Transfer VS Second Bachelor VS Master

Hello, everyone. I will be in my senior year soon. My GPA is very low, below 2.5. I hate my college and major. I don’t think that the coursework here provide foundation for grad school. With GPA this low, I don’t think I will be admitted into a Top PhD program. I am considering 3 options:
(a) Restart/ transfer into a community college and then transfer again into a 4-year college
(b) Just finish this useless degree and do a second bachelor degree (different major) later
© Finish this degree and do a Master program first before applying to a PhD program
(But some people say Master GPA cannot replace undergrad GPA. Is undergrad GPA more important?)
I am really confused. What should I do? Any advice is highly appreciated.

@rapidsquirrel - welcome to the Forum. It would be beneficial if you were to give more specifics. What is your current major? What second Bachelors are you considering? What is your goal in getting a Masters or even a PhD?

The reality is that most PhD programs, not just “top” ones require a GPA of at least 3.0/4.0 and usually much more. A Masters can help but you should ask yourself if you can maintain a high GPA in the more demanding coursework of a graduate program since you have struggled as an undergraduate.

My current major is Chemistry. I want to change to Physics. My low GPA is because of low quality of coursework. I have learned nothing in my college. The coursework are not hard actually (I would say some of them are too easy), I just feel bored and lost the motivation to work on it. My mistake though. After the first semester in Freshmen Year, I always want to drop out, but my family expect me to get a certificate in order to get a job.

My ultimate goal is to become a Biophysicist.

Biophysicists need to show strength in physics, chem, and math, with some cross discipline work (eg, biochemistry and neurobio). Afaik, the subject most often housed in the physics departments (or medical schools). Finding, say, a Masters program in physics or biology will be hard- because of your low GPA, because there are so few terminal degrees and because you probably don’t have the base for it.

As @xraymancs noted, it is unlikely that any PhD program would take a student with a GPA under 3.0. There are a lot of elements to getting into a PhD program, but at a minimum the department has to have confidence that you have not just the ability, but the motivation and self-discipline to succeed over the 4-6 years that it takes to complete the program. PhDs are long and a lot of the work is self-directed. You are averaging low Cs at a college that you describe as ‘too easy’, because for nearly 3 years you have not had the motivation to do more (for example, you could have done the work to get all A’s, and then used that high GPA to transfer to a better school).

Some questions:

  1. How recent is your decision to aim for grad school?
  2. Have your grades improved? Can you get your grades up for this semester by actually woking hard
  3. Can you take classes over the summer?
  4. Can you extend college for 1 year, either where you are, or via courses at the community college, or by transferring?

If you can get 2 years of very strong grades in the key science classes you might be able to do something like Ohio States Master’s program, which has a high PhD entry rate. It will extend your overall time by 2 years or so.

@xraymancs, what do you think?

  1. Recently
  2. My grades stay the same. If I actually work hard, I can get the grades up. However, it’s too late to boost my GPA over 3.0
  3. No
  4. I am considering the transfer option. Should I transfer to a community college and then to a 4-year college?

If I do a second bachelor, how will the GPA be viewed in grad school admission?

Right this minute the goal isn’t to get your GPA up over 3.0, it’s to start getting good grades- right. now. You have nearly 3 years of bad habits to break!

Grad schools will see all your college grades, no matter where you take them. There are no GPA do-overs. You are going to have to build the case that you grew up and got serious about school, as demonstrated by your abrupt jump from Cs to As, achieved over a sustained period of time, in rigorous classes (including the upper level classes).

Why can’t you take classes over the summer? even with a summer job, there are evening classes at the community college (or vice-versa, if it’s an evening job). You want to do something hard, and this is where it starts.

“Transferring” from a 4 year to a 2 year and back again makes no sense, nor does doing a second bachelors. Extending this one, and getting the grades up will do the same thing in less time.

You could take a leave of absence from your current school and just go to the community college. Power through some of the core classes that you need in bio and physics while you research your transfer options (note that typically you need to do the equivalent of 2 years work, with upper level classes in order to get a degree from a college or university).

@collegemom3717 Thank you so much for your reply!
Should I take academic leave, go to community college and transfer to a 4-year college? (change my major simultaneously)
Or should I finish this degree, and get a Second Bachelor Physics degree in 3 years?
Or should I finish this degree, and get a Master degree in Physics?

I know I’ve made a huge mistake!

What is your financial situation? There is not much out there for second Bachelors. How would you pay for additional years of undergrad education? Also, most masters programs, professional programs require $$. Getting paid graduate school programs hard to find even with great grades.

I suggest you talk to your college advisor, your front chair, college career services and see what options are realistically available to you as the next steps. I have known kids with less than optimal grades get into grad programs with help from their college mentor or department. Especially those with an upward trend in performance.

The biggest flaw I see in your plans is that it is exceedingly rare for someone to sky rocket in grades at the 11th hour, though there are many many students with such plans. It’s great you are making this a goal, and I think you should be putting that nose to the grindstone, but you should also explore options with the record you have.

One step at a time.

Finish this term STRONG.
Find out the rules for academic leave at your current school.
Figure out what classes you need to take to prepare for biophysics.
Figure out which of those classes are offered at your local community college & sign up for some.
Take the classes and see how you do- an you get an A in them?

@cptofthehouse Regarding my financial situation, I have to work part-time to pay the fees. I completely understand that master program and second bachelor degree has no financial aid. Is transferring to a college provided with financial aid / scholarship a good option?

@collegemom3717 Actually, I have looked at some courses website syllabus. It seems that the level of Math and Physics involved are so difficult that I need to do an overhaul, and start from the scratch to build up the foundation needed. Math classes taken in my major simply are not rigorous enough, in my frank opinion. By my calculation, transfer at this stage / second bachelor will make my undergraduate takes 7 or 8 years to finish. Will this look bad in the grad school admission committee? If I could get an A in the Math and Physics classes mentioned, should I transfer?

I don’t think the options presented are your only three options.

You could stay at your current school and change your major to physics. That would extend your time in school, but it’d still probably be cheaper than getting a whole second bachelor’s degree in physics (for which there is limited aid, as someone else mentioned).

You could add a physics minor, and then just take whatever classes you still need as a non-degree student after graduating and working.

I don’t see any reason to go to a community college and then transfer to a four-year college. You can’t really “re-start” college, as they’ll see your past transcripts anyway. It seems like wasting time and money on school for much longer than you need it. You could instead attempt to transfer to another college if you don’t think your college’s curriculum is a strong one. But you’ll find difficulty transferring anywhere else with your GPA - certainly not anywhere more highly ranked than your college, if that’s what you’re looking for.

I’d probably use one of the two options I listed. Or, if you think you could secure a spot and good financial aid at another good school, maybe try transferring to another four-year college. Otherwise, stay where you are and either commit to taking another year in college or to taking as many physics classes as you can before you graduate and take more as a non-degree student.

I guess that the first thing I would ask is whether you have been able to get strong grades in Calculus and Differential Equations. These are courses that are fundamental for Physics but are also required for Chemistry. If you have not done well in those courses, you really need to retake them to give yourself the best chance to succeed in Physics. The same goes for the General Physics sequence that you probably have taken as part of a Chemistry major.

If your grades in these courses have not been strong, then you might wish to repeat them over the summer (or taking a leave) at a local community college or at your university if they offer a course repeat policy where you can replace poor grades with better ones. If you have done well in these course, then you should simply bite the bullet and change majors at your current school right away. Physics curricula are pretty much the same at most universities and I can’t imagine that where you are will not be challenging enough for you. If, as you imply, you have not taken the right Calculus and Physics courses yet, then you can either take a leave and take these courses at a community college starting in the summer, or wind back and take them at your current university. It might take you three more years to finish the degree but that is probably unavoidable.

If you do change majors and are able to raise your GPA from here on out, there is a case to be made for getting into a masters program which could serve as a stepping stone to a PhD program. The key is to take the rest of your studies seriously and work as hard as you can to show that you can handle the material in physics.

@juillet @xraymancs Thank you so much for your advice! I will think carefully and take action. Based on my calculations, it will take 7 years or even 8 years to complete an undergraduate degree. If I work really hard (take as many courses as possible) and bump up my cumulative GPA over 3.0, does the long undergraduate length looks bad to grad school admission people? People generally takes 4 or 5 years to finish a degree.

Just to clarify, any college you go to, you have to state it on your graduate school apps.

What do you ultimately see yourself doing? Perhaps there is an easier way to get there.

@futurebruin205 Thank you for your reply. I understand that I have to send in all of my transcripts to the grad school admission office.

@lostaccount Biophysicist doing research, may be to become a Professor.

How extensive and productive has your research experience been?

We have, but very rarely, accepted students into our PhD program with mediocre GPAs (~2.8) when they have had absolutely stellar research experiences (i.e. multiple first author papers and amazing “walking-on-water” reference letters). Some of these students applied after several years of working very productively as full-time technicians/research assistants who also took a few graduate courses while they were working. The rationale is that sometimes it is possible to develop into an excellent researcher if one is not a good test-taker - but you would have to provide some evidence that you have outstanding potential as a researcher. Essentially these applicants showed that they were capable of graduate-level research while they were working as technicians.