Top Education Schools?

<p>Point of clarification on yours, hoedown, MSU is widely considered superior to Michigan, UCLA & Penn State as a whole (undergrad & grad) school in the field of education. </p>

<p>That you're solely relying on USN&WR, which is simply a popularity contest affected by the "halo effect" (programs unfairly boosted in popularity by the reputation and or quality of a school's other programs), highlights the intrinsic problems with the evaluation to begin with, and why I didn't even mention it, even though MSU “rates” well with them. US News says its "rating" of grad school programs (which is where you got info from) is strictly based on "reputation." That is, a survey was sent out to deans of the schools being rated -- education in this case -- in order to rate these schools. How scientific is that? The fact has been shown again and again that many far-off educators answering these surveys who know little of Michigan, will knee-jerk rate U-M higher based on its overall reputation. Moreover, the fact that, even US News rates MSU's grad schools of primary and secondary education as #1, respectively, and has done so for the last 10 or so years, ought to tell you something. I mean, in terms of a college or school of education, what really else is there? Aren't not these two programs the core of any school of education? And the fact that, even beyond these programs, the "worst" MSU rates in Admin/supervision any area was #10 in Administration/supervision. I don’t buy the “whole is lesser than the sum of its parts” theory because I know (and a lot of educators know) how flawed US News ratings system is (ie, its goal was and is to sell more USN&WR magazines: mission accomplished). I have a friend who teaches at Michigan and she readily admits that MSU is tops in education in the state of Michigan; that U-M's ed program is clearly "halo-ed" by US News. </p>

<p>Eastern Michigan is a fine program, and Eastern, founded 1849, is the oldest teacher training institution in the nation. But the orientations of MSU and EMU are different. EMU's goal is to turn out quality, practically trained teachers for the state of Michigan, whereas MSU's goal, as a national research university, is that of EMU’s, plus education research.-- there are several federally-funded research institutes on MSU's campus: including the National Center for Research on Teaching and the research center for the Third International Mathematics and Science Study – MSU researchers administered this widely acclaimed international study which noted that USA student's are falling behind other industrial nations in math and science. And MSU's education college was the one that altered the structure of education colleges across the country: moving from a 4-year curriculum emphasizing general studies the 1st few years and a practicum, the last, to requiring prospective teachers to first earn a 4-year liberal arts degree plus one additional year, often in a master's specialized study focusing on the more practical aspects of teaching.</p>

<p>US News aside, there's no doubt in the minds of most any person in the field of education that MSU is among the elite -- top 5 at least -- schools of education in the country.</p>

<p>Here are the 2006 US News numbers for MSU's individual departments:</p>

<p>o Elementary Education #1 - best in the nation
(12th year)
o Secondary Education #1 - best in the nation
(12th year)
o Rehabilitation Counseling #1 (retained from 2003 rankings)
o Curriculum & Instruction #2
o Higher Education Administration #4
o Educational Psychology #5
o Educational Policy #9
o Administration/Supervision #10</p>

<hr>

<p>how MSU stacks up with the comparative schools in these fields:</p>

<p>Elementary Education
1. Michigan State University
2. University of Wisconsin-Madison
3. University of Georgia
4. Ohio State University
5. Teachers College-Columbia
6. Vanderbilt University
7. Indiana University</p>

<p>Secondary Education
1. Michigan State University
2. University of Wisconsin-Madison
3. Stanford University (CA)
4. Ohio State University
5. University of Georgia
6. Teachers College-Columbia
7. University of Virginia (Curry)</p>

<p>Rehabilitation Counseling
1. Michigan State University
2. University of Wisconsin-Madison
3. Southern Illinois University
3. University of Iowa
5. Boston University
5. George Washington University
5. Illinois Institute of Technology</p>

<p>Curriculum and Instruction
1. University of Wisconsin-Madison
2. Michigan State University
3. Teachers College-Columbia
4. University of Illinois-Urbana
5. Stanford University
6. Ohio State University</p>

<p>Higher Education Admin
1. University of Michigan
2. Pennsylvania State University
3. University of California-Los Angeles
4. Michigan State University
5. University of Southern California (Rossier)</p>

<p>Educational Psychology
1. University of Wisconsin-Madison
2. Stanford University
3. University of Michigan
4. University of Illinois-Urbana
5. Michigan State University
6. University of Maryland-College Park</p>

<p>Educational Policy
1. Harvard University
2. Stanford University
3. University of Wisconsin-Madison
4. Teachers College-Columbia
5. University of Michigan
6. Vanderbilt University
7. University of Pennsylvania
8. University of California-Berkeley
9. Michigan State University
10. Pennsylvania State University-University Park
10. University of California</p>

<p>Administration/Supervision
1. University of Wisconsin-Madison
2. Vanderbilt University
3. Harvard University
4. Stanford University
5. Pennsylvania State University
6. Ohio State University
7. University of Texas-Austin
8. Teachers College-Columbia
9. University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
10. Michigan State University</p>

<p>K thanks for writing all that and telling me my philosophies are wrong. I guess you didnt grow up in an upper class family with ivy league parents. MY parents expect me to go to a certain type of school. If i'm not going to go to BU, American, or anything in that league, then they'll expect me to go to Temple. As great as MSU may be, and even EMU, I'm not going to Michigan, i'm not allowed, and neither school has any cache` in the slightest.</p>

<p>They don't have hiding places?? If you want to use a pretentious word at least spell it right.</p>

<p>vanderbilt obviously with peabody, ands then ou with the intensive 5 year program</p>

<p>Barrons whos that directed towards?
Camper yeah Vandy would be awesome but not with my stats. It's probably not for me regardless</p>

<p>Boston University is definitely good for education. Johns Hopkins University has good graduate programs in education, not sure if they have an undergraduate program. Columbia has a school of education. It would be easier to get into than Columbia College, the Ivy League branch of Columbia University.</p>

<p>Thanks OneMom. Thats what im lookin for :)</p>

<p>You jPod. ...............</p>

<p>because???</p>

<p>I really dont understand that</p>

<p>The word you were trying to use is cachet. A cache is a hiding place.
If you plan on a life of trivial pretentiousness, at least learn the words.</p>

<p>Well i apologize for missing a 'T'. Now get the **** out of my thread.</p>

<p>American and BU have no cachet. UW runs rings around both of them.</p>

<p>Anyone who thinks neither of those schools have Cachet is an idiot, or a student at UW. In this case, you happen to be both. Bye.</p>

<p>anyone else?</p>

<p>man im glad u two dont really know each other</p>

<p>not that i'd care to anyway.</p>

<p>The irony of ME being accused of being a US News rankings junkie. Hoot.</p>

<p>Quincy said:

[quote]
That you're solely relying on USN&WR, which is simply a popularity contest affected by the "halo effect" (programs unfairly boosted in popularity by the reputation and or quality of a school's other programs), highlights the intrinsic problems with the evaluation to begin with, and why I didn't even mention it, even though MSU “rates” well with them. US News says its "rating" of grad school programs (which is where you got info from) is strictly based on "reputation."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Interesting. I'm not sure why you think I'm relying solely on information from U.S. News. Higher Ed is a very small field (what, 80 programs in the entire nation, is it?). HALE is a fine Higher Ed program; I've met some of their students and know some of their faculty, I've even collaborated with them. But the reputation of UCLA, Penn State, and U-M has been strong for a long time. Higher ed scholars who don't even pick up U.S. News have opinions about these programs, and U-M, PSU, and UCLA are considered to be aces in the field.</p>

<p>Frankly, the rest of U-M's School of Education may have a "halo effect" from the Higher Ed program--not the other way around! The joke on campus, for years, is that CSHPE carries the school. A bit of an exaggeration meant to needle the Ed Studies folks, sure....but your post is the first time I've ever heard anyone suggest the opposite.</p>

<p>If you re-read my remarks, I noted that MSU is well regarded in education, AND is highly ranked--I didn't say it was good BECAUSE it was highly ranked.</p>

<p>Your comment about federally-funded projects is on target, but one could use those same arguments to promote schools that you are arguing are are lesser than MSU. FIPSE and NCRIPTAL money, OISE projects, etc, (we could drown in acronyms) abound at some of MSU's peers as well.</p>

<p>I think your explanation about the focus of Normal schools is right; I brought it up originally because I felt it was worth pointing out that the advice given here (which tends to skew towards US News rankings) would probably overlook some schools that are well worth looking into. I don't think our opinions are so terribly far apart, although I think you clearly mistook the source of my statements about HALE. The irony is, I am certain the OP doesn't care about Higher Ed programs.
LOL</p>

<p>indeed i dont. i'm doing elementary ed. :)
Nor does the state of Michigan matter for anything as MSU isnt an option and i'm about two years late thinking about UM :P</p>

<p>Well, bless your heart for being interested in a truly important field. I'm also a teacher's kid, like you.</p>

<p>At any rate, Michigan's School of Ed doesn't admit freshman anyway--so you're not in fact two years too late, but I know what you're saying.</p>