<p>I stand by what that Ivy league Med School MD/Instructor told me. They likely have to deal with ORM’s, URM’s, legacies etc. like the ivies The ivies could fill 3 times over just on Val’s alone and more if you include the Sal’s. They would never need to accept anyone with lower than a 4.0 gpa then but they don’t.</p>
<p>Posts: 51 This was posted by Sakky in March of 2005 under" what if I don’t get into any Med School" discussion. This organic chemistry experience with the cutthroat nature mirrored mine at another school.</p>
<p>"Well, in one sense, that surgeon was right - there are fewer people applying to med-school. But that by itself, does not make the competition easier. I would argue that the drop in applicants is mostly due to a large drop in the less-qualified applicants who probably wouldn’t have gotten in anyway. </p>
<p>Take a gander at the following link from the AAMC, because it proves my point. Sure, the number of applicants is dropping. On the other hand, the GPA’s and MCAT scores of those who are applying is skyrocketing, as is the GPA and MCAT of those matriculating (which is a proxy for measuring the stats of those who are accepted). Basically, you need far better numbers (GPA and MCAT) to get into med-school today than you did 10 years ago. Look at the numbers yourself if you don’t believe me.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2004/2004mcatgpa.htm[/url]”>http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2004/2004mcatgpa.htm</a> </p>
<p>I just found this quote from Michael Crichton (yes, THAT Michael Crichton), who went to Harvard College, then Harvard Medical, before deciding that he’d rather be a writer. Crichton writes some nonfiction too, and in one of his books, he talks about his own experience as a premed. Here is a snippet. </p>
<p>“In general, I found Harvard an exciting place, where people were genuinely focused on study and learning, and with no special emphasis on grades. But to take a premed course was to step into a different world – nasty and competitive. The most critical course was organic chemistry, Chem 20, and it was widely known as a “screw your buddy” course. In lectures, if you didn’t hear what the instructor had said and asked the person next to you, he’d give you the wrong information; thus you were better off leaning over to look at his notes, but in that case he was likely to cover his notes so you couldn’t see. In the labs, if you asked the person at the next bench a question, he’d tell you the wrong answer in the hope that you would make a mistake or, even better, start a fire. We were marked down for starting fires. In my year, I had the dubious distinction of starting more lab fires than anyone else, including a spectacular ether fire that set the ceiling aflame and left large scorch marks, a stigmata of ineptitude hanging over my head for the rest of the year. I was uncomfortable with the hostile and paranoid attitude this course demanded for success. I thought that a humane profession like medicine ought to encourage other values in its candidates. But nobody was asking my opinion. I got through it as best I could.”</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.harpercollins.com/global_...60509058&tc=cx[/url]”>http://www.harpercollins.com/global_...60509058&tc=cx</a></p>
<p>Now obviously, Michael Crichton managed to do very well, getting into Harvard Medical. However, you should keep in mind that he graduated summa-cum-laude from Harvard College (meaning that he graduated in the top 5% of his Harvard class), and he got into medical-school in the 60’s, when med-school admissions were far less competitive than they are today." </p>
<p>Michael Crichton did need to b.s. about his Harvard experience because he wrote dinosaur novels.</p>
<p>Finally, my wife’s knee surgeon went to both Harvard and Yale. She repairs torn meniscus exactly like the other surgeons in her hospital. My insurance company did not pay her extra because she went to an Ivy Medical School. Her loans are likely higher than the other surgeons since the big three did not use their endowments back 10 years ago with parents with incomes under 150K. Now they do reduce tuition to 10 percent of parent income.</p>
<p>The insurance companies are the great equalizers now for doctors and students are waking up in 2011 to the disaster of tremendous student debt.</p>
<p>Norcalguy, </p>
<p>Combined UG schools frequently offer half MERIT rides and a few offer FULL MERIT rides Ivies do not . Their’s are need based. HYP offer need based for parents who earn under 150k. You take this figure and divide by 10 so 120k is 12 tuition plus 12K for R$B. The lesser ivies offer less money and have lower cutoffs for parental income so get those loan apps ready! </p>
<p>Most Medical schools do not have aid so why not use your UG tuition money saved for that. Or you can have the Gov pay but instead of the old 4 yr tour in poor areas of the US you must do 8 years or have the Pentagon pay and do a tour with them.</p>
<p>Many combined UG’s accept AP course credits. My D got 24 for getting 5’s in 7 courses so this can save you money. The ivies do not they just put you in higher level courses instead. Some kids knowing gpa is important for med schol app take the regular course instead to get automatic A’s Unless there is grad inflation fighting policies in effect at that particular school Many UG combined require regular physics not the calculus based kind at some Ivies.</p>
<p>Found this and another interesting post on same thread
It shows the number of combined apps you should do:</p>
<p>BigBDawg812
Junior Member</p>
<p>Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 79</p>
<p>My experience applying for Combined Degree Programs
Class Rank 7/777
Unweighted GPA 4.00</p>
<p>SAT:
Math 800; Verbal 750; Writing 760 = 2310 Superscore
Math 800; Verbal 690; Writing 760 = 2250 One Sitting</p>
<p>SAT II:
Math Level 1: 770
Math Level 2: 800
Chemistry: 790
US History: 700</p>
<p>AP (by the time I have applied to BS/MD programs):
Chemistry: 5/5
Physics B: 5/5
US History: 5/5
Human Geography: 4/5
English Language: 4/5
World History: 5/5</p>
<p>During my senior I completed six more APs:
(Calculus BC, Government & Politics, Biology, English Literature, Macroeconomics, and Physics C)</p>
<p>Major Extracurriculars:
Key Club, Science Bowl, National Honor Society, Science Olympiad, Band
Represented School in Science Olympiad at state level</p>
<p>Voluntary work a lot of hours at hospital and church</p>
<p>Some research experience with professor at local college; nothing published</p>
<p>Applied to the following BS/MD programs
- Boston University
- Brown
- Cal Tech
- Drexel/Drexel
- GW
- Lehigh/Drexel
- Northwestern
- Penn State
- Pitt
- RPI/AMC
- Rice
- Rochester
- Siena/AMC
- UMiami
- Union/AMC
- USC
- Villanova/Drexel
- WashU</p>
<p>Results:</p>
<ol>
<li>Boston University - INTERVIEW & SELECTED FOR PROGRAM</li>
<li>Brown - No interview</li>
<li>Cal Tech - No interview</li>
<li>Drexel/Drexel - No interview</li>
<li>GW - No interview</li>
<li>Lehigh/Drexel - No interview</li>
<li>Northwestern - No interview</li>
<li>Penn State - INTERVIEW, not selected</li>
<li>Pitt - No interview</li>
<li>RPI/AMC - combined INTERVIEW w/Union/AMC, not selected</li>
<li>Rice - No interview</li>
<li>Rochester - No interview</li>
<li>Siena/AMC - INTERVIEW & SELECTED FOR PROGRAM</li>
<li>UMiami - No interview</li>
<li>Union/AMC - combined INTERVIEW w/RPI/AMC & SELECTED FOR PROGRAM</li>
<li>USC - No interview</li>
<li>Villanova/Drexel - No interview</li>
<li>WashU - No interview</li>
</ol>
<p>I chose BU! I am part of the BU SMED program, Class of 2017 (seven year program).</p>
<p>Thanks to the poster above. I used most of your formatting.</p>
<p>Thanks Raycmr… I appreciate you posting 6 times in a row. I found it especially helpful when you copied and pasted all of that information… excellent work! I mean it’s not like a simple link would have sufficed… </p>
<p>(/sarcasm)</p>
<p>I copied 2 of the 6. I did it for all the private message people I’ve been getting.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The need-based aid at top colleges is quite generous. I’m sorry if you feel you shouldn’t have to pay anything for college making over $120,000 a year.</p>
<p>In addition, many lower tier colleges that usually offer merit-based aid specifically ban their BS/MD students from that merit aid. They know they’ve got you by the balls and have little incentive to give merit aid when they feel the medical school guarantee is incentive enough. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is not true. I went to an Ivy. I got credits towards graduation from my AP scores. So, you’re wrong.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You are never required to take calc-based physics at any Ivy. I don’t know what you’re talking about lol I never took any physics in high school and I still got A/A+ in 2 semesters of normal physics at my college. You certainly don’t need to be superhuman to do well at an Ivy. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The advantage of going to a top med school is getting into the residency in the first place. You have an advantage getting into competitive specialties (like ortho) by attending a top med school. If your knee surgeon had attended a crappy low tier med school, they might be a family medicine doc today instead of your knee surgeon.</p>
<p>Again, if you are drawing your conclusions based on what Michael Crichton, the fictional author, wrote about Harvard 30 years ago, you need a reality check. If you are going to go out of your way to provide information, you need to know what you are talking about instead of just making up stuff.</p>
<p>I look forward to another 6 posts of inane ramblings.</p>
<p>"In addition, many lower tier colleges that usually offer merit-based aid specifically ban their BS/MD students from that merit aid. They know they’ve got you by the balls and have little incentive to give merit aid when they feel the medical school guarantee is incentive enough. "</p>
<p>Can you name names? Undergrad merit is separate from combined merit at many colleges including places like Northwestern for FA and Pittsburgh.</p>
<p>All bs/md’s that D. applied to, gave her Merit awards from UG colleges, not the programs. She got very substantial Merit awards from UG, that rejected her from bs/md.</p>
<p>A few examples are Penn St.,UKMC, BU, and George Washington which specifically state that their BS/MD students are not eligible for certain merit/honors aid that are available to other students.</p>
<p>^This is unusual and might be specific to these programs. None of the ones that D. applied had this situation.</p>
<p>Those are just a few that actually openly state this policy. You can bet many BS/MD programs unofficially follow this policy. There’s really very little incentive for a BS/MD program to give merit scholarships AND a med school guarantee to the same people. The merit scholarships can be used on non-BS/MDers who otherwise wouldn’t attend the college.</p>
<p>Why a guy who didn’t go to a combined would come over here and throw misrepresentations is beyond me. I don’t know if he is justifying his Ivy League loans or what.</p>
<p>Re: AP credits at Ivies this article goes school by school and confirms what I was told at 6 of them while on tour 2 yrs ago:</p>
<p>Also if you live in NYC with 2 kids making 120k you will need help paying the 52-54K a year at the Ivies even if your father was an alum.</p>
<p>[The</a> Daily Pennsylvanian :: Ivies take hard line on giving AP credit](<a href=“http://thedp.com/index.php/article/2006/02/ivies_take_hard_line_on_giving_ap_credit]The”>Ivies take hard line on giving AP credit | The Daily Pennsylvanian)</p>
<p>Ivies take hard line on giving AP credit by The Daily Pennsylvanian
Princeton and Columbia allow an AP score of 4 or 5 to fulfill the language requirement. Harvard insists on a 5, and Yale demands that students take a Yale-administered language course, even if they receive a 4 or a 5 on an AP language exam.
But officials at the College Board, which administers AP exams, are unfazed by the Ivy League tendency to use AP credits sparingly, if at all.</p>
<p>Also 2 yrs ago TCMJ /combined UMDNJ gave you full rides to UG and Medical school . Seven years of free tuition merit. The Ivies could not beat that.</p>