<p>Yeah George Mason has it systems engineering major i need. What about the 3 years vs 4 years though?</p>
<p>ash, there’s not really a whole lot to say about graduating in 3 years vs. 4. Maybe you have a lot of AP credits to cover your electives but the drawbacks to completing a degree in 3 years are, how do you do it without overworking yourself, and will you be able to get the course scheduling you’ll need- fitting in all the right courses can be tough even in four years. Beyond these things there are no hidden drawbacks, but I think they’re pretty significant.</p>
<p>ps- I myself attended both Mason and UVa. I went to Mason part time for 2 years before transferring to UVa to finish my engineering degree. Although Mason in particular has probably changed a lot since I was there, I recommend that you stay at UVa if you can. First, I believe you would see some fall-off in quality in many of the classes at Mason. There are good students and professors at Mason but in any given class you may expect a few people with deficient backgrounds or who for whatever reason don’t function that well in the class, and that can slow things down. However the most frustrating thing about being a commuter student at a commuter school is the difficulty of getting together with other students to work on projects or other kinds of group assignments, or getting help with something when you need it.</p>
<p>If you in yuor heart would like to stay at UVa…is there anything you could do to bring down the cost of attending UVa. </p>
<p>Could you get a job as an RA to eleiminate the cost of housing? Are there any paid research jobs or internships you could get to alleviate the amount of debt you and your family must assume? </p>
<p>Also factor in what the costs of commuting to campus may be–do you have transportation available? The cost of a car and parking and gas/bus or train fare? Meals on campus when not on a food plan? Obviously these costs do not approach the cost of staying at UVa but they still add up.</p>
<p>Is there any way your family could qualify for FA? Can you apply for departmental scholarships for upperclassmen?</p>
<p>One more thing to investigate is outcomes–talk to the placement offices at both schools and see how many interviewers come to campus and where and how many students are placed at the time of graduation or within a few months after–and with what employers.</p>
<p>Thanks for your posts,</p>
<p>Weldon,
What did you think of UVA? Did you feel Uva helped you get a job that you wouldn’t be able to aquire if you had gone to Mason. Do employers hire many Uva engineering grad vs Mason?</p>
<p>ash- when I actually got into the working world I found that my UVa education prepared me just fine; to be honest I get a little puzzled by other posters whoi claim UVa engineering is “weak”; I’d like to know the basis for that, since UVa is indeed a key recruiting target for lots of major companies. The environment may seem “softer” than some others to a lot of people, for the simple reason that UVa’s engineering school does not follow the sink-or-swim philosophy that a lot of big state schools do (for example, VaTech). But even if you put total faith in things like US News, I don’t think that being 37th in the country (out of several hundred programs) is too shabby. UVa did not help me get a job because I had my own contacts at the time. Nationwide I believe UVa will stand you in better stead in getting a job but GMU will be fine in the DC metro area, particularly in fields like yours. I do know though that Systems Engineering at UVa is a particularly “hot” major, LOTS of high-paying job offers for recent grauduates until the recession hit… Just as a little personal note, my son, who could have gone almost anywhere in the country for engineering, goes to UVa (and we’re out-of-state!). Hope this helps.</p>
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<p>Harvard is ranked somewhere in the 20’s or so for engineering, which makes it one of the best engineering schools in the country. </p>
<p>Put another way, if Harvard’s engineering is mediocre, what does that say about the hundreds of other engineering programs that are ranked even lower, including Virginia’s (and George Mason’s)? I suppose that makes them sub-mediocre.</p>
<p>UVa is ranked highly overall, but known more for things like liberal arts or law. 37th in Engineering isn’t exciting because many cheaper schools (even VaTech, which you talk about as if it were much worse) are ranked higher and send more grads to top tier engineering jobs. Quite frankly, a UVa degree merits a “so what?” in the engineering world.</p>
<p>Ranking isn’t everything, especially overall rankings. US News might say UVa is the second best public, but I’d place it a couple publics back. If we’re talking about engineering, you’d be a fool to try and pass it off as even a top 10 public. One of the main reasons the OP likes UVa is clearly because US News gave it a high overall rank, but that really is not helping for engineering, which is also one of the majors where rank matters least to begin with.</p>
<p>Weldon, as for your son, his decision does not in any way prove that UVa has a strong engineering program. It does suggest that he also looks a bit too much at a certain overall ranking, and possibly that you are either wealthy enough to send him anywhere he wants without a second thought, or that he doesn’t consider what debt will mean for him in the future. In either of those cases, his actions would not apply in the OP’s situation.</p>
<p>Long story short, there are some public engineering programs (Berkeley, Michigan, Texas and similar) that even put most of the ivies to shame, but UVa is not one of them. You will be in a better situation if you are employed in engineering and debt free than if you were employed in engineering and 70k under with a degree from UVa.</p>
<p>^ Completely agree.</p>
<p>Bottom line is you’re going to have to make 1 of 2 choices.</p>
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<li>Stay at UVA and accrue the 70k financial burden and experience the “residential” college experience</li>
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<p>or</p>
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<li>Attend GMU with less debt and live at home.</li>
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<p>If you want to look at this choice from an opportunity cost perspective, GMU wins hands down. If you play your cards right you can maximize your degree by:</p>
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<li>co-op at engineer firms DURING the semester in areas like DC and the Dulles Corridor (an advantage because the only colleges you’ll be competing against are American, Georgetown, George Washington, Catholic, and Howard)</li>
<li>finish a year early</li>
<li>less debt</li>
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<p>For those of you who might not have read closely enough, here is what the OP said. The differential between UVA and GMU for him is $21,000 and for his parents it would be $15,000.</p>
<p>Frankly, as a parent, I would be willing to shoulder $15,000 extra in debt if my child were happier and having a better college experience. While it’s a significant sum of money, the OP has not said that his parents are complaining about it–rather, it seems that he’s the one questioning things.</p>
<p>Then the question becomes whether it’s a good idea for the OP to take on an additional $21,000 in debt. This is a large sum, but probably not crippling if he gets a good job after college. </p>
<p>As I said before, the OP is making certain assumptions here–that he will be able to get the classes at GMU that he needs to graduate in 3 years and that, given that he will be living at home, taking a more extensive course load and probably somewhat upset with a decision to leave a school he loves, that he will do as well at GMU as he did at UVA. Given these circumstances, I would not leave a school I’m enjoying enormously and apparently doing well at, but obviously others may differ.</p>
<p>Dear openedskittles: of all the low-wattage posts I have read on this forum, yours is one of the worst. First of all, I’m not trying to “prove” anything about UVa by talking about my son, just suggesting that for many top students, even engineering students (including my son -AND his roommate-AND lots of his classmates), UVa is a very reasonable choice even if you have many alternatives. Second, you don’t know a THING about my son, and you are incredibly presumptious to assume or suggest ANYTHING about his thinking or motives - my only hope is that you’re some kid who’s too young to know when he’s being rude or foolish. One thing you did say makes some sense- ranking isn’t everything (including Engineering School rankings by the way), or my son would have gone to Cornell rather than UVa I guess.
One thing that you and “HulkHogan” apparently aren’t interested in at all is that I HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN A STUDENT AT BOTH SCHOOLS- get it? As in, I actually know what I’m talking about? If I were you I think I’d let the OP decide whether my advice relates to his problem.</p>
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<p>Yet therein lies the paradox. On the one hand, you say that the University of Virginia does not have a high engineering ranking (relative to other schools such as Berkeley, Michigan, or even Virginia Tech). On the other hand, you also state that rankings don’t matter much within the engineering world anyway…a notion of which I would agree, as long as the person actually intends on working as an engineer. An interesting phenomenon witnessed among many engineering schools is that many of the students don’t actually intend to work as engineers. For example, while the majority of MIT undergrads are engineering students, roughly half of all MIT graduates who enter the workforce will take jobs in management consulting or finance. Let’s face it, a UVA engineer, or even a Harvard engineer (actually, especially a Harvard engineer) is far more likely to obtain a highly lucrative position in venture capital or a hedge fund than will a Virginia Tech engineer, and certainly far more so than would a George Mason engineer. </p>
<p>As to why somebody who intends to enter those fields would choose to major in engineering, I would first say that most students don’t actually intend to pursue professionally whatever they had majored in college. For example, most history majors do not actually intend to become professional historians, most psychology majors do not actually intend to become professional psychologists, most math majors do not intend to become professional mathematicians. Many engineering students also desire a ‘backup career’ in case they can’t get the job they really want. A UVa engineering student who intends to work in consulting or finance (or head for law/med school, etc.) can still obtain a decent engineering job , for, as you pointed out, engineering rankings don’t matter much anyway.</p>
<p>Sakky has made some very good points. UVa will probably put you in a better position for some positions like consulting or finance. If those are not the kinds of positions you are interested in, you should be fine anywhere, including GMU. Many recruiters are interested in places like Harvard, UVa, etc, even though their engineering schools are not in the very top of rankings ,because they still have very good programs and focus on a well rounded education and employees that many of these firms are looking for. Like Weldon, my older son could have gone to many higher ranked engineering schools but chose UVa (instate)and is doing very well after graduating last May.</p>
<p>…and, just for the record “skittles”… when did I ever suggest that Tech was “much worse” than UVa? There is no need to get into that kind of garbage. What I DID say was that Tech has more of a “sink or swim” environment in engineering than UVa, and I stand by that statement 100%. I actually took my son to visit Tech as a GREAT possibility but he just liked UVa better - go figure! I also stand by my statement that nationally UVa is considered a key institution for many large corporate recruiters (so is Tech), while GMU is not, and that particularly UVa Systems majors have done extemely well in the job market- simple. I think this is what the OP wanted to know, not get into a debate about how UVa compares to Tech, or Harvard, or Podunk State.</p>
<p>First I would like to thank Weldon for all the insightful advice he has given. As a student who went to both colleges and his conversation here, i can see he knows what he is talking about. I have many friends at Virginia Tech and they do enjoy it. Just like your son, I would of definitely go Tech if I couldn’t get into UVA. I do acknowledge that Tech is the better engineering school, I chose UVA because I thought my future part, mentioned below, would be more accomplishable at UVA.</p>
<p>I do actually want to do something in the consulting field when i do graduate. In fact that is way I chose to do Systems, it is the most open ended engineering major and many take jobs in firms that are not just engineering focused. My plan is in fact to eventually get an MBA at a top tier school (Hopefully!). I would like to eventually do management in a company rather than start my own. In other words, i would like to continue the engineering path but not in a technical sense, rather a way to move into project management or managerial consulting.</p>
<p>$36k and 1 year difference. Losing complete reputation + you love uva. Decision should be obvious… stick with UVA period unless there are more reasons for you wanting to leave.</p>
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<p>This is an imperfect analogy. </p>
<p>Engineering majors are much, much more likely to become engineers than history majors to become professional historians or psychology majors to become professional psychologists or math majors to become professional mathematicians, etc.</p>
<p>OP, your last post suggests that you should stay at UVa. There is no question in my mind that you will have more flexibility with a degree from there than from GMU. You do have to weigh this against the financial sacrifice required from both you and your parents, of course.</p>
<p>I feel like your decision was already made prior to the start of this thread. You just wanted ppl. to validate your desire to stay at UVA. Good luck with your future but remember, the school doesn’t make you successful in the long run, you will.</p>
<p>-Hulk Hogan</p>
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<p>No analogy is perfect. And sure, I agree, more engineering students are likely to work as engineers than other majors are likely to stay within their majors.</p>
<p>Yet I suspect that engineers at certain schools - UVa probably being among them - are among the least likely to actually work as engineers. Let’s face it. UVa students, engineers included, are competitive for many of the prestigious non-engineering careers such as consulting and finance. </p>
<p>The sad truth is that engineering, while still a desirable career choice relative to most others, is unfortunately not viewed as being as desirable of a career as certain others. Let’s face it - most engineers are not paid as well as consultants and financiers, nor do they enjoy the same acceleration of their career path. I wish they were; I think they should be. But until that happens, we will continue to witness engineering students who don’t really want to work as engineers.</p>