To transfer or not to transfer

Colleges and Universities A-Z Rice University
1

<p>I've been admitted as a transfer student for January 2010. I really like Rice and would really like to go, but the situation has become more complex than I expected:</p>

<p>(0) First, some background information. Next semester will be my fourth semester of college. I'm a pure math and computer science major. I'd like to switch to a pure math major. I'm taking abstract algebra, real analysis, and number theory this semester (as well as a programming course and a humanities course), and I'd like to continue this pattern at Rice: 3 math courses, 2 courses in other subjects each semester. I have plans on going to graduate school for mathematics and want to go to the best graduate school I can gain admission to.</p>

<p>(1) My high school offered no AP courses, but I took about 24 credit hours of dual credit. All of it transferred to my current school; none of it transferred to Rice. These credits consisted of classes like American History, English, Art History I and II, etc. So as it stands now, at Rice I will have credit for a lot of math and science (my major is math and computer science), but the only humanities courses I'll have credit for are (these are the names of the courses at my current school, not Rice) Honors Ethics, Honors Logic and Reasoning, and Modern Israeli Film (one from each semester of college so far).</p>

<p>Based on the General Announcements (<a href="http://www.rice.edu/catalog/2009_2010/PDF/07_UndergradInfo.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.rice.edu/catalog/2009_2010/PDF/07_UndergradInfo.pdf&lt;/a&gt;), it seems like these will probably count for 9 credit hours in Group I, and I'm guessing that Group III will be covered by my math and computer science and physics courses.</p>

<p>The problem is I know I've got to be missing something here. It would appear that even without the 24 credit hours I would only have one more course in Group I and Group II left, which wouldn't be that big of a deal. But intuitively I don't see how this could be the case. Could a Rice student or someone familiar with the system correct me if I'm wrong? Please let me know if there's any more information I could provide to make it easier to answer this question. Would I be able to continue the above described pattern and still graduate in four years (this is my third semester of college)?</p>

<p>(2) Rice is going to be a LOT more expensive than my current school (University of Missouri--Columbia, ranked 102) but is a top 20 private college and is almost universally better than my current school. My parents are willing to pay for the difference if I decide to go, and my grandfather may help as well. So we'll be able to pay for it, and I won't have to go into any debt (unless something goes wrong), but it's still a huge commitment from my family--it seems like more than I could ever reasonably ask from them. </p>

<p>When I saw how little financial aid I was getting from Rice, I told them I wasn't going to go since I'm not willing to go into that much debt for college and I didn't want them to face such a financial burden, but they've insisted over this week that they want me to go--and they will pay--if I want to go.</p>

<p>Sorry for the length of this post, but it's super important because I have very little time left to decide. I'm most interested in hearing about how losing those 24 credits will affect me at Rice, but I'd also be really grateful for any general advice.</p>

<p>Thanks so much! If any more information would be helpful, please just ask.</p>

2

<p>I’m a freshman, so you may want to take what I am saying with a grain of salt.</p>

<p>It appears you will still need D2 (social sciences/history) credit, about 3-4 classes in this area. Classes in sociology, political science, anthropology, psychology, and some history courses count in this area. Since you are already 3 semesters into college, you may want to talk to Rice admissions or the Office of the Registrar to see if these requirements will be waived (some schools waive curriculum requirements for second semester sophomore/junior transfers). However, I’m pretty confident you can fulfill these requirements: 5 core courses is very doable within 5 semesters, especially since you have a lot of your major requirements out of your way. Also, you need about 120 credits to graduate, which I feel can also be done if you take about 4-5 classes per semester and if you have been taking 4-5 classes per semester at your current school.</p>

<p>Not trying to sway you or anything, but if I were in your shoes, I would definitely take up this offer. While UMissouri is not a bad school, I feel like there are a lot of opportunities at Rice and that come with a Rice degree. However, be sure you like Rice better than UMissouri before you decide coming here. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

3

<p>Definitely ask Admissions to link you up with an advisor who can discuss your transcript with you and give you some more information. I know that there is some flexibility in programs - DS transferred from one major to another, and a couple of classes are being waived.</p>

4

<p>p.s. If you are not transferring to Rice because you really want to go to Rice, or there is a professor (or two) that you really want to work with - then I think you should stay put. Don’t transfer because you think it will make grad school application results better!!! Have you discussed grad school with your profs at UM? If you stay put and are a top student you should have some good grad school opportunities. I am a huge Rice fan, but your reasons for wanting to transfer seem thin… JMHO!</p>

5

<p>Thanks for the advice!</p>

<p>I do definitely want to attend Rice. There are so many special points about Rice that make it really appealing–warm climate (this one’s a bit silly, but it’s freezing here in the winter!), small undergraduate population, VIGRE, residential colleges, the honors code, better math, physics, and computer science departments, etc. This thread admittedly was focused on the negative aspects of transferring, which is why it may not have communicated this very well.</p>

<p>Now, I will admit that I hope transferring to Rice will help me out in graduate school admissions, but I don’t think this just because Rice is higher ranked. Rice just has a much broader spectrum of courses, which would let me get a stronger background for graduate school. Also, everything I’ve read about Rice has indicated that the honors code makes it a bit easier to take multiple demanding courses at the same time (since a decent portion of the exams will be take-home, so the focus, at least in math, will be on deeper reasoning, not memorization), and I plan on taking a number of upper-level math courses simultaneously.</p>

6

<p>In which case, go to Rice! If your parents are willing to pay for it, go for it. It’s a great place. My son is already bemoaning the fact that he only has 3 more semesters left!</p>

7

<p>Here’s your trouble. </p>

<p>It’s very doubtful that the humanities courses you’ve taken will be counted as DI credits. You’ll need (A) to get Rice Equivalent Credit for each of the courses you’ve completed. Only the department’s (each department has its own) transfer credit advisor (an overworked junior faculty member) can convert your credit. The credit into which your courses have been converted (B) must have been designated as distribution credit. And, here’s the kicker, you (C) must have taken the courses for which you received Rice Equivalent Credit during the semester they were designated as distribution credit at Rice. </p>

<p>So, it looks like you’ll need to complete <em>24</em> hours of distribution credit, plus two LPAPs (gym classes, that is) in order to graduate. This is a little more than 3/4 of a year’s worth of work. </p>

<p>A Rice degree will not significantly improve your chances at graduate school admission. What’s important is that you get good grades, snag a high score on the GRE, and earn good faculty recommendations. </p>

<p>You will almost certainly be housed off campus. Rice does an awful, awful job socializing transfer students. You’ve got to be very outgoing or you’ll be miserable. </p>

<p>You’d be better served, I sense, staying put.</p>

8

<p>I disagree with Rice doing an awful job socializing transfer students. Sure, it it will be harder making friends as a spring transfer versus a fall transfer, but it is definitely doable (the residential college system helps too). Rice supposedly holds a mini transfer orientation for spring transfers beforehand, plus you can hang out with other spring transfer students initially. From what I heard, Rice tries to house spring transfer students on-campus; I have a friend who was a spring transfer student last year and he was housed on campus. My residential college master even said that our residential college needs to keep rooms open for spring transfers next semester.</p>

<p>If you want to come to Rice, by all means, come. It is going to be somewhat difficult, but transferring anywhere creates difficulties. However, in my opinion, it is not going to be as bad as Riceward put it. Try and get in contact with the person in charge with transfer credit and see how much credit can transfer.</p>

9

<p>By the way, I have met SO MANY transfer students, and they are loving it at Rice. A lot of them feel comfortable and have made a lot of friends. Of course, these were fall transfers, but still that just shows the tremendous job Rice does with making transfer students feel at home. My friend who transferred in the spring has also made many friends as well, even though he is a track athlete.</p>

10

<p>Well, I’m going to go ahead and pay the enrollment fee (since it’s due in just a few days), and in the meantime I’m going to see if I can determine whether I will actually get distribution credit for the humanities courses.</p>

<p>If I don’t get distribution credit and I don’t get on-campus housing, I may stay here and just lose the deposit. I’d love to go to Rice, but if it means losing a year’s worth of credit and having to live off-campus in Houston knowing nobody initially, I’m not sure it’s worth it when I have a nice, cozy spot on campus here with good friends.</p>

<p>I’m also going to speak to one of my math professors and see what he recommends I do. I’m going to ask him whether I could take graduate courses starting next semester if I stay here.</p>

11

<p>Sounds like a good plan of action!</p>

12

<p>LOL, you are a CS/Math major; starting your list at 0.</p>

<p>I am a student in a similar situation, looking to transfer. Just wondering, how much financial aid were you offered?</p>

13

<p>“starting your list at 0.” </p>

<p>I’m not sure what you mean.</p>

<p>Anyway, I got about $10,000 per year, which makes the total cost about $35,000 per year, which is more than three times as expensive as what my current school is costing.</p>

<p>I spoke with my advisor, and he told me upfront that Rice was a better school and that I’d fit in there better, but he also said he didn’t believe I’d be at a disadvantage here. He seemed really willing to help me out and suggested trying to set up some reading courses to cover differential geometry, algebraic topology, and maybe some commutative algebra (his research specialty), since these are important foundational topics that aren’t covered at my current school. He also told me I had a “very good” chance at getting a math scholarship next semester if I stay here.</p>

<p>So I’m going to see if I can set up a reading course in algebraic topology for next semester and see how plausible it is to get reading courses in the other subjects in the future, and if the chances look good I think I’ll stay here. Frankly, I didn’t know the math department here even offered reading courses to undergraduates, so this sounds to me like it’s a pretty neat opportunity.</p>

14

<p>Good for you, working that out! It sounds like you’ve got some great opportunities there, at a great price. I’d stay put, too, if I were you. Good luck!</p>

15

<p>I am also a transfer for Spring 2010, and housing for mid year transfers are guaranteed. They just sent out an email two days ago (which you probably got.) That was one of the issues for whether or not I wanted to accept the offer as well.</p>

16

<p>My little attempt at humor, I was just comparing your list to how the first location in an array is 0, not 1.</p>

<p>I know Mizzou isn’t terribly prestigious, especially science-wise. It sounds like you know your advisor very well, and they want to help you do as well as possible. I am just guessing that it is MUCH easier to stand out of the crowd at Mizzou than Rice, and that unique relationship between you and your and your advisor could prove very useful, especially with graduate school applications. </p>

<p>My question to you is: what is the main drawback that you see about transferring? Losing credit hours, moving away from your friends, making your parents/grandparents pay more? I don’t know your family’s situation, but it seems like you are most guilty about the money. As long as they are not sabotaging their own financial future and retirement, I do not see the trouble with taking the money to attend if you truly think Rice is the better place for you.</p>

17

<p>At this point (with guaranteed on-campus housing–they sent out an email a few days ago–and the financials worked out), the main drawback to transferring is the potential loss of many credit hours, but there are also a few specific perks to staying:</p>

<p>–I think I have a really, really good chance at getting awards/scholarships from the math department where I’m at right now.</p>

<p>–I think the math department here would be more willing to help me set up reading courses and research because I stand out more here. I imagine it would be harder to get these opportunities at Rice where there would be presumably more talented students who actually want them.</p>

<p>My goal is to cover Harvard’s qualifying exam syllabus as an undergraduate (scroll down here to see it: [Harvard</a> Mathematics Department : Graduate Information](<a href=“http://www.math.harvard.edu/graduate/index.html]Harvard”>Harvard Mathematics Department Graduate Information)) I just think it’s a pretty good guide for getting a broad background in mathematics as an undergraduate. If I went to Rice, I would be able to cover the complex analysis section next semester, the algebra, algebraic topology, and differential geometry sections my junior year (assuming three math courses a semester), and hopefully the real analysis and algebraic geometry sections my senior year. If I stay here, the curriculum isn’t as rigorous, so I’d be a bit worried the classes wouldn’t actually cover all the content. Plus there are no courses here on algebraic topology or differential geometry (technically an algebraic topology course exists, but I don’t think it’s offered very often), so to cover that material here–and it is essential material–I would need to take a number of reading courses. I wouldn’t mind doing that, and it may even be better in some ways, but there would be the risk that I wouldn’t be able to set one up.</p>

<p>Also, I’m going to need recommendations from two professors in order to apply to summer programs (next summer). I wouldn’t be at Rice long enough by the application due dates, so I’d need to get recommendations from my teachers this semester. This could be difficult to do if I am going to be in Houston next semester and they will be here.</p>

<p>The way I see it, these are the keys to getting into a good graduate school for mathematics: (1) cover the material listed above as an undergraduate (and make good grades, of course); (2) get a really high score (95th percentile or higher) on the GRE subject test; certain schools like Berkeley seem apt to accept people on the basis of this alone (I’m exaggerating, but this one score does seem to receive an almost irrational focus in the math graduate school world); (3) get outstanding recommendations; (4) research experience through, e.g., REUs (I think this is less important in math than in other fields like physics, although it’s certainly still a very big key part of the application).</p>

<p>(1) is easier at Rice and Rice courses would be trusted more for covering material in detail. (2) would in a sense be easier at Rice because of (1). (3) is easier where I’m at. (4) is unclear; it seems like I could get something where I’m at, but I know Rice also has VIGRE, so I could almost certainly do something during the school year at Rice, if not next semester.</p>

18

<p>

It hasn’t been my kid’s experience there - there are tons of opportunities, in part because of the very low student/faculty ratio (1:5). The profs are all looking for students interested in doing research or working on projects,etc. However, unless you are excited about the prospect of going to Rice, stay where you are. If you are comfortable where you are, and feel like you’ll be able to get the education you want there, then why move?</p>

19

<p>Oh, well, of course I’d be excited to go to Rice just because of its unique qualities. Part of me would like to just go there and forget everything else. Like I said before, Rice has a lot of qualities that appeal very much to me (and my current school lacks these qualities).</p>

<p>I’m thinking about this from so many different perspectives because I just want to make sure I’m making the right decision.</p>

<p>And I know I’m incredibly indecisive. My indecisiveness is not unique to this particular decision. It’s something I need to work on.</p>

20

<p>Well, why don’t you accept the transfer, and go for the semester, with the knowledge that if you don’t want to stay, you can count it as a “study-away” semester? Rice does have students who come as exchange students and visit for the semester. If you do that, though, make sure you come in with an “all-in” attitude - get involved, join some club sports, participate in res college social events, be active. etc. Then you can chose to return to your home school if you decide Rice is not for you. :slight_smile: Indecision issue solved!</p>