<p>Has anyone seen this? NE schools include Hotchkiss, Exeter, Middlesex, Choate and Noble. Re HADES, 3/5 did not make the cut.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1610008-trying-to-get-into-uc-s-help.html?new=1”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1610008-trying-to-get-into-uc-s-help.html?new=1</a></p>
<p>I put a whole 15 minutes into this reply on the other thread. I might as well recycle it:</p>
<p>
<a href=“25 High schools with the highest standardized test scores - Parents Forum - College Confidential Forums”>25 High schools with the highest standardized test scores - Parents Forum - College Confidential Forums;
<p>Although they claim “at least 100 students” had to submit scores, many of these listings were based on fewer than 100 self-submitted SAT scores. Who submits SAT scores to a website? The kids who are proud of their scores? And how does Niche know that the submitters didn’t exaggerate their scores a wee bit?</p>
<p>I’ll add Choate to the list. Mean SAT 2025, according to Choate’s college profile for the class of 2013 (245 students took the SAT): <a href=“http://www.choate.edu/data/files/gallery/ContentGallery/College_Profile1314.pdf[/url]”>http://www.choate.edu/data/files/gallery/ContentGallery/College_Profile1314.pdf</a> </p>
<p>Niche, 2060, based on 117 students.</p>
<p>For the ACT, Niche claims the ACT score is: 32 (composite) 32 M, 31 V, 33 R, 33 SR (from 36 students)</p>
<p>Scores from Choate’s website: 28.5 (composite), 28.7 (M), 29.5 V, 29 R, 26.7 SR (138 took the ACT)</p>
<p>^^^^^^ this</p>
<p>When can we finally be done with rankings? I’ve never seen any that weren’t useless.</p>
<p>^The USNews Rankings have been useful for me in convincing my Dad to let me apply to colleges that he’s “never heard of” (think Duke, WashU, Chicago). </p>
<p>There will always be lists and in most cases the data is flawed in some way. It doesn’t bother me. It IS an updated point worth consideration, even though the data may be self-reported. Concord Academy didn’t make the list either, talked about before on this board. Data worth throwing into the mix.</p>
<p>Made up stuff is not data. </p>
<p>From their website, Concord Academy’s SAT for the class of 2013 is 2042.</p>
<p>Andover’s is 2037.</p>
<p>University of Chicago Laboratory Schools is 2020.</p>
<p>Roxbury Latin’s is 2240.</p>
<p>Andover is 2079 for class 2013. Too low IMO but still</p>
<p>I get why people like to rank or post a list. It feels good when your child’s school makes the list. It does make me wonder if it’s some crazy form of validation sometimes … but okay. Whatever floats your boat- Sing it from the rooftop. I just don’t find ranking or the term HADES helpful- especially when (everyone knows) you can’t go wrong at a top 30 boarding school and your life certainly won’t be ruined if you attend a top 70 University/ College. There’s so many fantastic opportunities out there (BS and College) . Kids need to feel free to explore them all without a “List” hanging over their head. Sometimes it’s not the data that’s flawed- it’s the attitude… </p>
<p>Benley, do you have a link for that number? The most recent school profile on Andover’s website lists a mean of 2037 for the class of 2013. <a href=“http://www.andover.edu/Academics/CollegeCounseling/Documents/PhillipsAcademySchoolProfile2013-2014.pdf[/url]”>http://www.andover.edu/Academics/CollegeCounseling/Documents/PhillipsAcademySchoolProfile2013-2014.pdf</a></p>
<p>Compare Andover’s scores to Lexington High School’s: <a href=“Lexington Public Schools – Lexington, MA”>Lexington Public Schools – Lexington, MA;
<p>Lexington’s a large public high school not far from Cambridge, Massachusetts. It’s about twice the size of PA. Lexington’s mean SAT is 1903. And yet, Lexington’s mean SAT includes ~60 students who scored under 500 on the Critical Reading portion of the SAT. (Andover had 1 or 2). </p>
<p>As Lexington is twice the size of Andover, it has more students who scored above 700 in each category. It also has more students who scored above 600 in each category (CR,M,W.) </p>
<p>Andover’s student body is more homogeneously high-scoring. Lexington, however, has more than enough students to provide a bright kid many intelligent peers. Andover had 27 National Merit Semifinalists; Lexington had 23.</p>
<p>They are both great schools, known for being intellectually demanding. Ranking schools by SAT scores has real problems, though. Such an approach rewards schools for enrolling a narrow band of students who test well. It doesn’t say much about the rigor of the education offered. </p>
<p>It’s interesting to note that Andover’s average SAT subject test scores (Which might reflect a high school’s academics) are also not significantly above the national average, either. </p>
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<p>Sorry for the multiple posts–getting used to the new system. I do like that it saves automatically.</p>
<p>Anyways, MBVLoveless, the SAT subject tests are more often taken by students applying to selective colleges, aren’t they? So the national average reflects the students considering applying to selective colleges. </p>
<p>1,660,047 college seniors took the SAT in the class of 2013; mean of 1498.
251,304 college seniors took the SAT subject tests; of those students, the seniors who took the SAT as well had a group mean of 1876 on the SAT. </p>
<p>Yeah, but considering that Andover boasts a student body composed of the best of the best, it seems strange that some Andover students presumably score sub-600 in, for example, the SAT USH (to get a 650 average, since I’m sure there are plenty of Andover kids scoring high 700/800 on the test). </p>
<p>Factor in that students usually take the tests in the subjects they’re best at…It’s reasonable to assume that the best of the best will score highly in the subjects they’re best at, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. </p>
<p>@Periwinkle: The SAT stats on the school profile are of class 2012. The class '13 mean SAT scores are cited here: <a href=“http://www.andover.edu/About/Pages/FastFacts.aspx”>http://www.andover.edu/About/Pages/FastFacts.aspx</a>. I agree that schools like Andover do not and will not likely to take kids with good standardized test scores only if it means that would jeopardize their mission for a diversified student body. However, my suspicion (just that) is that the students could do better on standardized tests if they work a little harder during breaks to be more ready for these tests. </p>
<p>@MBV: What Periwinkle said… I personally am never impressed by the <em>mean</em> scores of Andover’s standardized tests. It is a group of kids from diverse background and have different strengths, and not everyone cares for or is good at scoring high on standardized tests.</p>
<p>The power of lists to make a person feel special is extraordinary. I used to read with dread the “Best Of” lists and hope that my favorite restaurant didn’t make it. I don’t like it when the quantitative gets out of kilter with the qualitative. </p>
<p>MBVLoveless, does PA “teach to the test” for SAT II subject tests? I don’t care how bright you are, you won’t know facts you haven’t been taught. This is why test scores tend to rise over time, as teachers learn what areas are covered by any specific test. The AP and the SAT II tests cover different things. In public schools, often the pre-AP honors courses are aligned with the SAT II subject test. </p>
<p>Achievement tests don’t measure your innate ability, nor your work ethic. They measure what you’ve been taught. “Students usually take the tests in the subjects they’re best at,” well, but the top colleges often suggest tests from different areas, don’t they? For example, the history expert must take a math or science SAT II, and the math/science expert might take a test in the humanities, depending on the colleges they apply to. </p>
<p>Benley, do students at Andover get many breaks? I haven’t run into many prep school kids who complain about free time. I don’t even know how useful the SAT II tests are for the selective colleges, as some of the tests have very strange score distributions. An 800 on Math II is the 85th percentile. An 800 on Physics is the 90th percentile. Chemistry, 91st percentile. Is that helpful to distinguish between candidates in the top 10% of ability?</p>
<p>Periwinkle, idk. They do have a long summer and several other breaks like all other prep school kids. To be honest , I am on the fence on this issue. What you said makes sense that these scores are not a differencing factor, not as much as doing well in a rigorous curriculum by a long shot. On the other hand, it’s hard to argue that you are a top student when you score mid 600’s in a supposedly easy test. As for the impact to college admission, I doubt it but am curious to see if a significant increase in standardized tests would make a difference for Andover students.</p>