How simple is it to transfer from St. Johns to another college? Do most credits transfer easily? How difficult is it to get good grades at St. Johns? Is there extreme grade deflation? If so, would other colleges recognize its extreme grade deflation? Can you easily transfer to another really great college like reed or brown? Obviously the transfer process also depends on recommendations and essays, but I want a general understanding of the process.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but absolutely none of your credits will transfer. Every single class in the program is mandatory, so regardless of what you’ve taken elsewhere, you will have to start over as a freshman.
That being said, the administration is unusually welcoming of transfers, and there are plenty of them in any given class. One of my freshman classmates was one semester shy of graduating from another (far more famous) liberal arts college when she transferred, and another had completed two years at Johns Hopkins. If you’re genuinely interested in the “great books” curriculum, the trade-off can be worth it.
Grading is… tricky. I’m tempted to say “arbitrary,” but that’s a little too harsh. You just have to realize that the lack of tests and quizzes puts the onus on you to PROVE that you’re learning something. That means doing every reading assignment,and showing up eager to share your thoughts and opinions. Shy people are at a real disadvantage here, because instructors have virtually nothing to grade you on other than participation. People who sit there silently all semester can write the world’s greatest essays and still get a C+. If you’re female, this can be an even bigger challenge, because participating enough to be heard and noticed requires a brazen willingness to talk loudly and just refuse to stop if and when you’re interrupted.
When you transfer out of St. John’s and your transcript is sent elsewhere, it’s accompanied by a letter from the dean that explains the nature of the program, and includes a reference guide that breaks down what credit hours and subjects each St. John’s class would translate to at most schools. (For example, “Sophomore Math” is 3 credits of Geometry and 3 credits of Analytical Geometry; “Sophomore Language” is 4 credits of Greek first semester, and 1.5 credits of Logic and 2 credits of English Lit the next.) You can definitely transfer into comparable (or even better) colleges, particularly liberal arts schools – the admissions folks at those are very familiar with St. John’s and its particularly stringent curriculum. One of my friends transferred to Reed during our sophomore year, and got a glowing recommendation from our language instructor, who happened to be a Reed graduate, herself.
The school has this odd but neat program where you can take each of your instructors to lunch in the dining hall once a semester. I mean, obviously you can do that whenever, but the school will foot the bill for their meal once. If you’re wise, it’s an excellent way to foster good relationships with them, discuss an interesting reading further in depth, and eventually get a good recommendation, if that’s what you want.
Yikes–actually, although most of peachyswift’s answers are spot-on, the answer to your first question is the opposite: all your credits from St. John’s will transfer to almost any other college, but St. John’s will not accept credit from other colleges. I am a college counselor and current St. John’s parent.
Peachyswift, in a different thead you indicated that you had only spent two years at St. John’s College. Why did you transfer out of St. John’s College? How was your experience after St. John’s College? If you don’t mind me asking what school did you transfer to? Thank you in advance.
My daughter is a sophomore at St. John’s and she’s questioning whether she really belongs there in order to make it to a graduate school. She’s really worried that other schools are not going to accept St. John’s credits.
Hey there, Momx2CollegeKids!
My reasons for leaving St. John’s were a bit complicated. I have a disability, and St. John’s isn’t very good at navigating that. Legally, all colleges are expected to work with disabled students and find “reasonable accommodations” to make up the difference if a disability prevents them from completing some part of their work. I have a condition that occasionally prevented me from getting out of bed, so sometimes I couldn’t attend class. This is not an uncommon issue; most schools use note takers, audio recordings, etc, to deal with it. But the administration at St. John’s was unwilling to accept such alternatives. They claimed the curriculum was so unique, any standard accommodation was inherently “unreasonable.”, As you may know, the school’s attendance policy is quite severe, so that was a problem. Students can miss a set number of classes (when I was there, it was three per semester). Exceeding that gets you an F in the class; exceeding it in two different classes results in automatic expulsion from the college.
They waived the flunking rule for me, but expected my tutors to “reflect [my] absences in their final grades.” Even my tutors were frustrated by that. I was a very dedicated, engaged student, and they had to give me C-s and Ds. Halfway through my sophomore year, which had been a particularly rough time, the assistant dean began the expulsion process. My tutors immediately went to bat for me and argued on my behalf, but turning that around was a whole ordeal. I was on the phone with the dean a dozen times during that winter break, essentially begging her to let me come back and continue paying tons of money to work tirelessly for bad grades. It was a bit ridiculous, and while I fought it on principle and did get to finish the year out, I knew I couldn’t deal with that for two more years.
So… that’s a pretty weird set of circumstances, haha! Which is why I didn’t elaborate before; it’s so strange and complicated, and wouldn’t be relevant to most people, anyway. But I suppose the fact that I put up with all of that certainly demonstrates how much I enjoyed the work I was doing and the people I was with.
Anyway! I definitely sympathize with your daughter. The good news is that transferring is CERTAINLY doable! I initially transferred to a state school where I’m from, and then took a leave of absence. But as I said above, one of my classmates transferred to Reed; another transferred to University of Texas at Austin, and another transferred to Mills College. They were all happy with their decisions, and really enjoyed where they wound up. So even choosy, elite schools aren’t necessarily off the table!
If she chooses to transfer, I highly recommend focusing on other liberal arts schools. St. John’s actually has quite a bit of name recognition in that branch of academia. Admissions offices at liberal arts colleges are familiar with “great books” programs, and St. John’s itself has a reputation for being rigorous and training students to be sharp, critical thinkers. As for transcripts… Johnnies tend to be a little too paranoid about that I initially transferred to an unremarkable and large state university, and even they were able to apply virtually all of my St. John’s credits.
The “transcript support” document I mentioned in my above post makes it pretty easy for any school to make sense of things and make sure all of your earned credits are being applied to your degree. You can see the Santa Fe version of that document here: https://www.sjc.edu/application/files/1514/6825/8701/PDF_Parchment_Transcript_Support.pdf )
The most crucial component of your daughter’s transfer application will be letters of recommendation. If she has a good rapport with a few tutors, then that will be a breeze. If she hasn’t gotten to know any outside of class (like taking them to lunch, using office hours), she should start building those relationships immediately. Since St. John’s has such vague grading guidelines, recommendations will give other schools a much better understanding of her strengths and abilities.
Also, virtually all of St. John’s tutors are the alumni of amazing colleges and universities. I’d encourage your daughter to peruse faculty bios, and see if any of her tutors, including former ones, graduated from schools she’s interested in. They’re usually pretty happy to pull whatever strings they can.
I hope this has helped somewhat!! If you have other questions, feel free to ask; I’m happy to pass along any information that might be useful. I wish you and your daughter the best!