top 15 most prestigious universities

[morrismm]

<p>An interesting thing is how people on CC seem to think that one "top rated " school is significantly better than the other. My D at Cornell and my S at Colgate basically had the identical stats, (SAT totals were the same, although one got higher in math and another higher in verbal, etc. Both were within the middle 50 percent range of the top 10 US News rankings schools in both national and LAC) My second D's stats (starting Bucknell in the fall) were only slightly lower. They all took the same hs advanced classes. They are all three equally intelligent.</p>

<p>My D, who attends Cornell, had a hs classmate accepted/attending MIT and another accepted/attending Stanford. My D had a higher gpa/class standing and SAT than either of them. She got the Byrd scholarship, they did not.</p>

<p>So my point is, there is often very little significant difference between the students at top schools.
morrismm is online now</p>

[Bacchanalia]

<p>

@kyledavid80

"Duke’s resources, admissions, tradition and talent pool are much greater than Stanford’s." That's a joke, right?</p>

<p>Bacchanalia:</p>

<p>You really don't want to do this.

Wait what? I never said that. Did you just make that up?</p>

<p>

@kyledavid80

Reputation and prestige are, in and of themselves, very ephemeral things. Some people will tell you that X is more prestigious than Y, whereas others will say vice versa.</p>

<p>The only truly national universities--ones that are prestigious in every circle, in every region of the country--are Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford. There's so little disputing this, and so little point in doing so. Ask any average Joe on the streets what the other Ivies are and I bet you he'd say Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford. He would most likely leave out the other Ivies and include Stanford, which isn't even an Ivy. I've seen it tons of times.</p>

<p>I have lived in two parts of the country and stayed in many others. In the West, Stanford has immense prestige. I just got back from a vacation in North Carolina--and guess what? It's as prestigious there as it is here. I asked others.</p>

<p>That you say that Stanford's prestige is no better than Penn's, Brown's, etc. really demonstrates your knowledge of this subject.

Prestige is a very fickle concept; the term rolls of the tongue nicely but it's real meaning is highly subjective. Among individuals who are informed about American colleges domestically or internationally, schools like Stanford, Duke, Columbia, etc. are equally highly regarded and respected for the undergraduate education they provide. Among laypersons, I would say Duke and Stanford have an edge over the rest of the non-HYP Ivies because of their prominent athletic programs. HYP are undisputedly the most widely recognized and respected schools in the country by the broadest groups of people. Stanford has equal recognition as them in the West and nowhere else. Duke has equal recognition as them in the South and nowhere else. Notre Dame has equal recognition as them in the Midwest and among Catholics nationwide. After HYP, prestige is mainly geographical. I think we can both agree on that.</p>

<p>

@kyledavid80

I can tell you this: the resources that Stanford offers its undergrads are matched only by--surprise surprise--Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. Why? Because it has the money to. As soon as you can substantiate exactly how Stanford's undergrad is not on par with those you listed, I'll start to take your claims seriously.

False. What resources does Stanford have that Duke, Columbia and Dartmouth can't provide? Please enlighten me. Can Stanford match Duke's incredible focus on service learning? Can Stanford match Columbia's prime location in New York City for political activism and culture? Can Stanford match Dartmouth's tight-knit alumni network which is stronger in Investment Banking/Private Equity/Management Consulting?</p>

<p>Duke and Dartmouth are, for all intents and purposes, primarily undergraduate institutions while Stanford's attention is spread equally among grad and undergrad. The former schools have more faculty resources, better alumni giving, more research grants/study abroad/service learning opportunities, etc.</p>

<p>

@kyledavid80]<br> Other than the fact that Harvard has higher average SAT scores? hahaha</p> <p>[/quote

No, Harvard just has a stronger applicant pool than Stanford on average.</p>

<p> [quote=kyledavid80] Oh, of course. That's why Stanford requires more essays--just so they can make their admissions staff work more, so they have to pay them more, so they have to process more documents which also costs money, etc. Really, where is your logic?

Uhh what's your logic? We can only speculate as to why the Stanford application has more essays than those of its peers. There's no evidence to suggest that Stanford adcoms are getting better insights into the personalities of their applicants than Harvard adcoms just becaue they have more written responses. I think it's rather superfluous.</p>

<p>

@kyledavid80]<br> I for one care about the best facilities and faculties.</p> <p>[/quote

Well, I for one, care more about my job prospects, strength of my peers and the undergraduate focus of my school. It's a good thing that the top schools satisfy all our varied desires right?;)</p>

<p> [quote=wowowow] Wait, i really did not totally read what is happening on this thread but has it turned into Stanford vs Duke. </p>

<p>This is international and US perspective( i have lived in four countries). In three of those countries, no one knew what Duke was... and even if they did , they rarely regarded its academics highly. Stanford, on the other hand, had a solid 'Ivyish' reputation everywhere. While its prestige is not comparable to that of Harvard's, it easily wins out against Duke, IMO. </p>

<p>I have always said.. the difference between 'academics' between a top ranked and a college ranked maybe 15th may not be extremely huge. The same cannot be said for prestige. I agree with one of the above posters when he/she said that Harvard stands on a league of its own ..only with prestige though.

Huh, why did you isolate Duke in this discussion? I brought up other schools like Penn, Dartmouth, Columbia and Brown as well. Internationally, yes, Stanford might have a better academic reputation than some of these elite schools. It's only because of Stanford's math and science slant, which a lot more internationals in places like Asia solely care about. The Bay Area has a very high concentration of Asians and Stanford enrolls a staggering amount of Asian Americans. It's no surprise that Stanford is more known than its peers like Duke and Dartmouth.</p>

<p>Your experience with Duke is the exception, not the norm. Domestically, its reputation is a notch below HYP and it's widely recognized by laypersons and informed individuals alike. Few schools have such a strong name brand nationally besides maybe Vanderbilt and Notre Dame. The good thing about Vandy, ND, Duke, Stanford, WashU, etc. is that they lack the pretentiousness that the Ivies have. A sizeable amount of students that attend these schools have them as their first-choice institutions and are truly passionate about their schools for a variety on reasons. A lot of their students didn't apply to every single Ivy and picked the best one they got into like many Ivy League students.</p>

<p>

@Hawkette

Prestige-whores can argue away and you’ll never agree, but IMO the more important point about Stanford and Duke vs their most elite college competitors is the nature of the undergraduate experience that they offer. Stanford and Duke are the two premier colleges in the USA for top academics, excellent social life, and active and nationally relevant athletic life.

I would add Vanderbilt and Notre Dame to the mix but essentially, I completely agree. Those Ivy League students have no idea what type of fun and social interactions they are missing out on. I wouldn't replace my college experience at Duke for anything. I haven't met another student from my school who doesn't love the place to death.</p>

[datalook]

<p>
[quote]

HYP are undisputedly the most widely recognized and respected schools in the country by the broadest groups of people.

[/quote]

It is only true for H. </p>

<p>Prestige wise, YP are on par with Stanford, MIT, and Caltech for undergraduates from a layman's view. At graduate school level, Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, and MIT are 4 giants that crush every one else.</p>

<p>
[quote]

Can Stanford match Duke's incredible focus on service learning? Can Stanford match Columbia's prime location in New York City for political activism and culture? Can Stanford match Dartmouth's tight-knit alumni network which is stronger in Investment Banking/Private Equity/Management Consulting?

[/quote]

Can HYP match those things you mentioned?</p>

<p>I always think the heart and soul of a university is the faculty. I would like to learn from the smartest, the most creative, and the most achieved professors. When you consider that, Stanford, Berkeley, and MIT crush schools such as Yale, Duke, Penn, and etc, hands down. Overall, only Harvard is on par with them. Princeton and Caltech are on par with them only in some fields. Yale, Duke, Penn, and etc easily get killed by Stanford, Berkeley, and MIT in science and engineering.</p>

<p>Can any of those schools you mentioned match Stanford's huge contribution to modern technology? Can any of those schools match Stanford's prime location: SILICON VALLEY, the world's high tech mega? </p>

<p>According to US-NEWS, Stanford has #1 business school, #1 education school, #2 law school, #2 engineering school, plus a top 10 medical school. Can any university match that? I admit Harvard is on par. But how about Yale, Princeton, Penn, Duke, Vandy, or whatever? Are they even close?</p>

[rd31]

<p>^^ Stanford and Harvard are at the top when it comes to graduate schools, no one's arguing against that.</p>

<p>However, they do not have as great of an undergraduate focus as Y and P.</p>

[idad]

<p>I find these conversations rather amusing. One day not long ago I had lunch with a Stanford valedictorian (and an Oxford Ph.D.) who said the only thing he ever regretted (in his relatively short life, he was 30 something) was that he never attended the University of Chicago. He said he always admired the intellectual curiosity and thinking of the Chicago students with whom he studied or worked, and that they always commanded the greatest respect in academe. I guess prestige is a relative thing that may be difficult to assess, and changes from venue to venue. All of the schools mentioned in this thread are outstanding and attending any of them is as good as attending any of the others, silly arguments of which is better or more prestigious aside.</p>

[danas]

<p>Having spent much of my life as a student at the U of C or working there, I understand idads post.
The University of Chicago is the Marine Corps of higher education. People do not stand on niceties and will box your ears if your argument is weak. This is pretty well pervasive throughout the institution. None of it is personal, but it is tough. Very, very tough.
IMO this is better suited for graduate and professional school students than for undergraduates. Or more accurately, human development is more than academic points. My kids (so far) have chosen schools in the "soft" East.
The right choice, IMO. Still, there are schools that by your acceptance, your ticket is pretty well punched. Not quite the way it ought to be, either. Just an opinion.</p>

[piccolojunior]

<p>Wow...comparing Duke to Stanford in terms of prestige?</p>

<p>I think Stanford pretty much destroyed any sort of comparison in 2004 when the basketball team started the season 28-0 or something like that, with that dude hitting a half-court shot to win the game (and Tiger Woods + everyone else rushing the court)...oh and that reminds me, Tiger Woods is reason enough that Stanford prestige destroys Duke's.</p>

[kyledavid80]

<p>
[quote]
Wait what? I never said that. Did you just make that up?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Er, I was quoting someone else… notice I didn’t address you until after.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Stanford has equal recognition as them in the West and nowhere else.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think we can agree to disagree.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Duke has equal recognition as them in the South and nowhere else.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think we can agree to disagree on that one too. (Duke has immense prestige in the South, but even there, it isn’t on the level of HYPS.)</p>

<p>
[quote]
After HYP, prestige is mainly geographical. I think we can both agree on that.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I’d say after HYPS, yes.</p>

<p>
[quote]
What resources does Stanford have that Duke, Columbia and Dartmouth can't provide? Please enlighten me.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Do you honestly think that they will be able to lavish their students in what HYPS do? Their endowment per student is far greater. Just some things that come to mind: if you want a language that isn’t taught and you put a request in, they will find an instructor; their library holdings are typically greater; you’re typically assigned more advisers; classes may be somewhat smaller, depending on the school; the facilities are much better—Duke, Columbia, and Dartmouth don’t even have the facilities that I would be interested in; HYPS have the money to make the facilities if they aren’t present; HYPS are much more willing to throw money at their undergrads for research, projects, study abroad (Stanford’s Bing program is of especial note); and more. Of course, not all of these matter to all students.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Can Stanford match Duke's incredible focus on service learning?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>“Service learning”? What do you mean, community service integrated with learning? Stanford has an amazing resource for that:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Logging more than 96,000 volunteer hours, over 3,000 Stanford students engage in many public and community service outreach initiatives each year. Above all Stanford scholars believe that service informs scholarship and vice versa. The Haas Center for Public Service serves as a central resource for service opportunities, a national model for the integration of academic and service activities offering more than 600 volunteer, internship and research opportunities.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Welcome</a> to Haas Center for Public Service: Stanford, CA.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Can Stanford match Columbia's prime location in New York City for political activism and culture?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Can Columbia match Stanford’s prime location in Silicon Valley, perhaps one of the most important places in the world right now for technology and innovation? Not to mention the whole Bay Area, which is teeming with culture (you want activism? Stanford has plenty of it; you want more of it? Try Berkeley and San Francisco).</p>

<p>
[quote]
Can Stanford match Dartmouth's tight-knit alumni network which is stronger in Investment Banking/Private Equity/Management Consulting?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>How are you supposed to measure the “tight-knit”-edness of an alumni network? FWIW, Stanford raised more in donations last year than any other university—with nearly $1 billion, a few hundred million above Harvard’s.</p>

<p>
[quote]

Duke and Dartmouth are, for all intents and purposes, primarily undergraduate institutions while Stanford's attention is spread equally among grad and undergrad.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It’s really dependent on the financial resources of the school. If there are enough of them, a school can be as undergrad-focused as others while also maintaining a top grad school. Perfect case: Princeton. It has the financial resources to offer an undergrad focus, but also has many top grad programs. The same can be said of Stanford. You, like so many before you, fall prey to the common misconception that undergrad quality can only come if there is a weak grad school. That is not true.</p>

<p>
[quote]
No, Harvard just has a stronger applicant pool than Stanford on average.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>How about you provide a source for that? (I might even guess that Harvard’s is on the whole weaker than Stanford’s. Why? Because everyone and their mom apply to Harvard. Typically, as an applicant pool grows larger, the self-selectivity goes down, and so does the average quality. This same theme happens in all aspects of life—applicants to a job, AP test takers, and more. Of course, I have no source to substantiate that Harvard’s is weaker. And I won’t pretend to by making a bold claim like that without qualifying it and putting a disclaimer.)</p>

<p>
[quote]
Uhh what's your logic? We can only speculate as to why the Stanford application has more essays than those of its peers.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I wasn’t so much speculating as to why Stanford does that (even though I have an idea), but rather pointing out the nonsensical nature of your comment. Honestly, do you think that those essays serve no purpose? If they did, don’t you think Stanford would have eliminated them a long time ago? But it hasn’t. It still has the roommate essay, the intellectual vitality essay, and recently added the “why Stanford” essay (it used to have an activity essay, but that was removed when it switched to the Common App). Stanford has had these essays for at least ten years:</p>

<p>[9801fea500.shtml[/url</a>]</p>

<p>
[quote]
There's no evidence to suggest that Stanford adcoms are getting better insights into the personalities of their applicants than Harvard adcoms just becaue they have more written responses.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And there’s no evidence to suggest that they don’t. (See, it works two ways.)</p>

<p>
[quote]
I think it's rather superfluous.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, I don’t think so.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Well, I for one, care more about my job prospects, strength of my peers and the undergraduate focus of my school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You honestly think that it’s going to be that different at Stanford than at HYP? What?</p>

<p>
[quote]
It's only because of Stanford's math and science slant, which a lot more internationals in places like Asia solely care about.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>How about a source for that?</p>

<p>I’d say it’s internationally recognized, not just in Asia, because of its top research across every field.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The Bay Area has a very high concentration of Asians and Stanford enrolls a staggering amount of Asian Americans.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>"Staggering"? 24% isn't "staggering." According to this, Duke has about the same percent (23%) as Stanford (24%):</p>

<p>[url=<a href="http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?match=true&collegeId=535&searchType=college&type=qfs&word=duke%5DCollege"&gt;http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?match=true&collegeId=535&searchType=college&type=qfs&word=duke]College&lt;/a> Search - Duke University - Duke - At a Glance](<a href="http://news-service.stanford.edu/stanfordtoday/ed/9801/9801fea5.html%5D9801fea500.shtml%5B/url"&gt;http://news-service.stanford.edu/stanfordtoday/ed/9801/9801fea5.html)&lt;/p>

<p>Harvard and Yale aren't too far behind, either. And what does it matter how many Asians there are at Stanford? They’re mostly born, or at least raised, here.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Your experience with Duke is the exception, not the norm. Domestically, its reputation is a notch below HYP and it's widely recognized by laypersons and informed individuals alike. Few schools have such a strong name brand nationally besides maybe Vanderbilt and Notre Dame.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Now you’re contradicting yourself. You just said that beyond HYP, it’s all regional. And then you say “strong brand name nationally”? Not to mention the next school you mention is Vanderbilt? What? Vanderbilt doesn’t have even the level of reputation that Duke does (in all my time on this site and others, I’ve never even heard Vandy-supporters try to claim that). And Duke isn’t just one notch below HYPS; it’s a few notches, but it’s still up there. Notre Dame has recognition for its sports.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I wouldn't replace my college experience at Duke for anything. I haven't met another student from my school who doesn't love the place to death.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Ah, so you’re a Duke student. That explains how the conversation switched over to Duke, and why your claims are particularly bold.</p>

[Brown_man1987]

<p>
[quote]
Ah, so you’re a Duke student. That explains how the conversation switched over to Duke, and why your claims are particularly bold.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Why is it that every other week I come on here, I always see a Duke student or alum trying to convince the rest of CC that it is on par with Harvard, Yale, Stanford, or Princeton (or the best thing after them)? I mean I only see alums and students from Duke doing this. This happens, and we always end up in a gigantic debate of Duke VS. [Insert School Here]</p>

<p>I mean even the Duke school newspaper had an article comparing itself to the Ivy League, and trying to affirm that it's caliber was among the middle of the Ivies.</p>

<p>Inferiority complex much?</p>

[kyledavid80]

<p>^^ I get the same feeling. I don't even see the same from Berkeley fans. (At least they admit Berkeley isn't as prestigious as Stanford, or the same in resources per student.)</p>

[xsnalex]

<p>Just my opinion....</p>

<p>Harvard
Yale
Stanford
Brown
Columbia
Dartmouth
Rice
UPenn
Cornell
Georgetown
Duke
John hopkins
Princeton
University of chicago
NYU</p>

<p>Edited; no specific order.</p>

[kyledavid80]

<p>^^ forget Princeton?</p>

[xsnalex]

<p>Kyle David; Yea i forgot princeton, lol I'm from NJ too, shame on me</p>

<p>= /</p>

<p>Princeton would replace Notre dame, even though i love Notre Dame i think it's an awesome school</p>

[Alexandre]

<p>A slightly difference take.</p>

<p>PRIVATE UNIVERSITIES:
Harvard University</p>

<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Princeton University
Stanford University
Yale University</p>

<p>Brown University
California Institute of Technology
Columbia University
Cornell University
Dartmouth College
Duke University
Johns Hopkins University
Northwestern University
University of Chicago
University of Pennsylvania</p>

<p>Honorable mention:
Carnegie Mellon University
Emory University
Georgetown University
New York University
Rice University
University of Notre Dame
University of Southern California
Vanderbilt University
Washington University</p>

<p>LACs:
Amherst College
Swarthmore College
Williams College</p>

<p>Bowdoin College
Carleton College
Claremont McKenna College
Colgate University
Davidson College
Grinnell College
Harvey Mudd College
Haverford College
Middlebury College
Pomona college
Wellesley College
Wesleyan University</p>

<p>Honorable Mention:
Barnard College
Bates College
Bryn Mawr College
Colby College
Macalester College
Oberlin College
Reed College
Smith College
Vassar College
United States Military Academy
United States Naval Academy
Washington & Lee University</p>

<p>PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES:
University of California-Berkeley</p>

<p>University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Virginia
University of California-Los Angeles</p>

<p>University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
University of Texas-Austin
University of Wisconsin-Madison</p>

<p>College of William and Mary
Georgia Institute of Technology
University of California-San Diego
University of Washington</p>

[animefreakss4]

<p>Very nice Alexandre</p>

[danielhstennis08]

<p>i agree with your rankings, alexandre... best ones i've seen yet</p>

[Bacchanalia]

<p>

@datalook

It is only true for H. </p>

<p>Prestige wise, YP are on par with Stanford, MIT, and Caltech for undergraduates from a layman's view. At graduate school level, Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, and MIT are 4 giants that crush every one else.

Haha, I would love to meet the laymen you are apparently meeting who hold MIT and Caltech in such a high regard. Most regular folk I know haven't even heard of these two schools. Heck, even some EDUCATED people I know haven't heard of Caltech. That doesn't make these schools any less fantastic though. Although, I would argue that Caltech is more of a niche school than the other places. MIT has terrific humanities departments as well.</p>

<p>Look, Harvard and Yale are the two most prestigious universities arguably on earth and most definitely in this country. Princeton's reputation might be more variable but in general, it is the 3rd most recognized school in the country. The remaining schools like Stanford, Caltech, Dartmouth, Columbia, Duke, Penn, etc. hold mainly regional appeal.</p>

<p>

@piccolojunior

Wow...comparing Duke to Stanford in terms of prestige?</p>

<p>I think Stanford pretty much destroyed any sort of comparison in 2004 when the basketball team started the season 28-0 or something like that, with that dude hitting a half-court shot to win the game (and Tiger Woods + everyone else rushing the court)

Do you honestly want to debate Stanford vs. Duke Basketball?
ESPN</a> - Counting down the most prestigious programs since 1984-85 - Men's College Basketball
Please save yourself the embarassment.</p>

<p>

@kyledavid80

I’d say after HYPS, yes.

HYPS? That's a misnomer. Stanford's undergraduate reputation and prestige is not on par with HYP. It's an amazing school and arguably the most well-rounded institution in the country, but in no part of the country besides the West and no part of the world besides Asia is its name as powerful as those of HYP. I have lived in various parts of the country and the world(Midwest, South, Australia, Singapore, Middle East, England). In none of those places is Stanford's reputation on par with HYP's. It is viewed as an excellent school among educated folk worldwide, one that is the same calibre as places like Columbia and Penn. By the way, Stanford's reputation does not exceed that of Duke's in the South. Based on my experiences, that's a false assertion. Your mileage may vary of course.</p>

<p>

@kyledavid80

Do you honestly think that they will be able to lavish their students in what HYPS do? Their endowment per student is far greater. Just some things that come to mind: if you want a language that isn’t taught and you put a request in, they will find an instructor; their library holdings are typically greater; you’re typically assigned more advisers; classes may be somewhat smaller, depending on the school; the facilities are much better—Duke, Columbia, and Dartmouth don’t even have the facilities that I would be interested in; HYPS have the money to make the facilities if they aren’t present; HYPS are much more willing to throw money at their undergrads for research, projects, study abroad (Stanford’s Bing program is of especial note); and more. Of course, not all of these matter to all students.

It's funny you say that because all of those three schools(Duke, Columbia and Dartmouth) can do all those things you just mentioned. It's important to mention that at the undergrad level you're not going to be doing any cutting-edge research or get involved with serious scientific innovation. You're going to be learning the basics and it's important to have professors that are dedicated to teaching undergrads, small class sizes and relevant study abroad opportunities. I don't think any schools in the country besides Yale and Princeton can seriously compete with a place like Dartmouth with regards to focus on undergraduate education.</p>

<p>

@kyledavid80

Can Columbia match Stanford’s prime location in Silicon Valley, perhaps one of the most important places in the world right now for technology and innovation? Not to mention the whole Bay Area, which is teeming with culture (you want activism? Stanford has plenty of it; you want more of it? Try Berkeley and San Francisco).

Different strokes, different folks. Stanford's location works for some and not for others. Please don't humor me by pretending Stanford's campus and the surrounding Palo Alto area is as politically charged as NYC. The most common complaint launched against "The Farm" is that it resembles a country club where its students are locked in a bubble and are somewhat apathetic towards the political issues of the day. The same can be said of Duke's student body to an extent unfortunately.</p>

<p>

@kyledavid80]<br> You honestly think that it’s going to be that different at Stanford than at HYP? What?</p> <p>[/quote]</p> <p>Yep.</p></p> <p><p><br> [quote=kyledavid80

Now you’re contradicting yourself. You just said that beyond HYP, it’s all regional. And then you say “strong brand name nationally”? Not to mention the next school you mention is Vanderbilt? What? Vanderbilt doesn’t have even the level of reputation that Duke does (in all my time on this site and others, I’ve never even heard Vandy-supporters try to claim that). And Duke isn’t just one notch below HYPS; it’s a few notches, but it’s still up there. Notre Dame has recognition for its sports.

Ok, Vandy is definitely a stretch. Duke is not several notches worse than Stanford with regards to undergraduate education. That's laughable. You can't honestly tell me that you're parsing between the minute differences in quality between the top schools that closely. HYP are the three best schools and the other Ivies(besides maybe Cornell) and Stanford, Wash U, UChicago and Duke are equally great after that.</p>

<p>

@Brown man1987

Why is it that every other week I come on here, I always see a Duke student or alum trying to convince the rest of CC that it is on par with Harvard, Yale, Stanford, or Princeton (or the best thing after them)? I mean I only see alums and students from Duke doing this. This happens, and we always end up in a gigantic debate of Duke VS. [Insert School Here]</p>

<p>I mean even the Duke school newspaper had an article comparing itself to the Ivy League, and trying to affirm that it's caliber was among the middle of the Ivies.</p>

<p>Inferiority complex much?

It's hard to have an inferiority complex when you're already a top 10 school. I haven't seen anyone in real life compare Duke to HYP or state that it wasn't among the batch of schools immediately after it. Please don't stereotype an entire school based on some of your isolated experiences. Duke's caliber is among the middle Ivies. How does that constitute an inferiority complex?</p>

[kyledavid80]

<p>As always, Alexandre's list is moderate, fair, and level-headed. I agree with those divisions.</p>

[Bacchanalia]

<p>I think Stanford and MIT belong in the second group and that UMich, UVA, UNC and UCLA are peers of Cal. Other than that though, that list looks great!</p>

[kyledavid80]

<p>
[quote]
Haha, I would love to meet the laymen you are apparently meeting who hold MIT and Caltech in such a high regard. Most regular folk I know haven't even heard of these two schools.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I can see such a claim about Caltech, but MIT? What “regular folk” do you know? Australian ones?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Heck, even some EDUCATED people I know haven't heard of Caltech.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Where educated means… at Podunk State?</p>

<p>
[quote]
MIT has terrific humanities departments as well.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I haven’t heard anyone, even MIT people, say that MIT has “terrific humanities departments.” (The social sciences, a few—but humanities? No.)</p>

<p>
[quote]
Look, Harvard and Yale are the two most prestigious universities arguably on earth and most definitely in this country

[/quote]
</p>

<p>If you include Yale, you might as well bring Princeton and Stanford, too. And in the entire world? Stanford and MIT (even Berkeley) probably beat Yale there.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The remaining schools like Stanford, Caltech, Dartmouth, Columbia, Duke, Penn, etc. hold mainly regional appeal.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Keep on repeating it—it doesn’t make Stanford’s prestige regional as it is for the others.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Do you honestly want to debate Stanford vs. Duke Basketball?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Why just basketball? Wasn’t Stanford #1 in the Director’s Cup for overall athletic excellence (for the 14th year in a row)?</p>

<p>
[quote]
It's funny you say that because all of those three schools(Duke, Columbia and Dartmouth) can do all those things you just mentioned.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>HYPS happens to do them better; that was the point of words such as “greater,” “more” “smaller,” “better,” and the like.</p>

<p>
[quote]
It's important to mention that at the undergrad level you're not going to be doing any cutting-edge research or get involved with serious scientific innovation.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Highly disagreed. Duke may be weak for undergrad and not be nearly on the level of Stanford et al for research, but undergrads at HYPS (especially H and S) can get heavily involved in cutting-edge research.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I don't think any schools in the country besides Yale and Princeton can seriously compete with a place like Dartmouth with regards to focus on undergraduate education.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Dartmouth’s focus on undergrad is overstated. That seems to be another stereotype that you fall prey to.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Stanford's location works for some and not for others.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The same can be said of New York. (I personally would hate to go to college in NYC.)</p>

<p>
[quote]
Please don't humor me by pretending Stanford's campus and the surrounding Palo Alto area is as politically charged as NYC.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I wasn’t saying it was. I’m saying there’s lots of activism on Stanford’s campus. If you want even more, the Bay Area offers that too.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The most common complaint launched against "The Farm" is that it resembles a country club where its students are locked in a bubble and are somewhat apathetic towards the political issues of the day.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And the most common complaint against Duke is that it resembles the remnants of racist plantations, with sexist affairs thrown in.</p>

<p>See how effective such a statement of stereotype was? (Generally, you don’t want to try to use stereotypes to prove your point—Speech and Debate 101, sorry.)</p>

<p>
[quote]
Duke is not several notches worse than Stanford with regards to undergraduate education. That's laughable.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Er, I was talking about reputation, as was evident since I was replying to your comment that “domestically, [Duke’s] reputation is a notch below HYP,” which is really what’s laughable.</p>

<p>
[quote]
HYP are the three best schools and the other Ivies(besides maybe Cornell) and Stanford, Wash U, UChicago and Duke are equally great after that.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You can keep telling yourself that Duke is as great as Stanford. :)</p>

<p>
[quote]
It's hard to have an inferiority complex when you're already a top 10 school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>But when that school wants to be in a top 5 school… well, you can see where the inferiority complex comes in.</p>