Transfer to Cornell

<p>Hello, I'm currently enrolled in Syracuse University as a freshman and I'm looking to transfer into Cornell University but first I'd like your opinions on my chances. In high school I had a GPA of ~3.0 (I believe that it was slightly higher) and my SATs score was a 1330 (710 in verbal and a 620 in math.) I plan on majoring in philosophy and my current courseload includes Phi 191 - Ethics and Value Theory, Phi 251 - Logic, Chi 101 - Intro. to Chinese, Ant 121 - Peoples and Cultures of the World, WRT 105 - Intro. to College Writing, and a freshman forum seminar. I'm looking to pull a 3.7-3.9 this semester and about the same for next semester. I participate in my dormitary's council and am also a player in the squash club. My reasons for transferring would be to A) enter a better philosophy department and to B) enter a more intellectual culture. Also, I believe that I can get two glowing recommendations, one from a professor and one from a TA, that would bring my application together.</p>

<p>Do you think I have a chance to transfer into an ivy league school as a freshman? Do you think my chances would be significantly higher if I were rejected and attempted again during my sophomore year? Thanks for all the input!</p>

<p>how do you know you'll get good recs before you take the classes?</p>

<p>Can we look at this as a hypothetical situation?</p>

<p>Syracuse has an excellent philosophy department; for undergraduate studies, there will not be any significant improvement if you transfer to Cornell.</p>

<p>There actually is a substantial difference between the philosophy department. Also, graduate placement is substantially better at Cornell; and, lets face it, obtaining that ivy label never hurts.</p>

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There actually is a substantial difference between the philosophy department. Also, graduate placement is substantially better at Cornell; and, lets face it, obtaining that ivy label never hurts.

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<p>In undergraduate studies, there is not; I know students who rejected Harvard Philosophy for Rice philosophy and vice versa. It has no adverse effect on one's philosophy career. </p>

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Also, graduate placement is substantially better at Cornell

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<p>From where are you obtaining this information? That is not true in the least.</p>

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lets face it, obtaining that ivy label never hurts.

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<p>Instead of advancing trite statements, why not opine something substantive? The Arthur Kingsley Porter Chair of Philosophy at Harvard did her undergraduate studies from the University of Illinois; Professor Godfrey-Smith (I am unaware of the exact spelling), professor of philosophy of mind at Harvard, did his studies in Australia; Professor Van Inwagen, a world-renowned metaphysicist, did his studies in Belgium!</p>

<p>If you plan to transfer, at least perform some research that yields tangible evidence in your favor. Tired and vacuous statements will not suffice either here or on the application, and you should not apply if you cannot perform better.</p>

<p>Are you planning on going for a PhD or some other graduate degree? If you are going for a PhD, the writing sample and any papers you have published are pretty much all that matters (although getting into a top PhD program with an extremely low GPA would be tough). Where you do your undergrad is very important, however, if you are planning on going to law or medical school.</p>

<p>As for your chances, you would be transfering into CAS, which is significantly tougher to get into as a transfer than the other colleges. The acceptance rate is usually around 20%. It could easily go either way, even with a high GPA and good recs. Be sure you have a good reason for transfering, I think they might take the lack of an intellectual culture reason seriously. Syracuse is sort of known as a sports/party school?</p>

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If you are going for a PhD, the writing sample and any papers you have published are pretty much all that matters (although getting into a top PhD program with an extremely low GPA would be tough).

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For philosophy, there are many other factors that must be taken into account.</p>

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Where you do your undergrad is very important, however, if you are planning on going to law or medical school.

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<p>That is not the case; relative to earning a high GPA and LSAT/MCAT, where one graduates is not too significant so long as the school is respectable. Syracuse is well regarded. To be sure, Cornell might even place one in a worse position for law school admissions, as it is difficult to earn a high GPA, and there are many students with which to compete. It ranked surprisingly low on WSJ's graduate school feeder list.</p>

<p>nspeds, in all seriousness, what are your stats and where are you now?</p>

<p>(and the OP shouldn't feel bad, he does this to everyone in the major)</p>

<p>he's going to gtown, I think he had 1480 SAT (800 verb, 680 Math). Really low GPA like 2.3~ maybe. I have no idea his college stuff, but transferred into gtown which is very difficult to do.</p>

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For philosophy, there are many other factors that must be taken into account.

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<p>Like what? It was my understanding that even 4.0s with outstanding GREs, ug preparation and recs wouldn't have a snowballs chance at PNR type PhD programs without an outstanding sample or published work. </p>

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That is not the case; relative to earning a high GPA and LSAT/MCAT, where one graduates is not too significant so long as the school is respectable. Syracuse is well regarded. To be sure, Cornell might even place one in a worse position for law school admissions, as it is difficult to earn a high GPA, and there are many students with which to compete. It ranked surprisingly low on WSJ's graduate school feeder list.

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<p>I believe Cornell was 25th on the feeder, which isn't terrible considering they LACs were included. The rank is comparable to its USNews rank (which is probably to low) when you figure in all the additional schools it is competing against. I don't remember seeing Syracuse on the list, but that may be more a reflection of the calibre of the average Syracuse student. I think Cornell would be ranked higher if it had less majors that didn't lend themselves to prospective law and medical school students (e.g. hotel administration, apparall design etc)</p>

<p>I have a hard time believing a law school would take a 3.8/170 from Syracuse over a 3.6/170 from Cornell. Then again, you may know more about law school admissions than I.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.law.harvard.edu/admissions/jd/colleges.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.law.harvard.edu/admissions/jd/colleges.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>44 HLS students did their undergrad at Cornell
1 HLS student did his or her undergrad at Syracuse</p>

<p>I actually got this link from one of your old posts. And I know it doesn't actually prove anything. But 44 is still a lot more than 1, even when you consider the difference in the size of the schools.</p>

<p>not letting me edit the post for some reason, so change 3.8 to 3.6</p>

<p><a href="and%20the%20OP%20shouldn't%20feel%20bad,%20he%20does%20this%20to%20everyone%20in%20the%20major">quote</a>

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<p>Inaccurate posts reflecting negligible thought beg for correction. If you cannot deal with it, then do not beg for disabuse.</p>

<p>...and by the way, you committed a logical fallacy; however, I will not ruin your dreams of philosophical excellence. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the basics prior to being placed in a more 'advanced' program.</p>

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he's going to gtown, I think he had 1480 SAT (800 verb, 680 Math). Really low GPA like 2.3~ maybe. I have no idea his college stuff, but transferred into gtown which is very difficult to do.

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<p>1490 (800V690M, 3.92 College GPA)</p>

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Like what? It was my understanding that even 4.0s with outstanding GREs, ug preparation and recs wouldn't have a snowballs chance at PNR type PhD programs without an outstanding sample or published work.

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<p>Though work samples are good indicators, it depends on what your focus is. Philosophers who go into graduate studies know beforehand under whom they would like to work. A coherent and specific goal that is preemptively formulated will contribute significantly to one's chances in graduate school admissions in philosophy. For example, a person applying to MIT for ethics would probably not be admitted because MIT's department is predominantly focused in philosophy of language and linguistics. </p>

<p>Also, I know numerous students with less than perfect GREs and GPAs who were admitted into Harvard's and Yale's programs. Generally, admissions officers and philosophy faculty are looking for students who are congruent with the goals of their philosophy program. My former professor, who attended an unknown Christian school, was chosen above applicants from Harvard, Columbia, and the like because his philosophical and overall beliefs regarding intellectualism fit perfectly. Admissions officers are not only looking for good GPAs, GREs, recommendations, and writing samples, they are looking for an attitude that is agreeable.</p>

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I believe Cornell was 25th on the feeder, which isn't terrible considering they LACs were included. The rank is comparable to its USNews rank (which is probably to low) when you figure in all the additional schools it is competing against. I don't remember seeing Syracuse on the list, but that may be more a reflection of the calibre of the average Syracuse student.

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<p>On that list, Cornell is ranked lower than institutions, which are ranked lower than Cornell in USNews. This includes Rice, Georgetown and so forth, and it is really quite appalling. That is not to say that Cornell is not good at placing students; what I am trying to argue is that you will only encounter a significant advantage if you get into Harvard or Yale. Looking at that list, the lower in rank you go, the more minute the discrepancy of percentages between schools. However, Harvard is quite salient with approximately 20%. </p>

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I have a hard time believing a law school would take a 3.8/170 from Syracuse over a 3.6/170 from Cornell. Then again, you may know more about law school admissions than I.

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<p>There is more to it than that, I think. I do not think a 3.6GPA/170 from a hotel management major would be prefered to a 3.8/170 from a philosophy major at Syracuse. </p>

<p>The bottom line is that Syracuse is a well regarded school. It is not as recognized as Cornell or Harvard or Yale, but at the same time, it is not some random community college. I honestly do not think transferring to Cornell will provide an advantage in law school admissions, and applying for only that purpose is idle at best. </p>

<p>The difference in caliber among philosophy departments is insignificant when taking into account that the poster is an undergraduate. He probably has no focus, and judging from the smattering of research he has displayed, odds are he does not know what Cornell specializes in...
For basic undergraduate training, if the school is respectable, you are fine. If you peruse the examples I provided above, you will see that the most famous professors did not attend Harvard, or any school near that caliber, for their undergraduate studies. </p>

<p>I had a long discussion with a professor at Rice, and he was actually the first to convince me that lower ranked schools on USNews still may have excellent philosophy programs. The example he provided me was UT - Austin, whose program, for graduate studies at least, is much better than Rice's. USNews rankings have a tendency to distort how good a school's philosophy department is. If the poster, and Aika, were seriously concerned about getting into a good department (even though any respectable institution is sufficient for undergraduate studies), they would be considering schools such as NYU and Rutgers, both of which consistently rank higher than Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Columbia, and especially Cornell. Indeed, Derek Parfit is now visiting at Rutgers! Now who would not want to work under Derek Parfit? </p>

<p>This is inane. Many people claim that they want to go into a 'better philosophy department' without even a smattering of what constitutes a 'good' philosophy department or knowledge of the process. Instead of arguing with me, consulting a philosophy professor may be your next best option. Or... you could live in apathy, which seems to be the general trend on this forum.</p>

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I actually got this link from one of your old posts. And I know it doesn't actually prove anything. But 44 is still a lot more than 1, even when you consider the difference in the size of the schools.

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<p>It is a good general indicator, but I think that, given the enormous student body of Cornell, it would be better to scrutinize their pre-law website and obtain numbers regarding how many applied, and among those, how many were accepted. From Syracuse, it could have been one student accepted out of four (25%), and from Cornell, it could have been 44 students accepted out of 1,000!</p>

<p>I do not know how one could berate Syracuse's philosophy program. They, in fact, host an annual world-renowned continental philosophy conference. If I am not mistaken, even Jacques Derrida attended.</p>

<p>This is not to say that I actually like... that.... other .... philosophy.</p>

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This is not to say that I actually like... that.... other .... philosophy

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<p>Heh. The only continentel philosophy I have had the chance to read was Marx, and that was when I was a rebellious highschool student. As a principled libertarian socialist, I of course rejected his political philosophy as being too authoritarian and as a principled psuedo-intellectual stoner, I of course ignored the rest.</p>

<p>I have not gotten the chance to get into Derrida/deconstructionism. For some reason I get the idea that nobody knows what the hell he is talking about.</p>

<p>Reed college probably puts the largest % of its students in elite PhD programs for Phi (reflective of the students, not the name). The atmosphere there is more intellectual than Cornell and Syracuse and transfer admissions would probably be a lot easier than CAS.</p>

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<a href="and%20the%20OP%20shouldn't%20feel%20bad,%20he%20does%20this%20to%20everyone%20in%20the%20major">quote</a>

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<p>Inaccurate posts reflecting negligible thought beg for correction. If you cannot deal with it, then do not beg for disabuse.

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<p>I could've sworn that this forum was for help and advice, not bombastic lecturing.</p>

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...and by the way, you committed a logical fallacy; however, I will not ruin your dreams of philosophical excellence. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the basics prior to being placed in a more 'advanced' program.

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<p>Funny, I could have sworn my goal was to get into a larger department in a school whoth a social atmosphere more comfortable for me. I never said better, just decent and bigger. I guess you must know my motives better then I do!</p>

<p><em>shakes head</em></p>

<p>Fine, I committed an inductive fallacy. Heaven forbid I do not check everything I write informally for fallacies!</p>

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Fine, I committed an inductive fallacy. Heaven forbid I do not check everything I write informally for fallacies!

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<p>Indeed! 'Heaven forbid' you actually write something substantive and coherent! That is what this forum is for after all, right? The exchange of fallacious information.</p>

<p>I recently read a text by Harry G. Frankfurt entitled 'On ********'. You would do a favor to yourself, and your posts, by reading it.</p>

<p>Edit: This is not an insult. The above philosopher actually attempts to define what '********' is, and your posts seem congruent with it.</p>

<p>nspeds, where did you go before gtown?</p>

<p>A small school in Houston.</p>