<p>thanks for the insight everyone, this has been very helpful. i thought i would find a clear cut choice between Brandeis or Wake, but this has made it a very difficult decision. Both are great schools…</p>
<p>if you really can’t decide, go with your gut instinct, you can’t go wrong with either schools. best of luck deciding!</p>
<p>From my standpoint i think for an overall college experience Wake Forest has a lot of upside.</p>
<p>ok question: Which school do you think is easier to get a great GPA? Wake Forest is nicknamed “Work Forest” but I get the sense that Brandeis is no cakewalk. Any thoughts?</p>
<p>dubconrgress,</p>
<p>Wake Forest is also known by some as “Cake Forest”, so I wouldn’t put too much stock in nicknames.</p>
<p>I think that in this case there is no “easier” school, I might be inclinded to say that Brandeis may be harder. The nickname Work Forest means that you can’t BS any of the work. That A that you get in high school by doing no work will be a C- at Wake Forest. However, that is just as true at Brandeis.</p>
<p>dubcongress, you may be interested in looking over the [senior</a> survey](<a href=“Home - Office of Institutional Research”>Home - Office of Institutional Research) at Wake Forest. Students seem to be extremely happy with their experiences there. </p>
<p>In stark contrast, on average only [url=<a href=“http://www.brandeis.edu/institutionalresearch/pdfs/SeniorSurveydata.pdf]60.1%[/url”>http://www.brandeis.edu/institutionalresearch/pdfs/SeniorSurveydata.pdf]60.1%[/url</a>] of graduating seniors would probably choose Brandeis again.</p>
<p>In terms of grade inflation, Brandeis has Wake beat.</p>
<p>Dean’s List: 3.4 Wake, 3.5 Brandeis
Cum Laude: 3.4 Wake, 3.5 Brandeis
Magna Cum Laude: 3.6 Wake, 3.7 Brandeis</p>
<p>IB you do a disservice to the OP by continuing to negatively manipulate or overlook facts about these two schools when there is plenty of solid and relevant information for him to consider. First, the Wake Forest survey you cite is based on a small fraction of the 2007 senior class, so it’s not statistically significant. Secondly, you incorrectly cite the Brandeis survey–around 70% said they would probably or definitely choose Brandeis again. And 95% of the Brandeis respondents in that survey said they were satisfied with their undergrad education. </p>
<p>As for “grade inflation,” assuming your facts are accurate,you overlook the very real possiblity that Brandeis students get higher grades than Wake Forest students simply because they are higher acheiving students overall, even in the rigorous Brandeis academic environment. </p>
<p>That interpretation is entirely likely because it is reflected in the impressive acceptance rates of Brandeis undergrads into top grad schools, including med and law school. Those acceptance rates simply are superior to Wake Forest’s and vastly superior to the national averages. For example, Brandeis’ med school acceptance rate is 75% while Wake Forest’s is 60%; and Brandeis’ law school acceptance rate is 86% versus 60% for Wake Forest (interestingly, Wake Forest’s law school acceptance rate appears to be below the national average of 60% for law school acceptances). Here’s the source information from each school’s website:</p>
<p>[Brandeis</a> Admissions | After Brandeis | Graduate School](<a href=“Life After Brandeis | Why Brandeis | Undergraduate Admissions | Brandeis University”>Life After Brandeis | Why Brandeis | Undergraduate Admissions | Brandeis University)</p>
<p>[WFU</a> | Career Services](<a href=“http://www.wfu.edu/career/employers/quickfacts.html]WFU”>http://www.wfu.edu/career/employers/quickfacts.html)</p>
<p>Forgive the typo in the previous post. The national law school acceptance rate average is 63%, not 60%. Wake Forest’s rate at 60% is below that average. Brandeis’ law school acceptance rate is 86%.</p>
<p>dubcongress, law school admission rates don’t really mean a lot, as long as you work hard and do the best you can, you should have no problem getting into a law school.</p>
<p>I would choose Wake Forest because of the better environment but that is just my opinion.</p>
<p>Not sure where the OP is from, but Winton-Salem has much better weather than Boston. Also, Wake’s campus is simply beautiful, as well as its newly finished football stadium. The students are “upscale rich kids” (sorry to offend people, but people do say that in WS). I love Wake Forest, and I would most likely choose it if I had your decision. Plus, Wake’s b-ball team is up and coming! Go Deacs! 
Good luck!</p>
<p>Thanks all. Question for you: What are your thoughts on Wake’s recent decision to not require submittal of SAT/ACT scores? I sent mine in, but I am wondering how this may help/hurt Wake’s rankings/prestige in the future. Thanks!</p>
<p>Bowdoin doesn’t require SAT/ACT scores and this hasn’t hurt their prestige…a lot more schools are getting rid of the SAT/ACT requirements now a days</p>
<p>So is Middleberry…Honestly, the test-optional thing is, although backed with some humanitarian reasoning, a way for them to receive more applications and bring up their perceived selectivity. USNWR only requires a school to have 50%+ of their enrolled student’s test score to publish a middle 50 range. Even though Wake will “ask” everyone who enrolls, but did not initially submit a test score to give theirs, the students are in no way obligated to do so and Wake cannot demand it either. So, I am sure they will have less than 100% their students scores…and the ones that did not submit one most likely did not score high. So, Wake’s middle 50 will probably be a bit inflated. </p>
<p>Also, I am sure the % of kids in the top 10% of their class will rise (a pretty sizable portion in USNWR’s ranking methodology) because they scrutinize your grades more when you do not submit a test score…so, again there will be a rise. Then the increased # of applications (a 16% increase just in one year already) will make the acceptance rate to decrease, again making it look more competitive. </p>
<p>They will also be able to attract constituents which statistically score lower on standardized testing, such as minorities, low-income students, and first generation students…and all these students are sought by top colleges.</p>
<p>Really it kinda seems like a win-win for Wake at this point…but I guess time will tell.</p>
<p>OP, I have read this ENTIRE thread. </p>
<p>You can just skip all the diversity posts… the schools are both racially “moderately” diverse.<br>
You can skip the prestige posts … the schools are similarly ranked and have similar national prestige, with regional adjustments of course.
You can skip the “which is better for law school” because neither has an advantage.</p>
<p>Now, these two schools are VERY different in terms of CULTURE. And I read very few posts about that. As different as ice cream is from a brownie. as an orange is from an apple. As flip flops are from tuxedo shoes. One is north, one is south. One is more liberal, one more conservative. One is more jewish, the other more protestant. As different as Judge Brandeis from Judge Scalia. I mean, really how different can two school be? The only thing they share is prestige and being smaller than most Universities.</p>
<p>Being jewish is not a political experience, so what good is it to discuss racial diversity?. There is a northeastern US jewish culture, which clearly permeates Brandeis. You did not say whether you were Jewish. If not, you really need to learn more about this culture to understand if Brandeis will be a good fit for you.</p>
<p>Likewise, there is a culture in the South that trascends race. It is predominantly protestant Christian. I’m not really sure even how to describe this as I am not a southerner, but have visited enough times, read books by southerners about the South. You did not say if you are from the south or Protestant either!</p>
<p>Bottom line, you NEED to visit and spend a few days in each environment. This is more like dating than it is taking a test. You will be dating a culture for the next four years of your life. Don’t do it blindly as if from Personal Ads. Visit each culture before making your decision.</p>
<p>As the discusions in this thread make clear, the two schools are undoubtedly different in many ways and the OP should visit to make a decision on fit. However, the previous post suggesting that “there is a northeastern Jewish culture which clearly permeates Brandeis” shows a lack of understanding . Brandeis truly is a cosmopolitan and diverse school. The fact that the total student body is only 40% Jewish and 50% or less on an undergraduate basis demonstrates that there are a lot of folks that are not Jewish who feel comfortable in this cosmopolitan environment. A significant population of minoriites and internationals helps create this environment. Jewish culture definitely exists, especially if you’re looking for it, but I wouldn’t say it “permeates” any more than at other non-sectarian northeastern universities that have signifcant jewish populations. Undoubtedly, the Southern Christian/Baptist culture has a similar influence at Wake Forest.</p>
<p>Jewish culture doesn’t permeate Brandeis? Oy!</p>
<p>Yes, but only around 10% of Wake’s current undergraduate student body is Baptist. So, their influence could not be as great as the 50% of the Jewish undergraduate population in Brandeis. Actually, there are more Roman Catholics in Wake Forest than Baptists…</p>
<p>Rockeruy, you overlook the fact that around 95% of Wake Forest’s student body is Christian.</p>
<p>See:<a href=“Home - Office of Institutional Research”>Home - Office of Institutional Research;
<p>Your position is premised on the notion that all students who identify as Jewish share a homogeneous culture. In fact there are various nationalities, ethnicities and and even races among that religious group. But if religious belief is to be considered one “culture,” then the overwhelmingly Christian Wake Forest would clearly fail the “cultural diversity” test (its Southern Baptist roots aside).</p>
<p>
Did you even bother to read the page you linked to? At all? Or even look at the chart?</p>
<p>The pie chart on the page you linked to shows 70% of Wake students identify with some form of Christianity. A quick calculation using the data table yields the same figure.</p>
<p>“Negatively manipulating or overlooking facts,” indeed. I got my dissatisfaction statistic directly from the Brandeis student survey – an average of the past five years shows that only 60% of Brandeis students would choose the university again. In contrast, I have no idea where your 95% Christian statistic came from.</p>