead, rain pouring down, wearing 45 pounds worth of weight, a pair of boots, and holding a rifle (yes, that's right, swimming with a rifle). Not fun, extremely frightening. But you know what? I did it. I hated every minute of it, but I did it. And I honestly believe I'm a stronger person for it. The Ivies challenge you academically--West Point challenges me in every way. After all, most Ivy Leaguers aren't preparing to go out and risk their lives to defend others. The thought of catching a bullet on Wall Street would never cross their minds, even as I might be in a firefight on the streets of Baqubah. </p>
<p>Yet, the most stressful part of all comes from something else. How many Ivy Leaguers have to sit at a mandated meal and listen as someone announces the death of one of their friends, one of their classmates, one of their loved ones, over a microphone in the center of the mess hall? You will never, ever know what that feels like--be glad of it. You won't know what the word "duty" entails until you sit there and hear that. You won't know what loyalty is until you see a man with both his legs blown off, walking on prosthetics, having come back to the Academy to take a physical test to see whether he can go back and fight with his unit in Iraq. You just can't know. </p>
<p>I'm sorry if I'm seeming rather somber... My boyfriend's unit has been in Iraq since January, but he's joining them in August because of various schools he's been going to. They were scheduled to be back in December, but their deployment has been extended--and they redeploy in less than a year, in October. He won't be back until halfway into my Firstie year. So excuse me for my sadness... I'm feeling pretty down.</p>
<p>M4Me, I think you expressed yourself well. Hang in there and enjoy CFT next week!! :)</p>
<p>lol... "Enjoy". I'll certainly be enjoying the one extra day of patrolling... :)</p>
<p>Well, at least enjoy your last few days before you go back:)
Daughter is spending her time off running marathons. Last week it was the San Diego Marathon and tomorrow it is an Ultra-Marathon (30 miler) at Big Bear Mountain (abt 8000ft)---ugh!!! Im embarassed to even tell her what I used to do on my time off from college :(</p>