Top MBA without "typical" work experience???

Graduate School Business School - MBA
1

<p>I am currently a senior majoring in Public Health at Brigham Young University. Until now, I have been concentrated upon preparing for medical school. However, my most recent work as a tutor at a high end residential treatment center for troubled youth has imbued within me a dream of establishing and managing my own high end residential treatment center. I have felt inspired that this dream would fully utilize my personal talents and abilities as well as bring fulfillment and satisfaction to my life.
As such, I have begun to investigate elite MBA programs. I'd greatly appreciate anyone's insights or advice based upon personal experience or knowledge. The perceived area in which I am and will be lacking most is work experience. However, I have served a 2 year full time mission for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Wharton website expressly states that this experience is considered "work experience." I am going to list my current credentials and a specific description of this "non-typical" work experience, with the hope that it may provide a basis for assessing my current likelihood of admittance into a top tier program.
Here are my credentials:
- 3.86 GPA
- I have not taken the GMAT, but after doing practice questions, feel that I could do very well (around or above the competitive averages at top tier schools).
- Work on a part time basis in two labs at BYU (molecular biology). In one of these labs, I worked for several months as the project leader of an educational science project funded by the National Science Foundation.
- Two semesters of work as a Bioethics Teaching Assistant - this involved specifically teaching a weekly class about the ethics of political, medical, social, and scientific issues.
- Membership in the BYU President's Leadership Council Mentoring program. In this program, I have the opportunity to engage and learn from prominent businessmen.
- For two years, I served as a missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in western Idaho, Northern Nevada, and Eastern Oregon. During this time period, I had the following leadership experiences:
For 4.5 Months: Directly supervised 5 other missionaries. Taught and trained these missionaries on a weekly basis.
For 4.5 Months: Directly supervised approximately 30 other missionaries. Taught and trained these missionaries on a weekly basis and oversaw and coordinated with two other "district leaders" who oversaw the work of smaller groups of missionaries.
For 9.0 Months: Worked as an Assistant to the Mission President. In this capacity, I directly oversaw the work of 160+ missionaries. I also traveled throughout the entire geographic region teaching, training, and advising other missionaries. I also coordinated with and trained subsidiary leaders on a weekly basis. In addition to the responsibilities I had in teaching and speaking to the missionaries, I also met regularly with the Mission President (the mission president is an older adult who is called to serve for 3 years while either retired or leaving his full time work setting) to counsel, create programs, and design the objectives of the mission. Part of assisting the Mission President included frequent public speaking before crowds ranging from adults to thousands of youth. During this time, according to our key indicators of success, the mission performed better than it had for more than 5 years.</p>

<p>Now I understand that this work experience is not typical and in some sense is very religious in nature and I don't wish to make this a religious issue at all. I learned so much from it and developed leadership and communication skills I would humbly submit I couldn't have gained in an equal time frame in almost any other learning environment. This was not a job, but a day and night assignment. Assuming that I receive a very competitive score on the GMAT, what is the likelihood fo getting accepted into a top tier MBA program like Harvard or Wharton?<br>
Thanks so much in advance for your advice and counsel. I also apologize for writing so much. Thanks.</p>

2

<p>wouldnt a masters in healthcare administration be better at this point? with 0 business classes an MBA would drown you.</p>

3

<p>You won’t get into a top MBA program without more experience. What would really convince an MBA program of that caliber to take you is if you actually pursue the dream you have of starting such a treatment center. If after 5 years you’re successful, you may not want to leave to get an MBA, but if you do, you’ll have a tremendous story to tell and a lot more credibility.</p>

<p>Another approach would be to take a management position in a treatment center, learn the ropes for a year or two, start your own, and then try for the MBA.</p>

<p>You see where I am going with this. Now you’re a talented person with a good record, but you don’t have what it takes to get into a top MBA program. Top programs want to know you have the managerial moxy and they want to know you’ll be really hireable after you get out.</p>

<p>Also, if you want to do something health care related, look at the schools that are part of this alliance:</p>

<p>[B-Schools&lt;/a&gt; Form Health Care Alliance - BusinessWeek](<a href=“Bloomberg - Are you a robot?”>Bloomberg - Are you a robot?)</p>

<p>My personal favorites as founding members in the alliance:</p>

<p>Wharton
Haas/Berkeley
Harvard</p>

<p>The fact that they have dedicated health care foci and that’s what you want to focus on will help you, if you get good experience under your belt.</p>

4

<p>I appreciate the advice and certainly would not be so prideful as to disregard it. My only follow up question is - What undergrads do get admitted to top tier programs like Harvard and Wharton without work experience? Both admissions websites seem to emphasize that work experience is not required and that every year there are students who are admittted directly from undergrad in both programs without work experience. Also, Wharton specifically recognizes missionary service as work experience that would be considered.
My purpose here is not to be contradictory. I am confident that you are probably right and I appreciate your counsel. However, I am just wondering what kind of undergrads would be admitted … but I suppose in this land of opportunity, maybe a prerequesite to being accepted directly from undergrad would be having the last name of Bush or Kennedy :slight_smile: Thanks.</p>

5

<p>I dunno how amazing your mission experience is. I mean, Mormons all do that for a few years so my guess would be that there’d be a ton of them with very little experience overseeing many others. I also am dubious about your “directly supervised 160 people” in your capacity as your assistant to somebody. What does that even mean? You realize that they’re going to be getting people that did atypical things like that in Africa and whatnot, too. My guess is missionary work, the peace corps, etc is all really in the same sort of basket and doing what you did in the USA isn’t going to stand out that much. </p>

<p>You’ve really got to be totally awesome to get into the tip top programs without real work experience, and a 3.86 from BYU probably doesn’t qualify. Maybe throw in an Olympic Gold Medal? </p>

<p>All that said, MBA admissions seem to be a bit of a black box compared to Law School admissions for example, so who knows? If you have great recommendations and write great essays you might have a shot.</p>

6

<p>all though not recommended, you will find that The Stanford Graduate School of Business still admits students straight from undergraduate with no work experience - only a few per year though:</p>

<p>[Admission:</a> MBA Program: Stanford GSB](<a href=“http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/mba/admission/]Admission:”>Admission to the Stanford MBA Program Information for the Stanford MBA Program | Stanford Graduate School of Business)</p>

7

<p>the figure is 3% of the first year students at Stanford GSB have 0-1 years of experience</p>

<p>so that is about 10-12 students per year</p>

8

<p>I think youre missing the point. Much of MBA classes will have to do with discussions and collaborations, the likes of which most MBA studends have done in the real world. Even if by some divine intervention you got in, you would be far behind par with most class discussions having 0000000000 real world work experience. </p>

<p>YES harvard loves mormons and YES wharton loves BYU grads, having served a mission myself it is in no way comparable to my work experience.</p>

<p>Get your experience say 5 years it will pay off in dividends (if public health majors know what that means)</p>

9

<p>This information is helpful, but why the consistent elitist and sarcastic remarks? First of all, I am not ignorant of economics and business. While I have had some formal academic study in these areas, judging by discussions with my “business” and “econ” major friends from across the country, I think I would do okay in a business setting. Most of them are cookie cutter thinkers who have no real definitive ideology or set of principles which would dictate their discussions or decisions anyhow.<br>
Remember, you know very little about me here - and you make comments that imply that I am some kind of idiot because I majored in public health? A major that requires the likes of O Chem, Genetics, Molecular Bio, Calculus, etc? My GPA would be higher if I could cash a few of those courses in for some business classes. I mean, at the root aren’t quantitative courses like calculus and statistics key indicators of academic readiness? In these courses, I got well over a 100% and close to it without even trying (went to my stat class one time) … that means I kicked some of your business major friends’ butts. CMoss - I appreciate your empathy with my mission experience, but I know after having served a mission, that everyone’s mission experience is unique and different. For example - I trained a new mission president for the last 4.5 months of my mission (this is the term that both of my mission presidents used to describe this time period) - also got a new companion at the same time - so in many instances, I was making sole decisions for the whole mission that normally a mission president alone would make. Also, key indicators of success, speaking assignments, etc, can certainly vary. Not placing mine above or below yours because that would be prideful and arrogant. Just pointing out that during my missionary service, there was one other missionary (out of at least 300) who held comparable leadership assignments for a comparable period of time, and that missionary didn’t train a new mission president or lead during a time that the mission hit its highest key indicators for more than 5 years. That doesn’t make me like every other missionary who has served. Again, I am not saying this to be prideful. It is just the honest truth. My mission taught me to excel in public speaking, and if you were able to speak with anyone who knew me, they would probably tell you that I could hold my own in a debate or speaking assignment, even if I am just a slobbering public health major.
Truth is, I think business as a whole is highly corrupt. Also, based upon my close observance of politics, I feel that some of the greatest economic minds of our day are those who think “outside of the system” - and surprisingly they don’t have MBA’s or even business degrees in many instances. I mean, can it be argued that our country’s declining economy is in some way related to the key MBA holding economic leaders who are running it based upon their perception of economics? If I don’t understand how a country can thrive while spending more than it ever has hope of repaying, I am proud to be ignorant.
My last question is, if I can by some miracle overcome my public health background and rock the GMAT, do I have a chance? Would a 750-800 get them interested? Right now I am interested in getting in - I am not afraid at all of crashing and burning if I do.</p>

10

<p>Breakdancerj: I hope my responses didn’t come across as sarcastic. I know you were responding to some of the other folks that, I agree, verged on abusive/sarcastic. I am a parent, or more reasonably put an uncle on this board. I have checked in here out of curiosity. I have worked for, well let’s just say a top 5 business school in a reasonably senior position. If you want, I can verify that through a private message.</p>

<p>Mission work is a fine thing, but it’s not enough. I tried to help a person with a good business track record after mission in South America (also LDS). He only wanted to go to Harvard Wharton and Stanford. He got rejected the first time from Wharton. And he got waitlisted at all three the second time.</p>

<p>You know the phrase actions speak louder than words. Well, these schools want to see that you really want to be in business and that you care about business. What comes through in your statements here is that you care about the prestige of Harvard and Wharton. First of all, I’d say get over that. At the very least, if you are dedicated to a health career look at all the schools on the alliance for health care management list. There are great schools. But most of all, show through your actions, not your statements, that achieving something in business or in your chosen field of endeavor is what you want to do. The trick is to be able to argue credibly that you will be successful whether or not you get the business degree, but that you’ve realized that you would be helped by having the business degree. Business schools will be more impressed if they have a sense that you are a successful person in your own right. The way your situation reads you think that going to business school will be the difference between succeeding or not.</p>

<p>Go achieve something. Dive in. Chew the heart of what you want to accomplish out. Work, work, work. Progress. Learn lessons. If you need to, take some business classes at night, if they will help you in what you are doing during the day. Don’t take this advice as saying mission work is not worthwhile, but whatever Wharton’s website says, you will be viewed much more favorably if you succeed in another arena. Success, by the way, can involve failure in business as long as you were risking big and have a good story to tell. Start something up. Go big.</p>

<p>Secondly, public health is a great major. And it is especially good given the goals you have. </p>

<p>These are just some random thoughts.</p>

<p>Oh, and sure a good GMAT is better than a worse one, but frankly, above a certain score, the schools don’t care all that much. It is used up-front as a screen often. Below, I don’t know 650 let’s say, and they are much less likely to consider your app at the top schools. After you’ve hit the screen, they’ll generally only use it to round out a picture of you. It’s not in and of itself that important beyond a certain score. Hanging your hat on a high GMAT score would be ridiculous.</p>

<p>You’ve got the beginnings of a great application. Now go prove leadership and accomplishment, again.</p>

<p>And for goodness sake, don’t just apply to Wharton and Harvard or Haas/Berkeley or Kellogg – or the other schools on that alliance list. It was an awkward conversation with the guy when he said he had only applied to HSW and was waitlisted at all three!</p>

11

<p>What about the Harvard 2+2 program? Would I be a potential candidate for that program? Anything anyone could tell me about it? Thanks.</p>

12

<p>Bedhead - Your comments make a LOT of sense and are helpful in realigning my perspective. Comments like yours are the reason I asked the questions I did on this forum in the first place. Any specific suggestions about how to go big? One of the things that is most intimidating to me is not work itself, but finding a beginning in it that can lead to a challenging and prosperous venture. I guess the hypothetical example I would give is that if every restaurant in America required that you had at least some experience working at a restaurant in order to be hired, how do you ever get that needed experience? Now don’t worry - I am not considering working for Mickey D’s here. I am just looking for any pointers about how to get started. I have have a father who is a brilliant chemical engineer. He got a patent for his company on a chemical process that literally increased profits by millions. He didn’t even get a raise. He is currently close to retirement, working for 30K less a year than he should be paid by industry standards. I don’t want to be in that situation. It seems to me that the start is what determines the finish. Again, I appreciate your insights and am really just thinking a million thoughts a minute about how I can go big.</p>

13

<p>Look outside the box. If you can’t do something meaningful in the area you want to be active in, what about a high-profile medical mission? Look at what foundations are doing. What about going overseas in a responsible position, etc.?</p>

<p>I don’t have time now, but I would start looking at the thousand ways you could apply your public health degree…</p>

14

<p>Just following up with what I said before. Look around, look at the world, look at yourself. What do you want to achieve? What business do you want to start? What non-profit? If you want to create something, figure out how to do it.</p>

<p>If you can tell a credible story with respect to wanting to create something and then setting out more or less successfully to do so, you will capture someone’s imagination. The most impressive people that, after they decided they needed to go to b-school to grow, and went to the likes of Berkeley/Stanford/Wharton/Kellogg business schools have stories to tell along these lines.</p>

15

<p>BreakDancer,</p>

<p>Your epic long responses sound like you are trying to sell us on the idea. It shouldnt seem like that. To answer your original post, serving a mission looks good on a resume but it doesnt count as work experience.</p>

<p>If you want to get into the best you have to score the best gmat(750+ and good luck) have the best letters of recommendation, have the best extracurriculars (start your own non profit) and work experience (work that non profit for 5 years) Adcoms dont weigh in GPA because frankly grad schools would rather have someone who has been in the business world learning than in the library an extra 4 hours a day.</p>

<p>Make sense?</p>

<p>The harvard 2+2 program would be great for you but you have to apply during your junior year.</p>

16

<p>

IMO, and the general consensus on healthcare MBA ranking is:

  1. Duke-Fuqua
  2. Wharton</p>

<p>Duke-Fuqua is especially strong. It offers a concentration in Healthcare Sector Management. It also have strong a network with the big players in healthcare. </p>

<p>other programs doesn’t offer any specialization in healthcare.</p>

17

<p>Hi!</p>

<p>I was in the same shoes as you were brother.
I would say do what your heart tells you.
I graduated as Valedictorian of my University and then I chose to serve my mission.
All my classmates were getting corporate world experiences while I was away on my mission earning nothing, except things of the spirit and things which have helped me on things which matter most in life.
I was District Leader then Assistant to the President.
My mission was the best experience I have had. After my mission, I worked at a consulting firm for 1 1/2 years and then now I am doing a Master’s Program in Finance at the University of Cambridge. Their requirement is 3 years of experience and a first class.
I only have 1 1/2 experience and I have a second class and still I got in with a full scholarship. Just show them how passionate you are about your dreams in life. And they will feel your sincerity.</p>

<p>I know U.S. schools are considered more prestigious but my experience here have just confirmed to me that the Lord’s work is more important than any degree. There are things in life more worthwhile.^^,</p>

<p>My classmates are now in Wharton, Harvard, and so forth. But, I am in Cambridge.^^,
These are all brands and names. Enjoy life brother and live the gospel as I know you do.
“Never let a problem to be solved become more important than a person to be loved.”</p>