<p>The chance of failure does exist at any school, but the reality is that kids who make it into top schools are more likely to not fail, wherever they go. 4-year and 6-year graduation rates at Ivy League schools leave little room for failure. I don’t know all the rates, just the schools my D is interested in, but Yale, Princeton, and Amherst all have 4-year rates 90% or better, and 6-year rates of 96% or better. Compare that to our flagship state school, UConn, with 4-year of 556% and 6-year of 75%. UConn is a solid school, but a significan’t percentage don’t make it through. </p>
<p>I would expect my D to have little trouble completing her degree, but she will do better surrounded by others who will also make it through. The top schools have the resources to ensure they maintain those graduation rates - it’s in their best interest to make sure you make it through. Further, when running the net price calculators, in our situation, UConn came out more expensive than all of her reaches. At that point, I have to ask not whether the Ivy League schools are worth it, but whether our state flagship is worth the cost.</p>
<p>CTScoutmom, for most families with a bright student, an Ivy League school would be a better financial deal than the state flagship. The problem is, the Ivy League has spaces for only a tiny fraction of those students.</p>
<p>Best wishes for your D’s college application process. May she be one of the tiny fraction!</p>
<p>My son’s only been taking classes at Brown for 3 weeks now, but I notice a significantly stronger support network than that found in our public universities. He has emailed professors on several occasions and always gotten same-day responses (often within the hour). When a textbook ordered from Amazon arrived late, he was able to go to the library and not only find a reference copy but also 4 reserve copies which could be checked out for up to 24 hrs.</p>
<p>Help like this allows a student to do his best and not miss assignments or get behind due to factors beyond his control. And while I have no experience in the matter, my guess is that a strong support network kicks in very quickly, should a student miss class regularly or do poorly on his exams.</p>
<p>I don’t really know if this thread is serious but just tossing in a kid’s perspective here.</p>
<p>For me and other similar people, it’s really tiring to always try and find people that are like you. I used to go to a really good high school and now attend a different one. While there are things that #2 does better than #1, the student bodies could not be more different. A lot of the kids simply don’t care and that’s really difficult for me to relate to. It makes for uninspiring class discussions at times and curbs my enthusiasm for learning. Mind you, this is just HS, where I can probably find other venues for having fun. However, in a college setting, especially in rural areas, most of the social life is likely centered around the college. As such, it is difficult to get away. </p>
<p>At my other high school, people were valued for being smart. It was ‘go hard, go hard, go hard’. Everyone cared. It was a pretty collaborative culture, far more than school #2. Classes were streamed into honors/AP very early and there were tons of resources available. It was the right environment for me. </p>
<p>So yeah, I think the pool of students is what counts and sometimes the resources/references for certain professions. For instance, I want to be a clinician scientist and greatly enjoy research so I might look at schools that have research that interests me. I know most undergrads aren’t really picky about what they do, but many of the really intense science fair/early lab kids have developed specific ‘packages’ or ‘areas of interest’ that top schools might do better than others. I think that’s only relevant for really focused people, but that might be a factor. </p>
<p>Not saying that going to a less well known school is wrong, of course! People have different circumstances. However, I am personally skeptical about the ‘advantages’ people claim that you’ll have by interacting with a student body that is more diverse ability wise. It’s not like you can’t understand that people are different or learn how to interact with them if you attend an ‘elite’ school. All that takes is a sense of reality and humility. Interacting with people isn’t that hard! All it takes is knowing how to smile, speaking politely, and treating everyone with respect. ;)</p>
<p>DD1 & DS both attended schools costing 50-60K with good US News rankings. Many of DS’s classmates landed jobs in the west coast making six figure salaries and in very dynamic markets - we don’t know how big a role his school’s (or at his department’s) reputation played, or if this is a temporary bubble, but for now, we’re absolutely thrilled. DD1’s classmates had, from what I can tell based on anecdotal stats, pretty mediocre placement compared, for example, to a good state flagship, so we weren’t that impressed by the boost the name provided.</p>
<p>Because gaining admission to a top school is not a guarantee for most of the students. It is very easy for one to say that “we never want to look at HYP” because of … … What make you believe your kid will get into one for sure? Even being the #1 of a small private HS does not mean you would get into a top school. </p>
<p>If you take a close look at the the posters in this and other similair threads. I would say those have (had) kids in the USNews top 10 schools mostly are saying positive things. Those who have no kids in even top 50 schools are mostly saying “no worth it”. Well, if you can’t get into one, there is no point of debating.</p>
<p>^True, Dad II. You can’t compare it to something like a car, where everyone would, in theory, be able to buy a particular car, given an adequate amount of money. (Notwithstanding those who can buy entrance to Harvard by subsidizing a new wing someplace :).)</p>
<p>It was my understanding that there are a) more than three or eight or 10 top schools in the country and b) that there are more than that number of schools that cost in the $60K range per year. Why is everyone focusing on HYP? </p>
<p>And GA2012MOM: Perhaps you meant to privately share your comment about another member of the CC community and accidentally posted your most candid feelings for everyone to see?</p>
<p>One of my D’s friends came by last night to chat with me. She is attending a directional state school and they asked her to join the honors program. She was a great student in high school, but had to work very hard to stay at the top. She was afraid honors would be too difficult, but she decided to go for it. She is very glad she did because she gets to live in the honors dorm. She said the first year dorms are wild, the smell of marijuana as you walk through the halls is totally overwhelming and it is always loud. She is relieved she is in the honors dorm.</p>
<p>From that perspective, top schools could be worth it because students may be more dedicated to learning and less dedicated to partying. However, if an honors college is an option, then you might be able to get a better experience from an academic perspective.</p>
<p>Sometimes, the state flagship is more attractive to recruiters because it is bigger – i.e. each recruiting trip allows recruiting more students than at a smaller school.</p>
<p>Once you get out of the top schools (10?), there is a fast drop off on the value of the degree from an external perspective. It becomes a more local issue (local employers know the school), or a national reputation in a particular field. A lot of the highly regarded, but not top 10, schools are more known for the people that go (and the contacts you make for the future) rather than providing an excelling (vs a very good, solid) education (finishing schools for the rich and famous???).</p>
<p>The cost/benefit of Flagship State vs. Highly regarded, but not top 10 private, is a much more difficult question, especially since a lot of Flagship State schools are highly rated.</p>
<p>And this was sort of my point a few pages back. Kids (and parents) who talk about things afterward pretty much always support their decision regardless of which way it went. They end up happy/satisfied no matter what they pick. In the case of the parents, they also most likely feel the human “need” to justify their decision, but from the kid’s point of view, they are happy (unless saddled with excessive loans themselves). The only time they don’t is when there was a really poor fit.</p>
<p>It is this way whether they applied to higher level schools and turned them down or not.</p>
<p>The ONLY people (who graduated and have jobs) I encounter who are not happy with their decision are those with excessive loans (upper 5 digits to 6 digits, not lower 5 digits) or those who feel college was overrated due to a bad fit. There are more of the former than the latter. The latter tend to have started with community colleges and transferred, so they may have missed the camaraderie of the 4 year school or they may simply have looked at college as a “fact of life” rather than an experience.</p>
<p>It does not surprise me at all to see everyone posting on here supporting their experience. That’s the norm by far (at least in my circle). Went to State U? Loved it - worth every penny. Went to top private? Loved it - worth every penny. Went to “other” private? Loved it - worth every penny. Went to cc then transferred? Worth the savings.</p>
<p>The overwhelming majority of successful people in our society did not go to one of the “top 10” schools. They’d laugh at your description of the “fast drop off” in the value of their degree from a “lesser” school. And the “top 10” thing is completely manufactured anyway. There is no commonly accepted (and unchanging) agreement as to what those schools are across the board. Are there great institutions in the lists you are alluding to? Yes. Are they the only ones? Of course not. What Creekland said is spot-on.</p>