Transferring and its implications for REU and graduate school admissions

Transfer Students
1

<p>Well, I've been planning on applying for transfer to several schools for spring semester 2010 (because I missed the fall deadline :D). I've only had two semesters of college so far, but I want to transfer because I've moved through the math curriculum here faster than anticipated (after next semester I'll be done with the honors calculus sequence, differential equations, linear algebra, number theory, abstract algebra, analysis, a calculus-based physics course, and a number of computer science courses), and I'm realizing that the curriculum here is very lacking in terms of upper-level and graduate-level classes (in math).</p>

<p>Anyway, I also want to go to graduate school in math and, if I can, participate in a summer REU in math each summer during my undergraduate years (except this one). I'm afraid that transferring could hurt my chances at getting into REUs and a good graduate school.</p>

<p>The reason is letters of recommendation. I'd sort of have to make a new name for myself if I transferred. A few teachers here have been pretty impressed with me, so I know they'd write me good letters if I were to apply for an REU next summer. If I transferred, I don't know if it'd be appropriate to ask these people to write me letters anymore. Further, since I'd be transferring into the spring 2010 semester, I'd have only a semester to get to know new professors at my new college, which could make it hard to get good recommendations. </p>

<p>Ideally with the REUs I'd just have my professors from next semester write the letters. But would it be appropriate to ask them if I transfer away the following semester?</p>

<p>Finally, I'm wondering how transferring could impact graduate school admissions. It's not that I wouldn't be at the new school long enough. I'd be there 8 - 3 = 5 semesters at least. That would be plenty of time to get to know professors. Actually what worries me is the other students there. </p>

<p>Right now I'm at my state's flagship campus. It's a good school, but I'm by far above average, at least in terms of math. It helps me stand out to the professors. I'd probably be more average if I transferred to a more prestigious school (Cornell and Rice are the ones I'm really looking at).</p>

<p>What do you think? I've pretty much got to decide whether I'll apply very soon because now is the time to start working on applications I'd say.</p>

<p>While I've got this topic going, I already mentioned Cornell and Rice, but does anyone else have recommendations of schools that have great opportunities for undergraduate math majors? I'm wanting schools that have a big variety of upper-level undergraduate math courses and that offer a bunch of graduate math courses. At my school, there are far fewer graduate courses than undergraduate, and many of the graduate classes aren't offered every semester, which makes it really hard to fill prerequisites for higher graduate classes. </p>

<p>For example, algebraic topology requires graduate topology; graduate topology requires undergraduate topology. That's not too bad, but the undergrad and grad topology classes aren't offered every semester, so it could easily take up to two years just to take both of those, even though it should really take a year at most.</p>

<p>What I'd really love would be a school where I could take algebraic topology with just undergraduate topology.</p>

<p>Thanks much!</p>

2

<p>Wow. I have the same goals as you (multiple undergrad REUs and math grad school) and I’m a math major who’s had to transfer as well, although not by choice, really. First, I’d like to say that I’m very impressed that you got to abstract algebra and analysis after only 3 semesters. After my freshman year in college I had the calculus sequence, lin alg, intro to prob and stat (calc-based), differential equations I and II, discrete math I and a math seminar course under my belt… I went to Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology. I lost my AFROTC scholarship due to a medical condition I developed at the beginning of my sophomore year and after I finished recovering from that I had to look into transferring and I ended up choosing Vanderbilt.</p>

<p>You bring up a lot of good points and I see your dilemma… I hear you about the courses not being offered enough - Linear Algebra II is only offered once every 2 years at my school, but a group of friends petitioned to have it offered two years in a row and we got it approved. I don’t know how your school is, but if you could find a few people who would like to take the topology sequence with you, you may could get it approved (if you went to my school - I’d fight with you to take topology like that :P)</p>

<p>I couldn’t apply to an REU my first summer since I had military training at an Air Force Base for 3 weeks right in the middle of my summer, but I think I would talk to your professors at your state school and explain your situation. They may even be able to give you some independent study/directed research in some of the upper-level areas you’re interested in. Additionally, one or more of them may not mind having to write you a letter of recommendation after you transfer (just the first semester - I wouldn’t ask again once you’ve been out for more than a semester). I mean, you have to apply for REU’s early in the Spring Semester and that’s hardly enough time for your new professors to get to know you, so I think it may be appropriate.</p>

<p>If that were the case, perhaps you’d consider taking two more semesters at your current school that way you can get an REU summer of 2010 AND then have a year at your next school before your 2011 REU?</p>

<p>I have no idea about course variety and such at other schools - I chose to apply to Vanderbilt because of their meeting 100% financial need and cost is important to me. I know at Vanderbilt they have what I’m looking for - Functional Analysis, Complex Analysis and 3 semesters of Topology courses. The topology courses appear to be offered each year, the first one being offered in the spring, although Vanderbilt doesn’t accept Spring transfers, so you couldn’t transfer until fall 2010.</p>

<p>I’d like to see what other people have to say about this, too, though. I hope that helped a bit :)</p>

3

<p>Wow, that’s pretty cool. I don’t think I’ve come across someone with such similar goals.</p>

<p>Is it normal to transfer after two years of college coursework? I’d be afraid that could actually hurt my chances, although I don’t know for sure.</p>

<p>At my current school I’m going to need to move on to graduate classes my junior year (if I stay here). There is no undergraduate coverage of differential geometry or algebraic topology here (two topics that I really want to learn about). I know at Cornell there is an undergraduate class in differential geometry which I could take if I transferred there in the spring (well, if it’s being offered then–I haven’t been able to figure this out yet).</p>

<p>Rice actually looks like it has a great math curriculum. It has a great topology sequence, which includes point-set topology, something they call geometric topology (it appears to cover notions such as homotopy), and then algebraic topology. I think these are graduate courses, but I can’t tell because they’ve just got everything lumped in the same list. :D</p>

<p>They’ve got a website for their differential geometry course up here ([402</a> Differential Geometry](<a href=“http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~lr7/402/]402”>http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~lr7/402/)) and it looks really fun. I also love the way that Rice seems to favor giving take-home finals or presentations rather than in-class exams.</p>

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<p>Does anyone else have any advice? If not, I’ll let this thread die. :D</p>

5

<p>If you letter of recommendation writers are willing to endorse you now, why wouldn’t they be willing to endorse you later? Frankly, I think your concerns are a bit silly; I am transferring to Rice this fall and all of my letter of recommendation writers have expressed congratulations on behalf, telling me if I ever need another letter of recommendation again for summer programs or graduate school, they would always be willing to lend a hand. Obviously, this can’t be expected for each and every professor, but if you’ve made a considerable impression on a professor, I can only hope they would want to endorse you at every stage of your academic career. </p>

<p>Professors understand there are distinctions between universities, and don’t take offense once a student leaves for a new, better-suited university. In fact, a good professor will encourage you to transfer if it means reaching your academic potential. Don’t burn any bridges; keep in touch with old professors either by email or phone calls, updating them once in awhile on your activities at your current university. This keeps you fresh in their mind, in case you ever need another letter of recommendation from them again. </p>

<p>Yes, transferring has its pros and cons, the major con being that you’ll be pressed for time at your new university, which gives you a less of a chance to be properly involved at your new campus. At Rice, however, it won’t be much of a problem, due to the residential college system. From what people tell me, you will basically know EVERYONE in your res college. And the Rice student population is pretty small enough so you could theoretically know everyone else too, haha. :)</p>

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<p>Thanks very much. I’m glad you find my concerns silly. :smiley: It lets me rest at ease about transferring.</p>

<p>Yep, I’m leaning pretty strongly towards Rice, and their residential college system is one of the reasons why.</p>

7

<p>well, I think that you do not have to transfer to other schools. You can stay in your schools and participate into some programs such as “math in moscow”, “Budapest semesters in math”, “smith college math program”, “MASS at penn state” and so on. You can take many advanced math courses there without transferring.</p>

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<p>Yep, I’ve actually been considering that option very strongly as well. I haven’t heard of the Smith College math program, though. Is this what you mean? [The</a> Junior Program | Center for Women in Mathematics atSmithCollege](<a href=“http://math.smith.edu/center/node/3]The”>http://math.smith.edu/center/node/3) If so, I’m not a girl, so I couldn’t apply to that. :D</p>

<p>I’m basically torn between these two routes. I could either transfer to a school with a much stronger math department, in which case I’d need to stay at that school for two years in order to fulfill the residency requirement, or I could stay where I’m at and simply do a bunch of those programs. In the end I don’t know which one would be more beneficial to me.</p>

<p>Those programs should offer an environment similar to that I’d find at schools like Cornell. And the course offerings are similar as well (especially the Math in Moscow program). But I could only do so many of those programs. In particular, I have other courses besides math I have to take in order to graduate, and those programs in general offer nothing but math.</p>

<p>I won’t be able to do those programs in the next year. So suppose, for example, I did MASS the first semester of my junior year. If I also did, say, a year in Moscow or a year in Budapest or one semester in each, that would be a total of three semesters away from my home school, which would leave me one semester in order to fulfill all my other requirements, and I don’t know how that’d work. I guess one option would be to drop some of my math courses I’m signed up for next semester and replace them with courses for the other requirements, but honestly I’m not sure I’d be willing to do that, especially considering that admission to those programs is rather competitive and I’m by no means guaranteed to get in.</p>

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<p>The Math in Moscow program ([LIST</a> and CONTENTS of COURSES](<a href=“http://www.mccme.ru/mathinmoscow/index.php?page=10]LIST”>http://www.mccme.ru/mathinmoscow/index.php?page=10)) definitely does offer some very interesting classes that I would love to take.</p>

<p>Hmm, this makes the choice harder.</p>

10

<p>i am in a similar spot with respect to letters of recommendation. if i transfer i should have 3 semester and a summer working with my current professor and he is a really big name so i definitely still want a letter of recommendation if he is willing. i’m hoping that the time i will have spent will be sufficient to get a good letter down the road. honestly, go where you are happy. if you can get to where you are supposed to be it shouldn’t be hard to develop relationships with professors.</p>

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<p>nilkn, did you ever transfer?</p>