Transfer to Ivy League School

Transfer Students
1

<p>Hello everyone. </p>

<p>Just made a CC account as I have really liked this website and wanted to be a part of this great community. </p>

<p>I have been doing some research on transferring to an IL school but haven't really found anything solid that makes you golden for admissions (well, at least to a great extent). Thus, I hope the subsequent posts you guys make are concise albeit comprehensive to a degree that encompasses everything requisite to a successful admission. A posteriori knowledge in re of this thread would be much appreciated and I would also like to summon genuine experts. </p>

<p>To give you a little background of where I want to go- I would like to go to LS, preferably IL LS as, according to the research I've completed, it will help you get into a good position in a more prestigious firm or dept (with less trouble or exp.). The job market for attorneys has been really bad (hit hard in '08) and I have realized that having such edge would be strategic in securing a job. I've been really excited about L in general and this is something I really want to do, so please don't say, "It's too early to decide," or "You should wait and see what you like" etc. One thing I have justifiably not determined yet are the practice area/s that I would like to pursue in my legal career. Also, I want to make it very clear that I understand what most lawyers do, and that they are not all trial attorneys. Many conflicts never go to court and are resolved prior to action. That's just to clear any pre-conceived notions of naivety on my part about the legal professions in general. I'm not looking for courtroom action and drama per se. </p>

<p>Obviously, getting into a IL LS is pretty hard, yet full spectrum for majors. LSAT and GPA have to be through the roof before you app gets a view longer than 5 seconds. In addition, I have found statistics that indicate that being in an IL that has a LS allows you to have a noticeably better chance of getting into that same LS or another IL LS rather than being in a different priv or state school. </p>

<p>Thus, I want to get into an IL for my last 2 years to finish off my BA. I am at a CC doing full-time. How do I pull this off? What are they really looking for? Should I write essays telling them that I want to go to their LS? What EC's should I do? I'm at school for nine hours a day, Monday through Friday, so how would I fit those ECs into my schedule and still make a fantastic GPA? What about SAT/ACT? Recommendations, how many and from whom? What about subject tests? Volunteer work? Projects? Do you have to give them your HS transcript? What years do they pay particular attention to in HS? Anything else I missed that is key? What is going to knock them off of their chair and get you in?</p>

<p>All of the IL LSs, in case you don't know, are:
-HLS
-YLS (would be my preference)
-UPenn LS
-Cornell LS
-Columbia LS</p>

<p>I would prefer to transfer into undergrad in one of those guys. I think that they have good Pre-law courses and ECs that would look great for their LS or another IL LS. Like I said above, should the essays to their undergrad wrap around the fact that I want to go to their LS and am ambitious on becoming a lawyer? How should it be addressed to them?</p>

<p>Genuine success stories or any other form of a posteriori knowledge, like I expressed above, are much appreciated. I would be happy to clarify if you need more information. </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>Bumpbumpbump.</p>

3

<p>Oh, I forgot to mention. I’m earning my AA and will have it when I graduate. Does that look attractive for transfer students too?</p>

4

<p>What are your current grades at you community college? What were you high schools grades and standardized test scores? Realistically if you were not a competitve applicant to the Ivy league schools as a freshman applicant you chances are slim to none. Keep in mind transferring into an Ivy league is much harder than freshman admissions(Harvard accepted about 15-20 applicants this past year boasting a 1 percent acceptance rate). Cornell has an acceptance rate around 20 percent but that includes all of the people at received GT. Penn and Brown hover around 12 ish percent and the rest have around a 3-4 percent acceptance rate. As you probably already know you do not need to attend an Ivy league in order to be accepted into an Ivy league law school. As long as you have a very high gpa and a very high LSAT with a great application you stand a chance. A reason why Ivy undergrads are well represented in Ivy league law schools is because people that attend those schools are usually highly motivated and dedicated.</p>

5

<p>Thanks for the quick reply and interest.</p>

<p>I’m going to be a HS Junior next year, but retty much have a spot secured at a local CC to get my AA and will be going when I leave HS. For the next to years at my HS, I am not going to be working intensely on my GPA/SAT/APs as I have shifted my focus to ECs. Hopefully when I get to my CC, I will just be polishing my ECs and will then turbocharge my GPA and maybe retake the SAT and SATIIs if possible…? Will there be a problem with that? In my initial post, I was talking hypothetically about when I get into that CC and was asking about what I should do. Now, I would like to restate my initial question with clarification: will the ILs care about my HS sophomore and freshman years? Also, with that premise established in the former part of this response, what should I focus on? Should it be about having a hot GPA, SAT/ACT scores or ECs at the CC? Should I take SAT Subject Tests too? Recommendations, etc.? Can you review my initial post and answer the rest of those questions? </p>

<p>By the way, I wouldn’t want to go to Brown- it has no LS. And yes, I know, I can still get into an IL LS, but as established in the initial post, there is evidence showing higher acceptance rates into IL LSs for applicants previously at IL undergrads. The statistics show Ivy undergrads have a considerably higher chance of being admitted to IL LSs than other applicants- that’s all that matters for me. Thus, that is the main reason why I want to transfer into an IL undergrad.</p>

6

<p>Just keep in mind if you attend an IVY league school for undergraduate and do not come out with high grades you will have a worse chance then someone else from a less prestipug ranked school with better grades. Also I would highly suggest for the remainder of high school that you focus on your gpa and sat scores not your ecs because if you are not ivy league material at the end of high school you will not stand a chance as a transfer. If you do poorly on your SATs retake and aim for at least a 2250. For transfering you will not need SAT 2 subject tests. In college you will basically need to get a 4.0 or very close to that in your two years at community college. Law schools care about what you so in college not high school but transferring to an ivy they will care about your freshman and sophomore years of high school and your cumulative gpa. For recommendations you are going to need at least two from professors at college and they are going to have to be great so make relationships. You essay is going to have to be outstanding and no not wrote that you want to attend their school because you want to get into their law school that is not a good enough reason to transfer. They will not be impressed since duh everyone wants to go to their law schools. There are more non ivy undergrads that make up those ivy law schools. Also If you want to transfer into an ivy for undergrad you have a better chance from a top 25 schools than a community college. What is your current gpa, what classes are you taking did you take the PSAT? If you have good stats and can afford a good 4 year college then you should attend that. As far ecs are conceded do what you like and what interests you not what you think law schools want to see. They want to see what you are passionate about not what are only doing to try to impress them.</p>

7

<p>“Just keep in mind if you attend an IVY league school for undergraduate and do not come out with high grades you will have a worse chance then someone else from a less prestipug ranked school with better grades.”
I’m interested in seeing evidence for that. I’m sure there is SOME correlation but not as much as you imply. Out of common sense, most IL LSs would recognize that your IL undergrad was very competitive and challenging, and that would, thus, compensate for a lower grade in comparison to some low prestige undergraduate who had a 4.0 straight through. It’s like the kid who graduates from a nowhere high school as a valedictorian. </p>

<p>“Also I would highly suggest for the remainder of high school that you focus on your gpa and sat scores not your ecs because if you are not ivy league material at the end of high school you will not stand a chance as a transfer.”
So, you mean that sophomore and freshman HS years aren’t really that significant? </p>

<p>“Law schools care about what you so in college not high school but transferring to an ivy they will care about your freshman and sophomore years of high school and your cumulative gpa.”
Kind of contradicting the previous answer if I’m interpreting this correctly. I’ve kind of screwed up my GPA really bad in my sophomore and freshman years, so I hope there has not been irreparable damage done to my cumulative HS GPA that would kill any chances of getting a transfer into an IL undergrad. Do you think if I busted my tail and got a 4.0 straight through HS and CC, would I still have a chance?</p>

<p>Okay, so SATII don’t matter if I do well at the CC… what about ECs though? You’ve kind of suppressed them in your response. </p>

<p>“You essay is going to have to be outstanding and no not wrote that you want to attend their school because you want to get into their law school that is not a good enough reason to transfer. They will not be impressed since duh everyone wants to go to their law schools. There are more non ivy undergrads that make up those ivy law schools.”
How should the essays be written then? Also, I didn’t really mean to come off in my first post like I was going to write my essays sounding like I wanted to leech off of the undergrad IL just to get into their LS. I wanted it to sound more career-orientated and like that would be my career and would be something that I want to pursue. What are some good arguments to make in the essays to attend their undergrad?
Also, that last part of this response, that’s just completely fallacious. That phenomenon occurs because there flagrantly is a smaller amount of other colleges than ivies and because not everyone who attends an IL undergrad wants to be a lawyer. That has no connection and is mutually exclusive to the disproportionate acceptance statistics for IL undergrad applicants. </p>

<p>“Also If you want to transfer into an ivy for undergrad you have a better chance from a top 25 schools than a community college. What is your current gpa, what classes are you taking did you take the PSAT? If you have good stats and can afford a good 4 year college then you should attend that.”
No way. I’m not disclosing my current GPA because it is terrible. I have barely any ECs and have really no accomplishments. My resume is really embarrassing in terms of measurable items. I bombed the PSAT also. That’s mainly why I would like to have an extra two years at a CC to beef myself up and hopefully be qualifying for an Ivy. </p>

<p>“As far ecs are conceded do what you like and what interests you not what you think law schools want to see. They want to see what you are passionate about not what are only doing to try to impress them.”
I think you meant what “undergrad schools” want to see, not law schools (I’m not there yet). That is contradicting itself also. You say not to follow what the schools think and then you say to follow the school by being passionate in something. I assume it is the latter, but it is still confusing. I would appreciate clarification as to what the opposite way is or an example of what we assume the schools are looking for.</p>

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<p>A response to the first paragraph above, that is what you would assume but that is not the case. Look at lawschoolnumbers and toplaw school forums and you will see ivy league grades will subpar grades do not get into Ivy league law schools unless they have excellent LSATs like over 170(those people are called splitters). They do not care what school you attended as long as it is reputable and you take difficult courses. If you didnt know the some kids that graduate from no where high schools actually end up getting into prestigous schools and Ivies because of diversity.</p>

<p>Concerning the second question your freshman and sophomore year of high school will have an impact on you trying to transfer to an IVY league for undergrad. Since you said you had an absymal first two years you have probably already lost your shot at an IVY league for your undergrad as well as an unpromising psat score. Schools love seeing upward trends in gpa but if you start to low then there is really no time for redemption.
Sorry if i worded that in a confusing way so for undergrad your high school years will count against you but once you apply to law school later on they will only consider your college grades.</p>

<p>What I was trying to say about ECs is that if you do not have the grades and sat scores to get admitted into an ivy league for undergrad then your ecs will not help you unless you have won national awards or are a highly recruited athlete(even then you need the grades). This is why I say to focus on your grades first because those are a basic requirement. No SAT 2s will be needed for admissions as a transfer</p>

<p>Regarding your transfer essay, you must be able to articulate the reasons why you want to attend that specific instituition. What specific programs, professors, activies draw you to those schools? Are you just in it for the prestige? Do you just want to attend because statistics show you will have a better chance at getting into an IVY law school? You need to be able to show the schools that you belong there and would be a good addition and fit for the school.</p>

<p>So far you dont seem to be on track for an ivy league and hope that two years at community college is make you ivy material. The problem with this is that even if you do pull off a 4.0 over the two years at the community college, all of these ivy league schools will have hundreds of applicants with 4.0s from top 25 schools like northwestern, vanderbilt, johns hopkins and more. Not to mention the majority of these kids all had great high school grades and SAT scores. You competition is going to be extremely tough. These are all kids that missed out of the ivies as freshmen but worked hard at very prestigous schools with the intent of transferring to an ivy after a year or two.</p>

<p>sorry about the last paragraph it may have been confusing and I meant to talk about undergraduate schools. You asked what ECs you should do and I said to do what interests you and what you enjoy. If you are able to write convincing essays on what you are passionate about and how your ecs are related to that it would be alot more impressive then partaking in a bunch of ecs that you are not interested in but just listing for your resume.</p>

<p>Hopefully that helped to clear things up! Also feel free to pm me your response since I do not want to takeover your thread lol.</p>

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<p>Yes, obviously I meant with perfect LSAT scores. But the statistics conclusively show that Ivy undergrads have a higher chance of getting in to an IL LS. Having a good LSAT is a non-negotiable stat to getting into one, of course. </p>

<p>My GPA isn’t TOO bad (like lower than 3.0) but it is pretty low for an Ivy. If I trended up from, let’s say a 3.0 to a 4.0, would that still be terrible with a 4.0 both years in college? Would Ivies frown on that or look at it like it was good progress?</p>

<p>Okay, so I really need to put pressure on my GPA and SAT score. How much can you retake the SAT and does it look bad to retake it? </p>

<p>I mean, even if I don’t get to Ivy for undergrad and hit a tier 2 school, I still could probably make it to IL LS right? That’s ultimately where I want to go. There has to be something I can do all around that will make me gold. 4.0 GPA, 2400SAT, spend months on the essays, cultivate professor and counselors to get great recommendations and then have really good ECs. There has to be something I can do, SOMETHING! I will not give up! </p>

<p>So, on the ECs. Do you think there should be like a theme among them to where you can tie in everything you’ve done and draw a big main idea for it to sell to the college? I think that would be better than having like 2 things with a common idea and then having a bunch of other random stuff that has no pertinence to the others on your resume. It would show that you have genuine dedication in that field.</p>

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<p>What’s wrong with that? I don’t want the expenses and pain of applying as a freshman.</p>

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<p>no one can give you an exact answer about such specific questions. go to your dream schools’ forums to see the statics of those admitted students and estimate one/two years growth of them in that college. you will know what is your goal.</p>