FWIW, and at this point I realize it may not be much, the point of how important getting a bid to the right house (much less not getting one at all) for many who seek out Greek life cannot be overstated. It is a big deal for a lot of kids, especially it seems the girls.
I personally know of kids withdrawing from WSU and Univ. of Arizona because they didn’t get the house they wanted. The D of a cousin transferred from Villanova after getting no bids at all. A colleague’s D, who surprised everyone with a USC admission (based on stats, it was very unlikely), was also “skunked” and received no bids. She stayed, but it has permanently soured her parents on USC, about which they were previously over the moon.
As I’ve said elsewhere, for many people, Greek life is the single most powerful symbol of “college life!” there is, and for many of these people it confers upon them and their children a degree of prestige and a sense of being elite because it is the product of having been chosen over others. It’s more than just ‘cool’. It’s a big status statement, and yes, particularly so in the southeastern U.S. Also, the more exclusive, the better. That’s why the huge focus on pledging not just any house, but the perceived “best” house or houses. Seems ridiculous to most of us, but it’s not to them. Trust me.
Sure, there are schools where existing Greek systems have been greatly diminished in importance. Cal has an active Greek system and I can vouch that it’s nothing at all like what’s being discussed here. But we are not talking about Cal, that’s for sure.
I think there has been a huge shift in the national organizations. I can only speak to two of the 26 (the one I belong to, and the one I paid dues to for my daughter). They have both adopted ‘no discrimination’ policies. Legacies no longer receive a bump for getting a bid (and that’s a VERY controversial policy among the alums who want their daughters and granddaughters to get a push). Any person who identifies as female may join. Members who make statements or have actions that are deemed racial or discriminatory are dismissed (several have been from Alabama sororities in the past few years).
I don’t think the houses are more integrated in the northern and western schools, but I think those schools are more integrated and may not have Divine 9 houses (or as many to choose from).
But since what has been happening to integrate at Alabama isn’t working, what do you all suggest? Close the 17 NPC sororities? That’s not going to happen since about 1/3 of female students live and/or eat at those multi-million dollar houses that benefit the university (university owns the land, not the houses). Force the Divine 9 houses to integrate, participate in the same rush process? Force the Divine 9 to also integrate so it is all more of a melting pot?
I just don’t see that happening.
I’d like to know how integrated the Divine 9 are, with not just white students but Hispanic, Asian, and mixed race members.
This is an example of how institutional racism survives and thrives. These sororities had racist practices a decade ago, but are untouchable because their faux plantation homes (and a whole heck of a lot of political capital) are deemed indispensable.
Can you explain the equivalence here, if any? I don’t see it.
@twoinanddone, while I don’t think it is at all comparable, I was going to pull the numbers for you regarding integration at the Divine 9. The breakdown was on the same page that noted that only 56 out of 7481 of the sisters at the previously segregated sororities were African American. Unfortunately, sometime in the past 25 days the University of Alabama has pulled the page from the website. (I know this because I accessed and linked the page 25 days ago.)
Perhaps with the attention from the documentary, the University isn’t interested in outsiders knowing how “desegregation” of these sororities has progressed.
Here’s the link, now dead. Maybe it’s just down temporarily.
The “documentary” was ridiculous and unless I truly missed something just click bait.
If you want to do “percentages” and numbers go to University of Michigan. Not so great. Or just pick a school anywhere. It’s an expensive club basically. Not everyone can join, wants to join or can afford to join.
The only real sane comment I read (from black greek house president) was that more sanctioned (national level) planned events are needed to actively promote bringing together the greek houses including the black sororities/fraternities.
Well, if the NPC sororities aren’t integrated, and they need to ‘go away’ because there is no way to make them integrated, then wouldn’t the Divine 9 also be deemed a non-integrated student group and need to be closed too? If all are to stay open but be integrated, wouldn’t all the houses, NPC and NPHC need to split all interested in joining sororities?
Are the Divine 9 going to be willing to accept members who are white, Asian, Hispanic? Are they going to be willing to change some of their customs and rituals to accommodate new members? I don’t know, they may be willing to do all that and if so, maybe it’s time to have some mergers of the systems.
Apparently, there are some non-Black members of the historically Black fraternities and sororities.
However, it is likely that there is not much interest generally by non-Black students, similar to the lack of interest generally by non-Black students in most HBCUs. The latter situation suggests that non-Black people largely are not interested in predominantly Black environments.
Pointing to the past and making assumptions on the values/culture of each individual sorority (all sororities) seems like a stretch. My guess their mission statements would not echo your comment. And we all agree that course correction for exclusion based on race is wrong how should that look going forward? It is easy to point out historical biases, but at some point everyone needs to move forward.
D9 organizations have a different history and mission than historically white groups. They aren’t just mirror images. Blackness is intrinsic to their purpose. They have inducted small numbers of non-black members for decades, but they do not now and have never claimed that racial diversity within their groups is a goal. So they don’t view lower interest from non-black prospective members as a problem to be addressed. It’s just a reality that most non-black people aren’t looking to make a lifelong commitment to this cause, and that’s what joining a D9 organization is.
National Panhellenic Council groups do not now, and never did, say that they are about serving white women or white communities – even though most of them were. Their whiteness was obvious but unspoken. Today, they do say that racially diverse membership is a goal and reject the racist elements of their history. They vary in how successfully they’re working on that. And with NPC groups in a big, competitive system like Alabama, a PNM has to visit them all and has a limited ability to choose which they join. Phi Mu, arguably the most popular house at Alabama, removed Jefferson Davis and Stonewall Jackson from honorary membership in 2020.
White supremacy is a loaded term and to suggest that it is ALL IN what shaped any sorority traditional or not is wrong. I go back to my question “how should we go forward?” Pointing back 10 years or 100 years will not change history, but we can change today and the future since rehashing the past is not productive.