Top Schools for Envir Science, Physics, & Drawing/Painting

Parents Forum
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<p>Paying3Tuitions: You do seem to know my dau—and you’re right on target with her passions & personality. She is passionately & intellectually curious about everything—from the time she learned to talk, she was asking me complicated scientific questions that I could never have begun to answer without the help of the internet & “google”. </p>

<p>She loves learning & prefers structured classroom experiences rather than designing her own independent studies. She loves the challenge of classroom discussions with her peers & teachers, & is very focused & present in her classes. </p>

<p>She has a great sense of humor & loves laughing. She’s a strategic thinker & an incredible problem-solver. </p>

<p>Writing is harder for her and although her creative papers are excellent, she struggles with getting started with a particular idea & thesis statement. As she & I talked tonight about the schools that have a senior thesis, we both think that a senior thesis might be a burden for her that would take away her fun & joy of learning her senior year. She wouldn’t mind a school with an optional senior thesis, but thinks that a required senior thesis has the potential to be stressful & to get in the way of her in-depth focus of her science & art.</p>

<p>When I said that she was without a “hook” that would set her apart from other top applicants at top schools, I was referring to strong, spectacular “hooks” (world class athlete, small business owner, etc) that would completely set her apart from other applicants to schools such as MIT, Columbia, Williams, Yale, etc. </p>

<p>Like most of the students applying to the very top schools, she does have the outstanding SAT scores & grades, an excellent art portfolio, & solid ECs with a decent amount of participation & leadership. But no amazing “hooks” that would set her apart from other talented, gifted students. </p>

<p>All of that being said, Oberlin might be a Warren Wilson or Bard-type college for her in terms of the strong environmental focus throughout all facets of the college, but different from WW & Bard in that Oberlin’s science departments have a depth & breath of scholarship & research that encompass many areas of science, including physics. </p>

<p>Oberlin’s winter term or J term is appealing to my dau.</p>

<p>weetbixmum mentioned Middlebury College along with Reed & Bard, & all would be good fits with my dau’s personality & academic interests. Plus, Middlebury has strength in science, art & the environment, & also has a winter term.</p>

<p>In addition to Oberlin & Middlebury, my dau found two other LACs with strong science & decent studio art programs that also have a winter term or J terms–Wiliams & Amhert. </p>

<p>Any thoughts on how all of these LACs might compare with each other, & with Reed, Bard, & Warren Wilson? </p>

<p>And how these LACs might compare with the middle size schools of Wash U, Brandies, Tufts, American U, & UVM?</p>

<p>paying3tuitions mentioned the importance of getting to know the campus culture at Oberlin, & I was curious about how any of you might compare & contrast the campus cultures of Oberlin, Middlebury, Williams, Amherst, & Grinnell.</p>

<p>Our sense of Oberlin’s campus culture is that there’s an openness to gender & transgender issues, an openness about sexuality & sexual expression (definitely using “parent” language that is more vague rather than student language about special forms of sexual expression :)), & the faculty & students have made a conscious & intentional decision to be cutting-edge in their research, science, politics, sexuality, food choices & understandings (slow food, vegan, co-ops).</p>

<p>The location of Oberlin, Ohio is not as exciting as the location of colleges located in beautiful mountain areas or in interesting urban areas, but I agree with my dau that if the school is right, it could be okay to live in a small town in the midwest like Oberlin or Grinnell. </p>

<p>Thanks so much for helping my dau think of colleges that match her interests & passions, & for helping us sort out the various LAC’s campus cultures & strengths. We are so grateful for your input & help!</p>

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<p>WhereTwo: Thanks for seconding Middlebury. The school’s ethos being centered on the environment is a significant plus for my dau. </p>

<p>We’ll research how much Middlebury offers in the science arena. Since she doesn’t know yet whether she wants to study biology or physics or environmental science, we wanted her to apply to schools that had strong science programs in many areas of science so that she would have plenty of viable options. </p>

<p>Thanks for your 2nd on Middlebury. Another very intriguing option for my dau since she also really enjoys foreign languages & they have a winter term & an outing club as well.</p>

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<p>paying3tuitions: Thanks for the additional outside-the-box thought about the SUNY-ESF, SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry. We were so focused at looking up some of the other schools that we forgot about your mentioning the SUNY-ESF program. We’re off to bed but will look at this one tomorrow, & it will certainly be interesting to read about what they offer vs what some of the more traditional LACs offer in this area. More things to think about—Thanks!</p>

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<p>My first thought is Bates. Huge outdoors club, great arts programs, small LAC size. No frats at all. My artsy DD loved the vibe there and felt the kids were very engaged and serious about academics, while still pursuing life outside the classroom.</p>

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<p>Bates & Middlebury seem to have the “vibe” or “campus culture” that fits my dau. </p>

<p>While my dau seems almost middle-of-the-road compared to some of the Oberlin students, she would definitely fit in with the Oberlin students.</p>

<p>Will continue reading to see how she would fit with the intellectual climate & the campus culture of these other schools such as Reed, Colorado College, Williams, Amherst, etc.</p>

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<p>My daughter was going to attend design school, but I encouraged her to go for a regular college & take art there.( it is easier to do art on the side- than science! :smiley: )
She ended up at Reed with a biology degree. Reed allows all students even if they are not taking arts courses to use the studios.
However, she found that art took up so much time & she took up knitting along with music courses for her creative outlet.
( I would also advise that she was so busy with reading/homework, that she did not even take magazines to read on train while on holiday breaks- so Reed probably isn’t the place for someone who wants balance. :wink: )</p>

<p>Evergreen State College is a public liberal arts college ( in Wa) with a strong environmental focus, however I can’t speak to the availability of the art studios if you are not taking classes. ( politically, very similar to Reed & Hampshire)
[Sustainability</a> at Evergreen](<a href=“http://www.evergreen.edu/sustainability/]Sustainability”>Sustainability | The Evergreen State College)</p>

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<p>Amherst and Williams both have hugely challenging and engaging academics. Williams is very remote, in a very small town, so all life revolves around campus. Hurricane Irene washed out one of the main roads in, although I would guess that will be fixed very soon. Amherst is in a larger town along with 30,000 UMass students. There are 3 other colleges a short bus ride away, and easy access to NY and Boston.</p>

<p>Both schools are Nescac powerhouses that regularly send teams to Div III national finals. There is a significant amount of sports focus in the social life on campus. Both also have strong performing arts programs (Williams more drama and Amherst more music - particularly voice). I believe they also both have art museums - Williams has two, both very good.</p>

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<p>Is she open to women’s colleges? Smith has both a great art program \as well as top science program. Many of the other 7 sisters schools also have good science and art programs, though of course IMO Smith is the best :slight_smile: Smith has a great Environmental Studies and Public Policy program, which includes a field station in Whately, MA; Smith has a memorandum of understanding with NOAA that provides students with internship opportunities in Environmental Science. They also work with the Organization of Tropical Studies to support 10 undergrads to do research in Costa Rica, and several other great internship opportunities, more info here: <a href=“http://www.science.smith.edu/departments/esp/about.html[/url]”>http://www.science.smith.edu/departments/esp/about.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Smith has a community garden and much of its food for its dining halls is locally sourced. There’s a big overall campus culture of sustainability and care for the environment (bio-degradable packaging and silverware, CFC lightbulbs, solar power, the new engineering building is Silver LEED certified, etc). </p>

<p>And of course, Smith has a strong art program, not just in traditional drawing/painting, but also in areas like printmaking (really cool printmaking presses), and there’s an amazing campus art museum, one of the best collegiate museums in the country. Plus Northampton is a really cool town, lots of art, music, theatre, etc.</p>

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<p>emeraldkity4–Our main concern with Reed is whether she would feel buried with homework & not end up taking or making the time to interact socially with others apart from studying together. Probably a campus visit will help her figure that out. </p>

<p>1012Mom–Our dau likes what she has read about sciences, art, faculty & the environmental programs at Williams. Her impression is that Amherst is a bit more preppy than Williams, but since the schools appear to be so similar, I don’t know if that is true or not. </p>

<p>Do you think that the campus social scene at Amherst & Williams revolves so much around sports that the kids not involved with any sports might feel left-out or somehow not fully a part of the community? </p>

<p>SmithieandProud–While she prefers a co-ed school so she can have regular, day-to-day interactions with guys as well as girls, she loves what you said & what she has read about Smith. Your comments on the science, art & environmental focus on campus really resonates with her passions & interests. It’s convenient to visit, so we’re putting it on the list. In theory, she prefers a co-ed school, but we’ll see what she thinks when we visit. </p>

<p>Thanks for your input & ideas!</p>

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<p>Glad to see Grinnell on your D’s radar - it sounds like a potentally excellent fit for her. Amazing facilities, lots of faculty mentoring, no distribution requirements, merit aid, outstanding sciences.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/grinnell-college/438138-why-grinnell.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/grinnell-college/438138-why-grinnell.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>@OP – based on your description of your D, I think she would really thrive at Smith. And since there’s no distribution requirements, she could really explore her diverse interests to the full. One thing for her to keep in mind is that Smith is part of the Five College Consortium, so she’ll have the opportunity to take classes at Amherst, UMASS, Hampshire and MHC for free if she wishes. And students from those colleges (including male students) come to Smith to take classes there. Also she can participate in extracurriculars at the other colleges, attend events and parties at those schools and students from those schools come to Smith to party and participate. It’s not the same as going to a co-ed school, and it takes time to travel by bus to other campuses (but the bus is free!), but Smith is also not a convent. Plus, besides the social benefits, there’s the academic benefit of being able to draw on courses and research from other campuses. </p>

<p>Most of the other women’s colleges have a similar kind of consortium agreement, as do many co-ed colleges.</p>

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<p>SmithieandProud–My dau & I both really like how Smith, Amherst & UMASSS are in a consortium together— more options for classes so that you can expand the depth & breadth of your major. How long of a bus ride to Amherst from Smith, do you think? I’m thinking 30+ minutes, but I just looked it up & it’s only 8 miles & just takes 18 minutes by car. U MASS is just 1+ miles & 5-7 minutes by car to Amherst College, so doing cross-registrations seems like a viable option.</p>

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<p>M’s Mom & Others–I just finished reading the “Why Grinnell?” thread. Most of the posts were excellent, & I particularly found BethieVT, Mythmom & your posts helpful since your kids seem to have some similarities with my dau & considered the same schools as my dau is considering. </p>

<p>I think BethieVT mentioned shuttles to Mnpls at breaks, which would be enormously helpful & far less expensive than flying into Des Moines.</p>

<p>Grinnell’s facilities look incredible. The students sound like smart, creative, interesting, non-pretentious & genuinely authentic, down-to-earth & accepting. And friendly & nice.</p>

<p>Do you know if the faculty tend to live in Iowa City, or if most of the faculty live in the Grinnell area?</p>

<p>I’ll look on their website to read more about their environmental focus, physics & other science majors, & their studio art. </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>

You would be surprised how much of a bonding experience studying is with the workload at Reed. That being said, I am taking three courses with ample reading and still manage to work at least 11 hours every week, go to parties on the weekend, go hiking every once in a while, head downtown, etc. One’s success at Reed depends on will power and time management.</p>

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<p>Yes, by car it’s only about 20 minutes to Amherst if there’s no traffic, and maybe a little less to UMASS (but UMASS is a huge place, so it can be a bit further from entering campus to getting where you want to go). </p>

<p>However, most students go by bus (the buses between the Five Colleges are free for students), and the bus takes longer. There’s an express bus to UMASS that takes 20-30 minutes each way. The bus to Amherst from Smith unfortunately takes about an hour, because Amherst is the last stop on the route (that bus goes first to the mall, then UMASS, then Amherst town center, then Amherst college). On the way back it’s shorter, cause the return route is straight from Amherst college to Smith. That can be annoying, but when I took classes at Amherst I actually really liked having the time to read/do homework/listen to music or just chill, and the ride goes quickly. Many students also car pool with older students (first years aren’t allowed to bring cars) or bike to classes, there’s a great Northampton-Amherst bike path, so you can definitely make the trip shorter if you want. </p>

<p>Bottom line, participating in the consortium takes planning, but it’s very do-able. And they make registration easy for students. I’d be happy to discuss more Smith things via PM or please feel free to visit the Smith message board on CC, lots of students and parents post there.</p>

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<p>You had a question about the UVM Honors College. Yes there is an Honors dorm, one of the nicest on campus. My daughter is a freshman in the Rubenstein school of Environment and Natural resources, which I’ve been very impressed with. It is like a school within a school, and there are special small Honors seminars for the Honors students. It seems to have all the qualities you mentioned in your original post, and though the school overall may not have the reputation of Middlebury or Oberlin, my daughter has found it to be a wonderful environment, and Burlington is hands down the nicest college town I’ve ever seen. And as far as involvement in environmental sustainability is concerned, everything is green, green, green.</p>

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<p>zchryevns–really excellent point re bonding w studying together. it’s actually a great way to connect with like-minded people with passion or at least interest in the same courses that you are. your comment re bonding w studying is very insightful & excellent for me to hear. thanks!</p>

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<p>BurkeSt–I went online & read all about UVM’s honors & envir program, & it all sounded strong. I didn’t check out-of-state tuition but it clearly couldn’t be more expensive than the LACs that we’re looking at. Thanks for your comment. Although we won’t be making a decision based on closeness of the airport—even though some of these fabulous schools are a distance from the main airport in the area—it sure is tempting. Also plus for places like Reed, Brandeis, Tufts, UVM—ease of travel for both the student & parents.</p>

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<p>the faculty at Grinnell live in Grinnell! I’m assuming you’re asking that to be sure that the students interact with them? The students can have close relationships with their professors, and it seems to me that the professors get to know the kids’ interests and capabilities quite quickly. </p>

<p>I would not think it would be possible to take the shuttle to Minneapolis and fly home from there. The shuttle schedule is actually pretty limited. My son started the college process saying he didn’t want to fly to college (he hates flying, but doesn’t mind being away from home), but he ended up picking Grinnell over schools in driving distance, which included Bates, Bard and Brandeis.</p>

<p>So, to come home, not only does he have to fly, but he usually has to take two planes! He is able to make a non-stop back to school; Continental has one a day; it leaves Des Moines too early to come home that way, though. He did catch a ride once to the Chicago airport, but the shuttle really doesn’t work for getting him home to the East Coast (not sure where you’re from).</p>

<p>I don’t think that hiking is that big at Grinnell (although I would check this out directly with someone currently involved in the outdoor program); or at least hikes up big hills! </p>

<p>The biking is wonderful there, though. The countryside is really gorgeous and it takes a minute to get out into the wide open spaces. They have a restored prairie that they use for biology, art and other classes, and it’s a beautiful place. </p>

<p>There are photos of the art studios online; they look well-equipped to me! </p>

<p>Grinnell is a small town, but it has a friendly, midwestern feel, and my son really likes getting to know another part of the country. His friends are from all over the world, too.</p>

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<p>Well if she likes Smith, but wants coed, she could consider Hampshire. It has a very vocal student body and significant interaction between students and profs. Most classes are more seminar based than lecture. Students design their own academic programs so have to be self starters, but take advantage of all the resources/campuses in the 5 college consortium. [Five</a> Colleges, Incorporated: Home](<a href=“http://www.fivecolleges.edu/]Five”>http://www.fivecolleges.edu/) With Hampshire in the middle of the other 4 colleges, the bus ride is quicker (15 minutes except for UMass).
Your D would have to do a senior research project, but it does not have to be a paper per se.
Sustainability and environmental sensitivity are really important on campus. [Environmental</a> Sustainability](<a href=“http://www.hampshire.edu/10669.htm]Environmental”>http://www.hampshire.edu/10669.htm) My D is studying Ecology/Env. Science and Animal Husbandry.</p>

<p>My D thought that it was a school for hippies/flakes before she visited, and while there is a significant alternative vibe for some- it is mostly a collection of engaged students passionate about their interests. Drug use is not universal, but not uncommon either. The main complaint my D has is the food, and she hopes to take a class at Smith next semester at lunch time to take advantage of that campus’ much better eating options (for carnivores anyway). (The last comment is for SmithieandProud. :wink: )</p>