<p>Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, MIT, Penn, Dartmouth, Columbia, Brown, Cornell, Duke, Georgetown, Amherst, Chicago and Berkeley.</p>
<p>oh wait, replace Berkeley with Cal Tech</p>
<p>15 is too limited a number. </p>
<p>The BIG 5 (they transcend all university types):
Harvard University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Princeton University
Stanford University
Yale University</p>
<p>Those 5 universities are clearly top 15 in terms of reputation and academic excellence and most people will include those 5 universities in their top 15 list.</p>
<p>However, after those 5 universities, things get a lot murkier. I feel that there are three types of universities that qualify, and depending on one's definition of the ideal university, the 10 that will complete a person's list of the 15 most prestigious universities will vary. All 15 of those universities below has a legitimate claim at the remaining 10 spots.</p>
<p>THE GREAT RESEARCH UNIVERSITIES:
California Institute of Technology
Columbia University
Cornell University
Duke University
Johns Hopkins University
Northwestern University
University of California-Berkeley
University of Chicago
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Pennsylvania</p>
<p>THE GREAT LAC-LIKE RESEARCH UNIVERSITIES:
Brown University
Dartmouth College</p>
<p>THE GREAT LACs:
Amherst College
Swarthmore College
Williams College</p>
<p>The US is a large country with many excellent colleges and universities. I'd say the schools above make up only a small fraction of the great universities scattered around the country.</p>
<p>HONORABLE MENTION:
Bowdoin College
Carleton College
Claremont McKenna College
Emory University
Georgetown University
Grinnell College
Haverford College
Middlebury College
Oberlin College
Pomona College
Rice University
University of California-Los Angeles
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
University of Notre Dame
University of Texas-Austin
University of Virginia
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Vanderbilt University
Washington University
Wesleyan University</p>
<p>if only for prestigious
1.harvard
2.yale
3.stanford
4.mit
5.princeton
6.ucb
6.ucla
8.upenn
9.nyu
10.columbia
11.brown
12.dartmouth
13.johns hopkins
14.caltech
15.u chicago</p>
<p>this is my thought as a foreigner's view. honesly back in my country,lots of people dont know the caltech.</p>
<p>I feel that way about my hometown sometime, and it's in southern California!</p>
<p>"THE GREAT RESEARCH UNIVERSITIES:
California Institute of Technology
Columbia University
Cornell University
Duke University
Johns Hopkins University
Northwestern University
University of California-Berkeley
University of Chicago
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Pennsylvania"</p>
<p>Nobody thinks Umich is on par with these schools for Ugrad. AT the most it will fit with your honorable mentions. Besides, what happened to your previous list?</p>
<p>"THE GREAT RESEARCH UNIVERSITIES:
California Institute of Technology
Columbia University
Cornell University
Duke University
Johns Hopkins University
Northwestern University
University of California-Berkeley
University of Chicago
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Pennsylvania"</p>
<p>ACA, since Michigan's undergraduate academic rating is 4.5, tied with Penn and Duke and above Brown, Dartmouth and Northwestern, then clearly, most professors and undergraduate deans of universities would agree that Michigan belongs on that list. But what the hell, if we can agree on 16 out of 17 universities, that's not bad. Personally, I see no difference between the top 17 and the honorable mention. Like I said, in a country as large as the US, many universities deserve recognition. </p>
<p>And what do you mean by "what happened to your previous list"? My list has never changed. I have always maintained that there are 17 universities that deserve top 10 recognition. Those 17 have never changed.</p>
<p>THIS IS WHERE BEST AND BRIGHTEST GO:</p>
<p>hARVARD
pRINCETON
yALE
pENN
cOLUMBIA
bROWN
mit
ucb
dARTMOUTH
dUKE
cORNELL
umICH
sTANFURD
cAL TECH
jhu
nwu</p>
<p>I agree with your claim that the top 17 and the honorable mentions overlap in many areas and should all be considered top schools. I also agree that academic rating and peer assessment are important, but so is selectivity and acceptance rates. With price being equal, I'm pretty sure most applicants (don't know exact yield) would choose Penn/Duke/Brown/dartmouth/Northwestern/Uchicago over Umich undergraduate. </p>
<p>As for your list, I was wondering why the change from what you posted on the 2nd page to this page.</p>
<p>PS: I do agree now that UVA and Umich are quite similar in academics and the such, their main difference being the acceptance rate.</p>
<p>Yea...my list is the best.</p>
<p>ACA, we are talking about academic reputation and prestige...not selectivity. This thread isn't about the 15 most selective universities, it is about the 15 universities with the best reputation scores. In the real world (in the world of leading intellectuals and professionals), that means the universities with the top ranked programs, the best faculties and the best curricula. Michigan is ranked in the top 10 in 90% of the major fields of study and in the top 20 in 99% of the major fields of study. Only Cornell and Cal have similar academic versitility. Now don't get me wrong, a couple of universities are so selective, that just getting admitted is "prestigious". All in all, I'd say there are 6 such universities. They are Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Stanford, Yale and Caltech. Other very selective schools like Brown and Chicago and Cornell are very selective too mind you, just not selective enough to make them prestigious. Nobody looks at a Johns Hopkins or Northwestern or Cornell student and say "wow...you must be a genius!". What makes Brown, Chicago, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins and Cornell prestigious is their academic superiority...not their selectivity.</p>
<p>As far as my initial list and my last list, they are identical. I have 17 universities in my list in page 2 and those same 17 universities + 3 LACs in the last list. All I did was add 3 colleges to my LAC section and divide the universities into LAC-like universities and research universities.</p>
<p>I disagree completely Alexandre, when I hear someone goes to Brown I do think they are incredibly smart, even a "genius". Brown/ Dartmouth/ Columbia/ Amherst/ Penn kids are basically often waitlisted at HYPS or chose to go there ED. Our two 1600s went to Amherst and Brown. In my high school the Michigan kids weren't even close, often not even in the same classes. Being a Dartmouth alum I can tell you in life I have gotten "WOW" ten times for every "where's that." Its because of the selectivity, not the grad schools. Maybe I hang out in eduacated circles though (northeast). If a kid comes to me from Michigan with a 3.8 I am going to think they are also incredibly intelligent, but I am not giving the average michigan student that benefit, especially compared to the "lower Ivies." Sure they are very smart, but not Ivy. </p>
<p>Saying there isn't a prestige based on selectivity between Brown and Michigan is patently false. There is far greater a difference between your average Michigan/ UCLA student and Brown student than there is between a Brown student and a Harvard student.</p>
<p>Duke Stanford UChicago :)</p>
<p>Are you so sure Slipper? Do you know that if Michigan listed their mean SAT scores as the Ivies do, the Michigan mid 50% SAT range would be 1280-1450? Brown's mid-50% SAT score is 1300-1500...Harvard's is 1400-1590. I'd say Michigan students are fairly similar to Brown students and both are far behind Harvard students. Mean unweighed GPAs and class ranks are pretty much identical between Michigan and Brown students. Furthermore, I have known my Ivy Leaguers who did their graduate studies at Michigan and they mostly agree that the average Michigan undergraduate student is on par with the average Ivy League undergraduate student. Given my exposure to both Michigan and Ivy league students, I tend to agree. </p>
<p>Finally, I hope you don;t judge people based on where they studied. That would be pretty shallow.</p>
<p>Where did you get those Michigan numbers they seem high to me. Also, Michigan (not fault - states schools all do this) is much less focused on ECs (stat based). Brown could fill its students with top scorers. Finally Princeton and Stanford's SAT scores are annually only 10-20 points above Dartmouth's for example...is that a big enough difference to lump Princeton in the "untouchable" category yet lump Dartmouth with Michigan? Dartmouth's scores are about 100pts above Michigans, which in my opinion IS significant. There is a difference between a 1350 and a 1450.</p>
<p>Also make sure you do not confuse enrolled vs admitted.</p>
<p>Brown's enrolled (matriculating) incoming freshman class may have avg SAT's in the 1400's but Michian's enrolled class may only have SAT's in the 1330s (as the 1500 acceptees may choose Ivy Leagues instead).</p>
<p>I mean even Wake Forest has avg SAT's in the 1300+s.</p>
<p>from my experience with Michigan and Ivy students I agree with Slipper on this one. but term "lower Ivy" let's get rid of it already.</p>
<p>A past president of Harvard made the statement that a student who scored about 650 on the verbal SAT could do just fine at Harvard. I'm not aware of any evidence that SAT scores matter all that much once one gets past the 1300 (now 1950) range.</p>
<p>Alexandre-</p>
<p>I believe Michigan is one of the top 15 "Universities" (undergrad + grad programs). I also believe a top student can get as much out of Michigan as from the top schools. I disagree that there isn't a substantial selectivity difference between a place like Michigan and a place like Brown. You can assume almost any Brown grad is absolutely top notch academically, you can't assume the same about Michigan.</p>
<p>These "prestige" threads are like the changing of the seasons, although they come in many variations, one thing is certain - they come around like clockwork...</p>
<p>Alexandre vs. Slipper (or me) - a.k.a. Mich vs. the so-called "lower" Ivies - it's the same old song - you're not going to convince the other that you are right.</p>
<p>On one hand, a very simple argument can be made that the quality of the actual education a student may receive at any given university (as long as we are talking about the Top Unis) is truly up to the individual student.</p>
<p>But when we are talking about "street credibility" to put it in the "parlance of our times" (a small shout out to the Big Lebowski) - let's keep it real - the so-called "lower" Ivies vs. Mich is kind of a no-brainer.</p>
<p>Given an absolute "free" choice (and leveling things such as cost of tuition) - i.e. say a student has a choice of taking a total "free ride" at Michigan vs. Brown / Dartmouth / Cornell / Penn / Columbia - how many out of 100 would really choose Michigan?</p>
<p>Again, the point here is not to cut down Michigan - the point is that the term "lower" Ivy is a contradiction in terms - the point is that the incredible reputations of B / D / C / C / P are absolutely well deserved - with a much lower variance of quality (student and faculty) vs. , say, Michigan.</p>