Top tier college education worth it ?

<p>I’m going to Amherst next year and I’m looking through recent alums who work in finance and consulting through the career network. Most of them majored in Economics and/or Poli Sci/History/American Studies. Very few came from science backgrounds, and surprisingly very few majored in math.</p>

<p>@dustypig:</p>

<p>Big structural changes like automation/AI will disrupt industries. That’s what happened to law.<br>
As for STEM, frankly, that’s too broad a term but on a more meta-level, do I believe that many jobs will require more quant and/or analytical skills than they did in the past? That seems likely. The liberal arts skills of reading deeply, writing cogently, and thinking critically will still be important, but so will understanding statistics, economics (or at least dynamics of social systems, which history and poli sci provide as well) and coding. Those will be considered liberal arts skills by the time we’re old and senile, I believe.</p>

<p>BTW, while there are more folks going in to CS (which goes through huge boom/bust cycles), it’s not like folks who are bad at math will suddenly decide to become math or physics majors. This country still produces far more psychology majors than all the physical science, CS, math, and statistics majors added together.</p>

<p>Bottom line for the original poster: you absolutely do not have to attend an elite school to get a good job.</p>

<p>And it is sad when pressure to get into a top school affects high school life in terms of stress, and in preventing you from exploring genuine interests.</p>

<p>I hope that a guidance counselor or therapist can help this situation and, again, that counselor might be most effective if aware of the cultural factors involved in this kind of parental pressure.</p>

<p>Even the E in STEM, not all engineering majors have the same opportunities, pick the right field seem to be the best advice.</p>

<p>@shawbridge‌
I agree, the field of study is much more important than “prestige.” For example, an engineering degree from Texas A&M University will likely have better ROI, starting salary, and employment opportunities than a Divinity degree from Columbia University.</p>

<p>@PurpleTitan‌, I’m biased but I think being able to draw sensible conclusions from data and make decisions under uncertainty – which is what statistics is about when taught properly, which it usually isn’t – are among the most important things people can learn in college both for work and for life (e.g., how to interpret the latest study on the effects of eating kale or peaches or the benefits of walking one mile a day versus triathaloning on longevity. </p>

<p>@dustypig, I agree there are cobweb cycles in fields like engineering (this has happened before, don’t know what is happening in law as I suspect per @PurpleTitan‌ that some of that is structural) and is no doubt happening in CS. However, our country is so bad at teaching math that it will take a while for supply to catch up. Our teachers for the most part are pretty math illiterate (or innumerate per Paulos) as are our politicians (who may also require classes in logic, but who’s quibbling). It seems pretty fashionable or at least pretty socially acceptable in the US to say that you can’t do math or never understood it or don’t like it – a lot more so than saying you can’t read or don’t understand literature or poetry. I saw the incoming class for a prestigious university’s admits for masters programs in statistics and data science. Roughly 15 males and 15 females. The males were 1/3 Caucasian (domestic and international), 1/3 Indian, and 1/3 Asian (largely Chinese and largely Chinese nationals). The 15 females were 100% Chinese (half Chinese-American and have Chinese nationals). This suggests our culture discourages encourages females (other than those with Chinese cultural overlay) to go into math-related areas, which at the moment are relatively lucrative areas. I think it will take quite a while to shift the culture. I suspect that @PurpleTitan‌ is correct that we have so many more psychology and sociology and gender studies etc. majors than majors in math-y fields that it will take a long time for the boat to change directions in a meaningful way. Incidentally, please don’t get mad at me for devaluing these majors – I am not but am just commenting that the path to solving OP’s problem of earning a comfortable living to support a family is much more likely done in math-y fields.</p>

<p>@DrGoogle, I think you are agreeing with me. I said the field that you choose is likely to matter a lot more than the school in terms of income. Some but not all STEM fields are currently winners.</p>

<p>I actually agree with you but even in engineering, for example nuclear engineering is great and for the geniuses but certainly not that many opportunities in commercial than EECS.
I also agree with this learned helplessness(I think you coined the term a while few years back) regarding math. For example, EECS at UCB are 80-90% Asian such as Indian, Chinese. Maybe all the non-Asian went to Stanford? :D</p>

<p>I think education is the best thing you can spend your money on, but that is if you have it. If you live in a state with a good and reasonably priced flagship (especially California, Texas, Georgia, Florida, Michigan, Virginia, etc.) you can get a great education and still find plenty of the most brilliant students and endure less financial hardship if you don’t have the money. Georgia Tech tuition is apparently free for the top students in state. People will argue that Ivies give good financial aid, which is definitely true. However, they do not give merit aid and the culture and social life is catered to students who have money. This is not to say people in lower socioeconomic positions shouldn’t come, they are often among the most determined students on campus and add a lot to the culture. It’s just that they should be aware that it may feel alienating to them.</p>

<p>To the original poster, just in case: you do not have to major in science, technology, engineering or math (STEM) to be successful in life.</p>

<p>Do what interests you and what you are good at and go from there. Volunteer or intern during college. The job market is complex and not easily categorized. I wish your parents could learn more and have more faith, but understand their nervousness.</p>

<p>Hope you can have a reasonable schedule and enjoy high school!</p>

<p>@DrGoogle‌, I’m flattered. I have actually coined a number of useful and even oft-repeated phrases in my field of expertise. Alas, learned helplessness is not one of them (also not in my field of expertise). Martin Seligman, a psychology prof at Penn, wrote a brilliant book called Helplessness where he laid out the idea and I’m sure used the term. </p>

<p>You must have used it here, that’s what I remember reading from your posts. :D</p>

<p>Adding to @compmom, I would say that it’s also important to learn in fields that challenge you and give you skills (so not just what interests you).</p>

<p>Most people have multiple interests, after all.</p>

<p>So say that you are equally interested in philosophy, economics, and sociology.</p>

<p>Knowing economics will benefit you in our economy and give you knowledge that many companies value.</p>

<p>Philosophy will sharpen your mind. Anyone who gets through a good philosophy program will have good logic skills and be able to read dense texts and make convincing arguments. Sociology, I’m not so sure of the benefits there.</p>

<p>I do feel sad when I hear of folks who, near the end of a major in psychology or a field like that, realize that they’re not really all that interested in the field after all and don’t want to do stuff related to that field. Majors that give you skills at least leave you better off even if your interests change.</p>

<p>@Poeme‌
Will a lower SES, Pell Grant-qualifying student really feel “more alienated” in the environment of, say, Cornell, than in UT Austin’s?
Of the institutions above, one of them is noted for its failure to increase the number of low income, Pell-worthy students. The other is embraced due to its accessibility for lower SES students.</p>

<p>Well according to US news, UT Austin has 29% of students receiving pell grants vs. 17% at Cornell. UT Austin is also significantly bigger than Cornell.</p>

<p>The way one spends their money on education is a personal choice. Going to a school like Cornell or another Ivy is always a great investment and there is a reason that these schools have such wonderful reputations. The faculty are great, there are an incredible amount of opportunities on campus, and there is a great community of intelligent and hardworking students. But I also understand why people choose to stay in state if money is tight. What I said about alienation has to do with the fact that Ivies have a lot of students who are incredibly wealthy and have very visible social lives as well as less economic diversity. This may bother some people, but is more a fault of the campus culture that needs to improve.</p>

<p>I think part of the original point was that the poster did not want to suffer extraordinary stress in order to meet parental pressures to go to an Ivy or other elite school. In other words, is it worth it to suffer in the way the OP seems to be suffering, in order to get into these schools? And he seems worried about his parent’s ideas that if he doesn’t go to a top school, he won’t be able to support himself and/or “succeed.”</p>

<p>His parents are under some misconceptions that may be cultural. It would help if someone outside the family, like a guidance counselor or therapist, could help with the misconceptions as well as the pressures on the OP.</p>

<p>Of course people do fine graduating from colleges that are not Ivies etc. I know many kids who went to state universities and colleges who are doing wonderfully. I confess to having had one at an Ivy and one at community college then a mid-range LAC, and there is honestly no difference in their level of success and happiness at this point. Thank heavens they went to a low key high school and didn’t suffer this kind of stress.</p>

<p>@DrGoogle‌, here’s an interesting link about why math education in the US is bad: <a href=“Why Do Americans Stink at Math? - The New York Times”>Why Do Americans Stink at Math? - The New York Times;