<p>I have been accepted to some good Architecture programs and am going to have a tough time deciding between them. I am just wondering what your opinion is on each. </p>
<p>For me it comes down to either: Cooper Union or Cornell (both supposedly amazingly good programs)</p>
<p>I have visited Cooper before and I went to Cornell?s architecture program last summer? but that isn?t to say that I won?t re-visit the schools a second time. Both schools seem to have a good reputation but is one more favored than the other? Also, I am from California and Cooper Union isn?t exactly a school with a huge reputation out here- so I am wondering is it really as good as it is rumored.</p>
<p>Other schools I was accepted to but have pretty much eliminated are
Wash U (4-2)
Pratt (barch)
USC (barch)
Berkeley (4-2)</p>
<p>The Cooper name goes far in the architecture community. People will respect you just for having been admitted to Cooper Union, before you even take a class there. Plus, free tuition's always nice.</p>
<p>a big difference between cooper and cornell is the price difference. that comes with obvious consequences of course. because you pay so much at cornell, the school has a lot more money to pay for resources. one criticism about cooper is that it lacks resource and things arent' updgraded that much. </p>
<p>i have two arch freshman friends from cooper who want to transfer out of cooper. their reason is that cooper doesn't provide the college experience that they wanted. at cornell, you get a great college experience and have a nice variety of other courses outside of architecture to choose from. that isn't to say that cooper is bad because it does have a good arch program, just a different experience. </p>
<p>i'm currently an arch student at cornell and i'm having a great time here. it's very intense but worthwhile. </p>
<p>congratulations on getting into both schools. i believe the admission rate for both schools has been in the single digit percentile.</p>
<p>Tell me more about what kind of architect you hope to be, what kind of classes you enjoy, where you hope to practice--what sort of practice you hope to have. </p>
<p>There is a MASSIVE difference in the two programs.</p>
<p>Well done to you, kiddo. Two AMAZING offers on the table. I'd love to see your portfolio--is it online?</p>
<p>I would like to be an architect in several different capacities. First off I want to be an innovator, a designer and a leader. I wouldnt be happy at all as a “task manager” of sorts or someone that isnt deeply involved with the creation of the final architectural masterpiece. I think you can tell that my favorite classes are art related or creativity based, however I do feel that I dont want to neglect some of the structural aspects of the field. As far as I can tell most schools are a little bit more conceptual and artsy, which I like, but I would want further knowledge in engineering to better understand what some of the limitations of architecture are and what boundaries can be pushed.
Eventually I would like to have an international practice and be one of the few big names in design. I know that isnt something that happens to very many architects and that many aspire to such goals, but never reach them. I really don’t want to be the “neighborhood” architect, but rather someone on a much bigger stage. </p>
<p>I know I must sound like I am out to conquer the world. Yet I feel it is better to have big goals and never reach them, than to have small ones that never test your limits or break any boundaries. </p>
<p>either school you go to, be prepared to work hard. both schools will work you very hard...lots of all nighters...very intense at times.. worse than the arch summer program</p>
<p>With that heavy professional slant on your artistic desires, I'm going to say you shouldn't pass up Cornell lightly. Besides providing an unmatched collegiate network for job placement, Cornell also provides you with opportunities to meet heaps of future clients in other fields--esp if you are an extrovert.</p>
<p>btw...don't commit to that Fame Game just yet. While you are in school, it will be hard to pick out the slimy underbelly of the Star system but take my advice...give Fame a good long ponder before you hop on that wagon. That is the default 'goal' in place in the profession, but that's only becuase it hasn't been seriously debated and debunked by practitioners who are living life outside of that box. There are bitter unseen negatives to chasing fame--chasing a fame like Frank Gehry has is like chasing an athletic talent like Michael Jordon had. Unlike architects and architecture faculty, basketball afficiandos have the good sense to know that Jordon was one in a million. There are maybe two or three seventeen year olds in the country who have been told they could be Jordon. There are probably hundreds and hundreds of architecture students and apprentices who think they can have a career like Gehry's or Le Corbusier's. Sheer madness.</p>
<p>Chase the opportunity to see the best work by the best upperclassmen/women. Chase the apprenticeship opportunity to work on the coolest projects with the best architects. Chase the oppoortunities to use those cool materials, that cool technology. Chase collaborative associations with talented engineers and builders and craftspeople and artists--but don't chase celebrity or fame. There is very little upside to fame and celebrity. </p>
<p>If you are talented--and so far it's looking like you may be very talented--though it's still early--you will become well-known by word of mouth. If you achieve your professional and artistic goals by quiet word of mouth, then the decision to add the downside of fame to your life will be yours. </p>
<p>In my opinion, it is worth postponing fame until the last decades of your profession.</p>
<p>*Even when you're at school you should be remembering Phillip Johnson's mantra--if you can't do it in eight hours, you can't do it. Get it done and get it done quickly and efficiently. If you think you are busy in architecture school, wait until you add 30 employees, 10 clients, 2 small children, a board of trustees and a spouse to your 24/7. Kids, you haven't BEGUN to experience busy--believe me.</p>
<p>well- I don't know how much talent I have at the moment- most architects take decades to reach there final creative state and I don't think anyone can really predict how good someone is going to be fresh out of highschool. </p>
<p>It sounds to me like both of these schools seem to command a great deal of respect. However, I would like to ask Sashimi about how much of the first year studio is "taught" by TA's. I know that over the summer, there was a lot of student-TA interaction, but if you wanted to talk to the professor you really had to stick your head out- Does this change at all for the undergraduate program? </p>
<p>Also, which one of these schools is most 'cutting edge' ?- because technology-wise it sounds like it is Cornell, ---but is Cooper Union more 'radical' in terms of new ideas-- being located in NYC and all?</p>
<p>the professors provide good insights and criticism every now and then during the critiques but you'll be working cloesly with your TA's during your first year. we have 2 professors for our 55 student studio, so it's not like professors can come meet with you all the time.</p>
<p>there is far more interaction with the professors after the first year, since there is a professor for every studio section (10-12 ppl per section).</p>
<p>cornell has always had a strong grounding in modernist ideas (think summer college with the cubes lol). The curriculum has usually centered around corb, mies, and mier types of work. This is what we call "old school cornell", and has been somewhat influenced by famous theorists who taught here like colin rowe and OM Ungers. Recently the curriculum is really changing with new professors coming in to teach. There is a good mix between old school (those who have taught here forever) and new school professors who teach very different things, and this adds to the diversity in the education. There are studios that have modernist leanings, and then studio work made from computer algorithms and very cutting edge stuff. Then there are studios that are very research oriented.
It's good to learn different ways of thinking architecture. Some schools I think are too heavily leaned on the "cutting edge" or the very contemporary and sometimes I don't buy their ideas. You can get a lot by learning old concepts. </p>
<p>If you go to cornell, you definitely won't be working with cubes like you did in summer college your first year.</p>
<p>I'll give you my 2 cents. if you want to go the career focused/star architect route then go to Cornell. Not that you can't be famous coming out of Cooper, but that is not what seems to drive most of the Cooper grads I have met. They were more focused on developing a very personal vision of architecture, one that may or may not fit in with fame, fortune, or at times a even job. </p>
<p>hold on for a second-- My whole vision isn't that I become a star architect-- and I certainly don't want to be known as someone who is just trying to get to the top-
Rather, I want to be someone who is more of a revolutionary or contributes something prominent and significant to architecture. I don't think anyone goes into architecture for fame and riches- but almost all of them have some desire to contribute and create. It is an artistic drive and a facet to contribute that motivates me to pursue this field, I don't need the large office with tons of clients.</p>
<p>My worst fear is that I become some small cog in the process- someone who is stuck in the non-creative side of architecture.</p>
<p>Tzar, I'm not in a position to advise on the relative merits of the architecture programs of these two schools -- except to say they are both great -- but I would profer the same advice as I would give a student interested in biology or history or creative writing: Chose the school that is the best fit for YOU.</p>
<p>Manhattan and Ithaca couldn't be farther apart. Same goes for the student body and the teaching styles of these two school -- you've got the North Pole and the Equator. Kids succeed and fail and both. You have to make this decision based on the environment that most suits your preferences.</p>
<p>If you are unhappy or uncomfortable, if you don't have close friends, if you don't like the social scene, if you're not at ease with your professors -- you will not do your best work.</p>
<p>You've got two splendid choices. You need to personalize the experience. Good luck and let us know how you do.</p>
<p>Tzar, by no means did I want to imply that kids at Cornell are all after fame and fortune, just that if that is what you are after, Cornell is a pretty good choice.</p>
<p>A 'star' architect is, by agreed upon definition, someone who is more of a revolutionary or contributes something prominent and significant to architecture. Frank Gehry is a leading contemporary example, so is Tadao Ando.</p>
<p>The two futures you described for yourself tend to be mutually exclusive. Architects who have international firms tend to be very astute business people--as opposed to earth-shatterring revolutionaries. They tend to make more money because they are good business people--or they hire good business partners. </p>
<p>If you rise to a level of Art that Gehry or Ando produce, you will have both international business AND revolution--but the odds of that happening are very very slim.</p>
<p>Meier has had the penultimate 'Cornell' career. Nothing revolutionary but some beautiful work built all over the world.</p>
<p>Gehry is a Cooper-esque personality especially in his obsession with materials and sculptural form. But he didn't graduate from Cooper. He graduated from USC and Harvard--go figure. Leibskind is the most prominent Cooper grad and he doesn't build much.</p>
<p>If you don't want to be stuck as a CAD monkey, open your own firm before the age of 30.</p>
<p>At the moment here is my dilemma- Cornell seems to be more structured in older more "modern" ideas, which have stood the test of time- Yet, in my experience with TA's during the summer - most of them are a little bit more close-minded and definitely identify themselves strongly with modernist ideas. Personally I like the explorative route better and during last summer was constantly butting heads with the TA's. In fact I think I probably argued with them more than any other student. At the end of the summer though-- all my arguing led me to draw up some compromises and begin to create a much higher level of work. My TA was especially good at helping students with there own direction, but at the same time giving them great focused advice. At the end of the summer I had grown in multiple areas due to the fact that my TA was very firm in his beliefs and didn't just cave-in to my every whim. </p>
<p>The fact is that Cooper Union has a more research and individual view of architecture and seems to be more compatible with my artistic goals. However, my experience at Cornell has made me wonder whether I need that type of strong guidance to open my mind to new ideas.</p>
<p>BTW- I will definitely take your advice on opening my own practice before the age of 30.</p>
<p>Make no mistake, Cooper has very very strong, very clever faculty. Cooper faculty also have a very strong idea about what makes a good architect. Cooper is not a loosey goosey art house. Building on Hejduk's notions of architectural education, Cooper has devised a curriculum which produces architects who are more interested in the nature of materials as they relate to architectural form and theory. They may have other aspects to the Cooper mission--but that's the distinction that I have noticed. As I've said, I love hiring Cooper kids--and working with Cooper grads. They always teach me something new about some new way of using or manipulating material.</p>
<p>You are going to get a good run at either school, Tzar--and you can build a great career with either degree.</p>
<p>the things you learn in summer college have not changed in the past 10 years so they don't complete represent what we learn now but the process is still quite similar.
...in our first year curriculum, the stuff we learn now are somewhat different from the cube excercises. Also, the curriculum has changed so much in the past 5 years that a lot of the things the TA worked with are different than what we learn. I also visited Cooper Union's school and the impression that I got there was that a lot of the things that they are learning are quite similar to what we are doing but Cornell. Research is heavily emphasized particularly in the 4th and 5th year..and the types of professors are very diverse. For example, currently, the two professors for first year agree to things on a larger scale, but never agree with each other on a smaller scale. One is more "modernist", while the other one is all into surface, algorithms, and a lot of contemporary ideas. Honestly, because I think cornell has more money, it has the ability to hire more diverse and great visiting professors. </p>
<p>Every studio has a different professor, with different mindsets, and different ideas. Ultimately, you're the one who has to decide for yourself how you create architecture.</p>
<p>Cheers and Sashimi-- Thanks for the insight. Cheers-- isn't the architecture world moving in just that direction- sustainability-- new materials-ect?</p>
<p>Earlier, many people talked about the connections of Cornell vs. Cooper-- but I would have thought it to be exactly the opposite. I mean- Doesn't Cooper have a lot of high profile architects because it is in NYC- ex. (Ricardo Scofidio)- wouldn't they provide some sort of link to the architecture world?</p>
<p>Another thing which I am interested in is the availibilty to take other classes-- I am definately committed to architecture, but would also like to get some experiance and education in other areas-- maybe physics or history-- Sashimi: I know that the Cornell program is very intense, but could you also take an extra class/classes outside of architecture while you are there? And if anyone knows--- Is is possible to take extra classes or things not related to architecture at Cooper-- or is that worked into the ciriculum?</p>
<p>connections of cooper and cornell don't necessarily come from the starchitect firms...most interns who work there, including those from cornell, often work for free and long hours. what you get from going to cooper or cornell is a large connection of different alumni in good firms who could hook you up with a position. </p>
<p>There is a science credit to fullfill as an arch major so you could take physics for that credit..along with several arch history courses. It is definitely possible to take outside electives, especially during your first and fourth/fifth years but usually you are limited because it becomes VERY hard to balance outside course work with studio work. cornell is intense, and studio work itself already fills up most of your time. I think one skill you learn to do very well here is how to BS your work in your outside classes..because they always become last minute work. There are some out of college credits you will need to fullfill.</p>