Top schools are not worth it?

<p>All other things being equal I would much rather be a family making $180k and being full pay, than making $60k and getting a free ride, or even $120k and having to pay $20k a year after getting some need-based aid.</p>

<p>I would not do loans if at all possible. I would never ever do parent loans. My children would just not go to college before I would even consider taking out parent loans. I want my children applying to both types of schools and comparing what the packages end up being. I have a limit of what I will spend on each child, and I will not budge. That limit includes if I have to pay for plane tickets. If my child wants to go far away, he/she needs to figure that in too.</p>

<p>Also, my husband and I are debt free, except the student loans. I think the loans are horrible. They are like a chain around the neck. I have encouraged my children to not take them out. If I could afford to take out 20K in loans per child (which equals well over 100K in loans) then I could afford to pay off my own student loans. </p>

<p>Frankly, and I am not saying this directed at anyone here (I have not read very many responses, so this is definitely not directed at anyone) but I am tired of people who whine about their debts, while they continue to spend and take out more debts. I have heard people whine how difficult life is financially, and how they are barely making it, and then they go out and buy decked out SUVs. They never miss a pedicure, manicure, or massage. And likewise, “the college experience” is a luxury. I expect my children to make it affordable through scholarships, working, etc. If they don’t want to, then they will be the ones to go without it. Because there actually is nothing wrong with community college. It is nice and great when it can be afford to have the college experience. It is not ok when it breaks the parents and leaves them unable to pay their way, losing their homes, etc.</p>

<p>Forget the top schools. The Tier II schools want you to take on 30K a year in loans to attend there, even a top student. They’d rather put their money into their basketball team than giving scholarships to smart kids. </p>

<p>I have recently become exposed to some families that are only looking at top schools. Look at the CC list of Top LACs, and that’s where they’re looking. Not surprisingly, these are parents of daughters. Okay, I’m from the South, and we’re still in the Dark Ages, but it is not uncommon around here that families will insist their sons attend the no debt state flagship, but they will take on huge amounts of loans to send their daughters to expensive privates, no doubt thinking they will come away with a well paying MRS degree.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, this thinking is not only limited to the south, as I have friends in the Midwest who have senior HS daughters, and they’re heading down the same road.</p>

<p>There are no longer any federally subsidized loans for graduate and professional schools. Therefore, it may make sense to take out the maximum amount of federally subsidized loans for undergrad, even if you don’t need it all. You can then save some of your savings for grad school. Also, I believe federally subsidized loans can be paid off early without penalty. </p>

<p>Everyone should remember that the amount of federally subsidized loans is limited per year for undergrad. Therefore, you should not blow all of your savings during freshman year to avoid loans, and then expect to make up the difference with federal loans in later years.</p>

<p>charlieschm–you know, you have a good point. I never thought of it that way. We may have to rethink DD taking UG loans. If she maxed out those federal loans she can delay those payments through medical school and have a good chunk of money to start with med school costs…something to think about.</p>

<p>SteveMa, We have had both of our kids take out about $15,000 in federal Stafford loans as undergrads. However, they were unsubsidized. There is a difference between unsubsidized and subsidized. If unsubsidized, it may make sense to pay the interest while the kid is in school but I am no expert in that. Best to clarify all that before making decisions. We did not ask our kids to pay anything while they were in school (even though they both worked every summer and made decent money). We paid all bills. They just were /are expected to pay off the loans when they graduate. Older 09 grad son paid his loans off within a year , from summer savings and his current job.</p>

<p>sevmom–we have had 2 go through college already so we’ve done that before and yes, it’s best to pay the interest while in college, which we would probably do for her. Our thinking for her was to get through UG with no debt but never really thought about the gov’t loans as a “savings” program for med school. She will take out loans for med school anyway so it’s an idea that is very worth considering.</p>

<p>

We don’t really have an option but to take out parent loans of one sort or another (since we don’t consider “just not going to college” to be an option). Our situation is structured in a way that has resulted in other options not being feasible right now. So we borrow. People here constantly rail against the idea, but not all of us have the same financial situations.</p>

<p>SteveMa, Sounds like you have certainly been through all this before so that is great. My only thought with what you are saying relates to medical school. It seems that is not always a given even though you think you need to plan for that now. My kids’ paternal great grandfather was a physician but no one in the family has gone in that direction since( he had 2 daughters who ended up with advanced degrees in biology - masters and PhD but no sons-that may have had something to do with it in that era). My nephew started at an Ivy last year saying he wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon and has already moved on from that. Kids do change their minds.</p>

<p>sevmom-yes they do but if the money from those loans is sitting in the bank somewhere, one check when she graduates from UG and they are gone. I’m not worried about that at all. We actually make our kids take one student loan freshman year, mainly so they can pay on it for a year or two when they graduate to help establish a credit rating. It’s worth the savings for home mortgages, car insurance, etc. to do that. Our oldest has his last loan payment coming up after a little over a year of paying on it. He also has an 810 credit rating and is trying to buy a house so it’s worked so far.</p>

<p>Post #32:

</p>

<p>Private schools and public schools never want students to have more than 20-30k loan. It’s the parents’ willingness to help the students. No undergraduate students should borrow more than $10 per year because loans are bad. If a student has to borrow $200k to go to a private school then he/she has to borrow $100k-$130k to go to a public school. $100k to $130k is still really bad. The 4-year COA difference between a private school and a public school is $80,000-$100,000, not the sensational $200k.</p>

<p>Your child should have had merit aid award if she applied to the type of schools that give merit award. Top schools only have need base aid.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>It depends upon which number you are using with “top.” If you only consider “Top 10” then you likely don’t have options. If you look at “Top 50” or “Top 100” there are decent options, esp if the student was competitive for the top 10. Considering there are 4000+ colleges, “Top 50/100” works for us and is financially heads and shoulders above “Top 10.” We didn’t even apply to “Top 10” for that reason even though the kid’s stats would have been in the top 25% at them (though yes, it’s a lottery). </p>

<p>If the student didn’t have similar stats, then our college app process would have targeted different schools that fit better. For the vast majority of jobs, it’s only the piece of paper that is needed. If one wants to pay for the perceived “Rolex Effect,” then they can, but yes, expect to pay for it.</p>

<p>I’ve heard the rule of thumb is that you should not have more in total student loan debt than you expect to earn your first year out of school.</p>

<p>** Bu this concept makes accepting a lower paying job do-able for new grads with loans <a href=“http://finance.yahoo.com/news/cheaper-student-loans-knew-183332768.html[/url]”>http://finance.yahoo.com/news/cheaper-student-loans-knew-183332768.html&lt;/a&gt;

</p>

<p>We did not send neither of our kids, they choose their UGs. Do not remember much about our S’s selection process, except that he was choosing one of the best program in his field and it happened to be at our state public. He did not have any awards, we paid out of paychecks as tuition was very low at that time.
With the younger, who graduated from college about 1.5 years ago, we specifically discussed Ivy / Elite, as she was #1 in her private prep. HS class. She said strongly that she is NOT considring them. We did not care one way or another. However, knowing that she is applying ONLY to UGs that would definitely give her great Merit awards was great as she was planning to go to Med. School, which is very expansive. She got awards at every school, including the largest amount at private and choose the state public that gave her full tuition Merit. Since she never went to Ivy, we do not know how we can compare. However, she had awesome 4 years at college, way way beyond any of our expectations, with opportunities that were not at all open to many others. She still misses the place, visits frequently and will remember it as the place that matched the best waht she was looking for. As of her Med. School, majority of her classmates came from Ivy’s and other very top schools and there are few with post bac., like Phd, lawyers and Masters of science. D’s academic preparation is at the same level as others and she was told that she is doing fine (her Med. School does not grade). There are others from state publics in her class, inluding 3 more from her UG. The class size is 170.
Looking back, I do not see anything negatvie in D’s experience. She is one of about 25% in Med. Schools who does not have student loans, her hard work and right decision resulted in free UG education, we are paying for Med. School in appreciation for that. There are others who have similar experiences/situation.
Being a star student at state public was definitely worth it. But we did not know it when she started college, hindsite is always wiser.</p>

<p>stretching both arms … … YAWN… … </p>

<p>To each has each’s own value … … end of discussion</p>

<p>^DadII
Your comment is applicable to every single thread though…</p>

<p>^^Miami, you are right, my comment is to response to all these “worth or not” discussions on CC. It is by not means just to your comment alone.</p>

<p>Think about it, I bet taht we could not even agree on what is the “education”, or how to define “better education”.</p>

<p>It is rather pointless to answer any question about value when posters have such varied socioeconomic backgrounds. Is my daily $4 latte at Starbucks “worth it” to me? Yes. Is it “worth it” to someone raising a family on $30,000 / year? Likely not. It’s a meaningless question.</p>

<p>"Think about it, I bet taht we could not even agree on what is the “education”, or how to define “better education”. </p>

<p>-We will definitely not because background of each of us here is different. </p>

<p>From what I see as long as we just stick to sharing vs arguing, it is worthwhile. When we start arguing, it becomes complete waste of time as nobody base thier opinion on arguments, opinions develop based on your experiences, background and family values.</p>