Tough decisions?

College Majors Architecture Major
21

<p>Tzar, I think you have gotten good advice about the schools. More important than which school you attend, is what you do while you are there. Graduating mid-pack from either school will not get you where you want to go. Also when I hear about butting heads with TA's during a high school summer program I get concerned. Despite what you see in the magazines, architecture is not just about expressing some inner creativity, there is a craft and skill that needs to be developed. Go to school with an open mind, and learn what they have to teach. You will find your own voice, but you need to start with a solid understanding of the field.</p>

<p>As far as needing to open your own firm, each of us will discover that on our own. You will know whether you feel a real burning need for independence. However there are many places where you can have a great career in a firm. I have seen the management of firms evolve greatly over the last ten years, particularly on issues such as; training, mentoring, salary, and benefits. Do not settle for working in a poorly managed firm. Between India and BIM, CAD monkeys are an endangered species anyway, but I'm sure there will always be some grunt work to do.</p>

<p>rick</p>

22

<p>Head-butting with TAs can be good, so long as it is not a conflict but a discussion or conversation about the reasoning behind your respective points of view. I have found that I learn the best when I question the instructions of my studio professors. It is not that I disagree with them, it is more that I that way get to understand their reasoning better.</p>

23

<p>I like that term, starchitects, LOL.</p>

<p>Cooper does have a number of Starchitect connections in New York City. I got my first Starchitect job through a friend who was a Cooper grad. She didn't work at the firm--but she dated the hiring partner! ;)</p>

<p>In general, the way to get a good job or good client work is to tell everyone you know that you are looking for that job/work. Either school will have the connecitons you need to get a good job with a toe-hold in the high -design aspect of the profession.</p>

<p>In general <em>warning generalization to follow</em> Cooper grads tend to follow less traditional career paths than Cornell grads. The intellectual rigor of either program is the highest available. You won't go wrong.</p>

<p>After freshman year, you absolutely should have time to take outside electives. If you don't--you're not managing your time well and you are going to struggle to juggle a practice and a family. </p>

<p>I disagree with rick about Cad monkeys. Talented CAD draughtsmen will get priority in the job hunt. They do now. Check craigslist Manhattan if you don't believe me. I have CAD draughting options in China--New York trained draughting options in fact. That distance, first-world/third thingy isn't the optimum business practice, in my opinion. The optimum is to have the talent in your office--and sub out any grunt work. As my dad says, 'the cream of the corp will rise to the top.' </p>

<p>The future of the profession from my single offbeat data point...is a combination of trends---the use of 3D computer technology to generate design and specs a la Gehry----the use of new, sustainable materials and ---the use of new sustainable mech/elec engineering systems. Sustainability is largely an engineering issue, in my opinion.</p>

<p>btw...surreal confidence is an atribute in architecture. Headbutting can be an endearing quality if there is true talent behind the trouble maker. You don't know if you have that talent yet, Tzar. If you find yourself offside of many faculty memebers, you should temper your headbutting stance to take in information. </p>

<p>In the last two years of school, I had some fairly intense run-ins with famous faculty--but those head-butts were countered by equally lavish praise from other, more famous, faculty. Lucky for me. Keep in mind, I was/am not the right gender for the 'star' makers. Some of the conflict rose out of that basic pattern break.</p>

24

<p>In my opinion conflict with a TA- or professor is generally beneficial, IF TAKEN THE RIGHT WAY. One thing that I definitely struggle with is following directions that are poorly explained and not fully conceptualized. When you ask questions- and explain your stance, -you give the TA or professor insight from where you are coming from- or how you have initially interpreted what to do. I think that in whatever you do, you must be willing to change your ideas! During the Summer I would insist on explaining where I was coming from- and would ask more than my fair share of questions on where my TA or professor was coming from. Yet, once everything was said and done I used my new knowledge to produce something that was much more successful than my original product. In this way I think I am able to more fully understand concepts-- than if I had simply not questioned anything. If you don't ask questions and only follow directions/advice just as it is given, your ideas might never progress---- due to the fact that you don't understand what your previous concepts were or why you created what you did.</p>

25

<p>As long as you realize that a successful independent architect is one who smoothly persuades both client and contractor alike; ie no headbutting allowed--you should be sweet.</p>

26

<p>yeah, keep in mind...you can argue as much as you want, and do anything you want with that magical chipboard which can span thousands of feet long in school but in the real world, it's the client who pays...so you have to be very good at selling ideas. in the real world, business comes first, then architecture</p>

27

<p>In the real world, clients want to learn about architecture, they want to feel the creative buzz that you feel. Clients have the ability to build whatever they want. When they hire an expensive architect, it's becuase they want to explore the larger art in architecture. So says me.</p>

<p>That artistic salesmanship is part of Gehry's genius. It's part of the reason so many artists are attracted to him--and why one client paid him $6M in fees--even though they never built the house. Gehry must be very good at articulating and sharing his process. Good enough to get paid $6M for the process alone. Hello. </p>

<p>Pushing the barriers on materials is part and parcel of the profession. Crazy chip board models are more essential than you might think, sash--especially now with the use of reverse CAD engineering.</p>

28

<p>My deadline is getting much closer now- and the pressure is starting to build. Academically and environmentally I am leaning toward Cornell, however the money factor is starting to weigh in. The fact that over a 5 yr period- Cooper Union will be approximately 150K cheaper is something to really consider. In my mind Cooper really has a lot of questions behind it. I was E-mailing a current student and he really didn't seem to be thrilled about the program, he basically just told me to go to Cornell. Yet the program is very well respected and just 3 years ago-- (only thing I could find)--- they had a yield of 100 %. When it comes down to it-- does anyone really think Cornell is worth 150,000 more- in other words- I am in a little bit of a bind.</p>

29

<p>That's a whole different question... Is Cornell $150,000 better than Cooper? I would say "No Way!" Especially when the decision was already this hard for you without discussing the money. And that $150,000 could easily double through interest if it is acquired through loans. If I was that undecided between which school was the better place for me to be, one of the schools allowing me to come out debt-free would make the decision very easy.</p>

30

<p>Are you sure you are factoring in the cost of living expenses in NYC?</p>

<p>Are you taking on that debt--or are your parents paying? Can you travel on those funds if you don't take Cornell? Four summers of travel and intl programs might be hard to pass up.</p>

31

<p>Yes-- I would be budgeting over 20 thousand for Cooper-- which is over their estimates-- with Cornell tuition ever rising- right now at like 33k I think- which I get no financial aid on at all- I would be spending about 30K a year more than cooper---150k over 5 years. However, I wouldn't be taking on debt- my parents- while not rich- are not poor and are upper middle class and had been expecting this for quite a while- I could go to Cornell- have a meager budget without taking on any debt. I asked my dad and he said that the money not spent on Cornell could be spend on say a March II, more expenses or something of that sort. From an economic position cooper union would be better. Still a tough decision, in my mind anyway-- but if I can get some re-assuring opinions from someone who has been there-(and I am trying to btw--contacting cooper, ect.) and enjoyed their experience--- it would go a long way.</p>

32

<p>are you factoring in living expenses at cornell? cornell is 45K a year but I get by at around 37K because I</p>

<p>-live off campus, which is by far MUCH cheaper (-3K)
-get off the meal plan and cook for myself (-2K)
-get a job (+1K)
-not spend too much on some required materials that don't really need to be spent (-1K)</p>

<p>living in ithaca is far cheaper than living in NYC. also, during your fifth year, cornell hooks you up with a paid internship with some prominent firm in NYC if you take the NYC studio (which I highly recommend). most students here get about 7-8k during the summer working at arch firms.</p>

<p>cornell is a money sucker..no doubt about it. ultimately, you'll feel it but you also get a good experience here.</p>

33

<p>Crikey. Indecisiveness is not a good trait for an architect. Mkae the decision and don't look back.</p>

<p>Option A</p>

<p>Go to Cooper, spend the summers abroad at the AA and go to Harvard for an MArch.</p>

<p>Option B</p>

<p>Go to Cornell and do JYA in Italy and the UK.</p>

34

<p>So I just wanted to round this off--</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I think spending a few weeks deciding a fundamental design choice in school and the next 5 years of my life is pretty important--- so going back and forth while looking into their programs should not provide the label of: indecisive</p></li>
<li><p>I have decided to go route A. the Cooper Union - MArch Harvard
The money factor definitely played a role in this and I think I will get respect by attending either one of these programs. Ultimately the famous professors/practicing architects at cooper - the money - and the fact that I would be in NYC was too much to pass up.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I almost forgot – Thank you Cheers, Sashimi, Rick, Larat- and everyone else that weighed in. I really appreciate the advice and your comments- hopefully you will continue to help students like me during their process.</p>

35

<p>hey i'm a first year student at cooper union architecture...wish i could be have seen this post earlier...cooper is great and i've learned so much this past year, but just prepare yourself. no matter how ready you think you are the first year experience is always daunting. have fun this summer and if you have any questions just write back</p>

36

<p>Hey! That's great Tzar. </p>

<p>We want updates and observations--even if you have to post them under another name.... ;)</p>

<p>Good luck...</p>

37

<p>post some of the design assignments next year :) lol</p>