<p>i know some people whose lives are revolved around getting into a top college like harvard, and if they dont get in its like the world is over. I dont understand why so many people want to go to these schools that have low acceptance rates when there are so many other good schools out there that are easier to get into with equally good education. also, some kids that moved here from other countries have parents that are going to use all of their money and go into debt just so their kids can go to a top school. I think this is absurd because then they will probably spend the majority of their life paying off that debt when they can easily go to a state school for much cheaper and get really good grades there, since state schools are easier than top schools. this will make it easier for them to get internships, since they care about your gpa more than they care about what school you went to. but if you parents are ballers and have like 3 bmws and a gigantic house, yeah i can understand blowing 150-200k on a college education, but if ur not like that i dont see the point of sacrificing everything so u can brag about how ur kid went to yale, harvard, or princeton.</p>
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[quote]
I think this is absurd because then they will probably spend the majority of their life paying off that debt when they can easily go to a state school for much cheaper and get really good grades there, since state schools are easier than top schools. this will make it easier for them to get internships, since they care about your gpa more than they care about what school you went to
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I totally agree with that statement... Especially for grad school admissions too, college GPA matters al ot</p>
<p>second the agreement. my only disagreement is that some "state" schools are extremely hard to gain admission to, for OOS. that being said...YES! the "top school" phenomenon is out of control, but unfortunately goes along with the focus of many.....BRAND NAMES ....jeans that cost $150 and up must be better than lowly levis, victorias secret must be better than...i guess warner's? you get my point. and i think this is based on our culture which promotes externals to make up for a lack of internals. certainly not to be generalized to all, but this insane name-craze in college admissions( and all those who are raking in big bucks because of it) i believe is often based in one's incredible insecurity. "i am good and life will be good if i can just get into...."</p>
<p>yea but notice this: </p>
<pre><code>* Rank
* % receiving grants based on need ('06)
* Average cost after receiving grants based on need ('06)
* Average discount from total cost ('06)
</code></pre>
<ol>
<li> Harvard University (MA) 49% $15,647 66%</li>
<li> Princeton University (NJ) 52% $16,741 63%</li>
<li> Yale University (CT) 42% $16,295 65%</li>
<li> California Institute of Technology 53% $16,926 60%</li>
<li> Massachusetts Inst. of Technology 67% $19,677 58%</li>
<li> Stanford University (CA) 43% $18,986 59%</li>
<li> Dartmouth College (NH) 50% $18,820 60%</li>
<li> Columbia University (NY) 46% $19,412 59%</li>
<li> U. of North CarolinaChapel Hill * 34% $14,954 50%</li>
<li> Duke University (NC) 38% $20,888 55%</li>
<li> Vanderbilt University (TN) 39% $19,667 58%</li>
<li> University of Chicago 45% $22,792 52%</li>
<li> Rice University (TX) 36% $18,819 47%</li>
<li> University of Pennsylvania 41% $23,188 51%</li>
</ol>
<p>sorry it is sort of jumbled, its a copy paste from US News Rankings ( which i thought it would help to buy). This list and what i hear from other people indicate to me that even though these schools cost alot, they give out alot if you need it. maybe ive been mislead?</p>
<p>be careful of USNWR. yes, they are very misleading. i don't have a link at my fingertips, but there's plenty on CC debating the worth of its numbers, ranks and the very limited way they account for the variability.</p>
<p>i wouldn't be suprised. i get sheeped into doing things all the time. lol</p>
<p>I agree with the USNEWS DATA...usually if you need you fall into a certain income bracket, the cheapest schools are usually the best ones (if you get in)</p>
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[quote]
YES! the "top school" phenomenon is out of control, but unfortunately goes along with the focus of many.....BRAND NAMES
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</p>
<p>I agree but only to a certain extent. It really depends on what you want to get out of it. If all you want is a solid education and a decent job, then yes, going to school at an elite brand name institution is NOT worth it.<br>
However, if you're looking to work for top investment banks, consulting firms, blue-chip companies, or attend top-tier graduate schools, then I'm sorry but your undergrad does matter. Compare the lists of companies recruiting at the Harvards, Yales, Princetons, MITs, Stanfords against those at Michigan State, Texas A&M, and Southern Illinois. Or check the alma maters of students at grad schools like YLS or HBS -- see how overrepresented the top privates/publics are relative to the less well-regarded schools. Rightly or wrongly, undergrad selectivity is used as a form of signaling for the quality of student body. Factor in the elitist attitudes of alums whom only help grads from their alma maters (or perceived peer institutions) and the fact that being surrounded by the "best and the brightest" facilitates one's learning better than "average joes", it's not hard to see that there are certainly benefits to attending a top school.</p>
<p>I don't understand the sense of self-righteousness you anti-elitists seem to think they're entitled to. You're just as effective as anti-smoking campaigns, you only **** people off by telling them you know what's better for them.</p>
<p>You're not convincing anyone by blasting their choices, you're only making yourselves look like you have an inferiority complex.</p>
<p>Unless you're some kind of poster-child for the small college movement, I suggest you get off your anti-elitist soapboxes. Nobody's up here preaching and making threads trying to prove state schools suck.</p>
<p>Some people like a sense of success, it makes them feel meaningful; let people be, it's of no concern to you.</p>
<p>Edit: Grammatic error.</p>
<p>Yeah, really. I'm better than you mortals and I've come to accept that.</p>
<p>Well, a top college is good for consulting or investment banking. </p>
<p>Mostly though it's just a competition. They are selective, so you prove your worth by getting in.</p>
<p>Whoa.. props to IlikeDice.</p>
<p>I was going to say that a lot of the "top schools" have multi-billion dollar endowments, so graduate indebtedness isn't always necessarily going to be a problem. It could work out that the cost of attending, say, Harvard is less than (or comparable to) the cost of attending an "equally good" state school... given the appropriate financial situation.</p>
<p>Also, brand name doesn't mean the most expensive. Drew University, a relatively under appreciated Liberal Arts College just became the most expensive college in New Jersey... more expensive than Princeton, with it's $8.2 billion cushion.</p>
<p>Top colleges are overrated to the students who don't get admitted.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but if you parents are ballers and have like 3 bmws and a gigantic house, yeah i can understand blowing 150-200k on a college education, but if ur not like that i dont see the point of sacrificing everything so u can brag about how ur kid went to yale, harvard, or princeton
[/quote]
</p>
<p>In this context, my parents are ballers (the gigantic house and the three bmw's, no, but the willingness to pay for college, no matter the cost, yes). If they were not ballers or were unwilling to pay for college, I would probably not be at the elite school that I am now and I would have probably sent myself to state school.</p>
<p>I, too, didn't see the value of running myself into piles of debt for a name on a diploma. Shakespeare is Shakespeare, the MCATs are the MCATs... it seems like material is equally rigorous and challenging no matter where you attend school. At state school, I would also feel less pressure to make my degree economically "useful" than I would if I took out lots of loans at an elite school and could open myself up to studying what I wanted and doing what I wanted with the rest of my life.</p>
<p>Personally I do not think the "top" colleges are overrated so much as the next tier of collges are underrated ... the top schools are great ... and so are a bunch of other schools!</p>
<p>There seem to be two major schools of thought on this topic, judging by the postings I've read.</p>
<p>One school says "I MUST go to HYPSM or my life is RUINED! Ruined, I tell you! My pride will be destroyed and I won't be able to hold my head up or look my neighbors in the eye ever again! I won't be able to get a job and I'll end up begging on the streets! Also, if I'm a parent, the other parents with college-age kids will laugh at me at dinner parties!"</p>
<p>The other school says "HYPSM are so overrated! I'm going to stand on a soapbox and tell everybody constantly how overrated they are! It doesn't matter where you go to school, except if you want to go to one of these schools, in which case it shows that you have misplaced priorities. Because we all know that biology is biology, right, it couldn't possibly matter where you take it! Clearly, if you want to go to these schools you are a shallow person who only cares about brand name and doesn't know what's really best for you! The answer to that, of course, is small LACs. Or state schools. LACs! state schools! LACs! state schools! rah rah rah!"</p>
<p>People have funny complexes.</p>
<p>Mr/Ms IlikeDice:</p>
<p>"I don't understand the sense of self-righteousness you anti-elitists seem to think they're entitled to. You're just as effective as anti-smoking campaigns, you only **** people off by telling them you know what's better for them."</p>
<p>Some more grammatical editing is needed here. Hope you can brush up your skills before moseying off to Harvard.</p>
<p>"You're not convincing anyone by blasting their choices, you're only making yourselves look like you have an inferiority complex"</p>
<p>You're quite correct, no matter how much sound advice is offered, there are always going to be people who don't have the good sense to at least listen.</p>
<p>"Unless you're some kind of poster-child for the small college movement, I suggest you get off your anti-elitist soapboxes."</p>
<p>The last time I checked, the pupose of this and other forums was to offer information, advice, and yes, opinions.</p>
<p>"Some people like a sense of success, it makes them feel meaningful; let people be, it's of no concern to you."</p>
<p>Yes, I agree, it is very sad that people feel so inadequate that they need to prop themselves up by associating with some name brand or other (see happycollegemom's post). But you're right, at some point it really becomes of no concern to others.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yes, I agree, it is very sad that people feel so inadequate that they need to prop themselves up by associating with some name brand or other (see happycollegemom's post).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This may come as a shock to you and some others on here, but not everyone, or even most students, who go to these schools do so for this reason.</p>
<p>But the point is, IlikeDice seems to think they do. And, by the way, it may come as a shock to you, but I was accepted at two of "those schools", and attended one.</p>
<p>Jessie--</p>
<p>I find it really unnerving that you characterize somebody who disagrees with you as somebody with a soapbox and an agenda to push forward. If I were truly on a soapbox, I would be trying to quash dissenting opinion and I would be spewing forth taglines about how the elite schools are terrible places.</p>
<p>I can't call elite schools terrible places for two reasons. First of all, I attend an elite school (though it would be hardly the elite school one would choose for bragging rights), and secondly, I actually think Harvard (using Harvard as a metonymy for elite schools) is a good school. I think Dartmouth is a pretty cool place to be. I think Brown is rad. I think Stanford is awesome.</p>
<p>However, I do remain unconvinced that these schools are leaps and bounds better than your state school. Naturally, you're going to run into a wider swath of intelligence levels at a state school, and you're probably going to have to fight for resources a bit more, but my friends at elite schools are not having a kind of scintillating experience that would not be available to them elsewhere. I have a lot of friends at Harvard, and I have a lot of friends who do not make a big deal and do not want to make a big deal that they go there, and I have a lot of friends who are unhappy there. Some people might be convinced that the world will become a better place once that admittance to Harvard comes in the mail. Let me be the first to tell you that it won't be.</p>
<p>It's fun when you have a sampling of friends who attend schools of all types all around the country. One day, my best friends from high school went out to lunch and we all gushed on and on about how amazing our schools were. One goes to a super-elite university, one goes to an elite LAC, one goes to a no-name state school, one goes to a no-name liberal arts college, and I go to an elite university. We were all super-happy with our experiences-- the friends we made, the professors we met, the foul-smelling liquids we ran into, the weird traditions and activities we found ourselves a part of. We realized that our schools shared a lot in common, despite all of the external differences, and we realized that we all loved our schools so much because we made them the right place for us. For example, my friend at no-name liberal arts college took a class on Marxist theory and was about to get a lot more out of it than I did. when I read him as part of my school's Core Curriculum As I said before, Marx is Marx, and he is just as baffling and challenging no matter where you study him. </p>
<p>I've spent a lot of time on this site bemoaning my own college process, in which I only considered schools above a certain rank in the US News list. I did this not because I was prestige-obsessed, but because I thought that the higher-ranked schools were inherently better than the lower-ranked ones, and because nobody (not teachers, not the guidance department at my school, not my parents) encouraged me otherwise. Instead of saying to myself, "shucks, I would have been so much happier had I attended an Ivy League school-- why didn't I apply to any of them?" I find myself saying to myself, "Shucks, I should have considered a sleepy, no-name liberal arts school more carefully. Maybe that school would have given me even more support and room to grow intellectually. Why didn't I consider those when I looked at colleges?"</p>
<p>So that's my complex for you :-)</p>