@PurpleTitan Calm down, sir. I am not ranking obsessed. I know they mean nothing, in fact, let me rephrase not much. But I think when the ranking places Harvard (ranked 1-3th) above Stony Brook (ranked like 80th), that is something we can all agree on. I understand Brown vs Stanford for CS may not be too different, although I am sure we can agree that people in most circles would pick Stanford for CS. Rankings can provide a general idea of strength of program, although not perfect. US News ranks Princeton first, and Harvard second. Does that mean Princeton is necessarily better than Harvard? No! Of course not. Both are equal. So, if Stanford and Brown CS can compare, I simply wonder, why Brown CS is not even in the top 20 in most rankings. That is all. Its not obsession. Its just that “Why are rankings so flawed for Brown CS”?
You’re not comparing Stony Brook with Harvard or even Brown with Stanford (which you have very little chance at).
You’re scheming to go from Brown to UPenn/Columbia for CS and I’m showing you how silly that is.
@PurpleTitan Okay there is a misunderstanding here. My response in post 20 was to your comment about my supposed ranking-obsession. I never said I wanted to transfer to Columbia or Penn because they had a better CS program. In fact, I am not even sure that they do! I would not be surprised if they didn’t. There were many other reasons as well, which I highlighted a few posts ago.
My reasons for preferring Penn and Columbia over Brown are clear. I prefer a vibrant city atmosphere but with still an enclosed campus, both of which Penn and Columbia’s Philadelphia and New York City offer. Providence is a nice city, but it is nothing compared to the likes of Philadelphia and New York City. I also do not really like the feeling I got from Brown when I visited. Unfortunately, ADOCH was scheduled a day after 4/20. Being a staunch advocate of non-smoking, and non-drinking, I know that Brown has a lot of it. I just did not like the overall feelng, and I personally think that there are many downsides to the open curriculum. I love the Core Curriculum of Columbia because it builds completely, and at least Penn still has distribution requirements. I want to pursue a career in investment banking or on Wall Street. Penn’s Wharton is undeniably the best in placement, being the best undergraduate business program, and Columbia’s location is so close to WS that I am sure that recruitment happens there as well. They are also both closer to home, which is less relevant but still important to me.
I think we can all agree that especially Stanford and MIT are probably the two most reputed computer science institutions in the world. Two institutions that I would have little chance to transfer to, as well, which I agree to. My primary goal in this thread is to consider transfer options to Penn and Columbia, rather than to harp on the options for Stanford or MIT. I will simply be applying to Stanford and MIT at the time, just because. I know they are very highly reputed institutions, which has been my dream to attend. If Penn and Columbia did not exist, or I did not want to transfer to them, I would not bother even attempting to transfer to Stanford or MIT. What would be the point in wasting valuable time to try to transfer to two institutions much more unlikely to accept me anyways? It is simply because I am considering transferring to Penn and Columbia, and will already be investing time in filling out the base transfer application, and already adopting a mindset to transfer, that I simply add on Stanford and MIT. If I am already trying, why not just tack on two more schools (which are my dream)?
@arwarw Thank you so much for providing a very helpful input on this. I am not sure I will transfer; I might end up loving Brown to bits! I am just wondering of these things to assist me in my decision. It is often hard to gauge strenght of program by rankings or word of mouth, and I just wanted to make sure that Brown CS is well-regarded in industry. Right now, it seems that I most likely will not transfer. My proposed reasons for transferring were primarily non-academic, as highlighted in post 22, but earlier on I provided a few academic reasons as well (e.g. Wharton for investment banking and finance). Right now, I feel like I do not gel well with Brown. I like structure, and although have varied interests, want them to be funneled in an appropriate, controlled way. I want to be in a big city.
But who knows, that definitely may change! I may love Brown. But that’s what I was trying to gauge here. What if I don’t like Brown? I do not love it too much right now, and there is a very real possibility that I do not enjoy my time there. So, if I want to transfer, how easy would it be?
That’s all the purpose of this thread was, which I felt like you understood. So thank you very much!
@PurpleTitan It wasn’t to transfer because of perceived notion that overall prestige of Columbia was somehow more recognizable than Brown’s. They are both amazing in their own right. It’s simply that I just do not like Brown too much as of now, and I was considering other universities a better fit socially and psychologically, as well as comparable (if not better, like Wharton) academics.
By the way, if you noticed, all of Harvard, MIT, and Stanford fit the same criteria that I presented for Columbia and Penn. Harvard and MIT are in Cambridge (very close to Boston), and Stanford is in the Silicon Valley (literally the home of the technological powerhouses, and the weather is simply a plus).
It is only Brown, that is located in small city Providence, and has a vastly different student body. If I listed all these universities, and tried to pick the one that is most different (not in terms of prestige or academics even), but just social fit, Brown would definitely be the most different. And that is not necessarily a bad thing! Many people love Brown. But I just do not know if it is right for me. Thank you.
Why did you apply to Brown?
Did you apply to some target/safety schools that meet your criteria? If so, what are your other options?
I don’t think the shotgun approach is going to work so well for trying to transfer to this schools. You’re going to need college professor recommendations - and the more specific and focused a case you can make for one particular school the better your chances. Better yet, have a professor(s) call and email their friends and colleagues at the other school on your behalf. I can’t see a professor putting in the effort needed for all your dream schools.
Best of luck
@arwarw Why did I apply to Brown? Well, it ended up being the only Ivy League I was accepted to, so there’s that. I applied because with my stats 2310 SAT, 4.0 UW GPA, Research at many top cancer research insitutions (3, in the Greater NYC + LI area), captain of matheletes (AIME qualifier, ranked 4th in county), president of robotics, and captain of the varsity tennis team, and member of the cross country team, with 100 hours of volunteer service, that I should get into at least one Ivy. I applied to all 8, because I would rather attend one of them than my state flagship (Bing or Stony). Brown was the only one I was accepted to. Rejected Harvard and Princeton. Waitlisted everywhere else.
I also applied to RPI, SBU, and Binghamton, and UC Berkeley (where I was waitlisted too). Accepted to RPI, SBU, and Binghamton. None of which, unfortunately, meet the criteria (all located in pretty remote low-key areas). I should have applied to perhaps NYU or BU, but those schools are very expensive, and much less likely to give financial aid than the Ivies. I would have had to pay a full 60k to attend those, instead of 39k at Brown right now.
I’m sorry. That’s unfortunate. There are a lot of great non-Ivy League schools in Boston, NYC, Chicago and Philly. Some that offer very generous merit scholarships.
How hard are you and your GC working the wait list? have you made a strong commitment to Penn (or Columbia) that if you’re accepted, you would immediately accept the offer, forgoing your spot at Brown; and immediately withdraw your name from the waitlists at Yale, Columbia, Berkley etc…
With regard to Brown, if you are a double concentrator with comp sci, you won’t really have much of an open curriculum. You’ll have a lot of required classes.
Let me guess OP, you are a Brown legacy. That is why you got in there and not to other comparable and schools that fit better with your goals. That Brown legacy thing works well for wealthy offspring. Tell me I am wrong!
You are correct about Brown and engineering, including computer engineering. Even if US news does not give it a poor ranking, rankings that don’t consider school’s reputation don’t rank it well. QS World University Rankings by Subject 2014 - Computer Science & Information Systems does not list it in the top 50-and that is CS not computer engineering.
But that’s not your question. Yes you are better off from Brown then from a a lower ranked school as a general rule but not necessarily in your case. If you nailed your engineering classes at RPI and nailed your history class at Brown-you’d have a better shot from RPI. The post listed above is also incorrect about CS at Penn. Yes it is stronger than Brown.
Wanting a school that is a better fit for your interests is certainly a reasonable rationale for transferring. The question is how realistic it is that you’ll get into any of the schools you want. If I am correct about your legacy status, chances for the very competitive ones are small. If I am incorrect, then you may have a slim chance. Not to MIT or Stanford unless you get national recognition for your accomplishments in the next year (when you wrote “AIME qualifier, ranked 4th in county” you meant county right, not country?). Short of that, your best bet among the schools like those you’ve listed are Cornell, Penn, UC-B,. Might also try Georgia Tech, VT. Naturally there are others. I 'd go to Brown unless you know you can Ace the most rigorous courses at RPI to enhance transfer potential. But, if you are willing to give up on the most competitive schools, graduating with an engineering degree from RPI is nothing to sneer at.
@lostaccount, you’re basing the quality of the undergraduate education on research rankings. There is some correlation there, but the simple fact is that Brown CS grads do very well. Please show me something that shows that UPenn CS grads or RPI CS grads do better than Brown CS grads. Rankings based on faculty research output don’t count.
I agree that the OP did a poor job of coming up with a list of schools to apply to, applying to a bunch of schools where he isn’t a good fit or isn’t interested in
I agree with @PurpleTitan on the rankings. I would compare employment results instead. I posted a link above, but here’s a excerpt from the link:
A problem is lack of validity in your outcome data. The other is problems with attributions related to outcome . That is, high paying jobs after Brown may have nothing to do with the fact that the student went to Brown.That does not provide information about the strength of the program. My understanding is that the curriculum and the research opportunities are better at other places and less good at Brown. My understanding is that the entry level math and science skills of engineering and computer science students at Brown are less strong than those of engineering and computer science students at other schools with stronger computer science and engineering programs. My understanding is that the breadth of research topics and labs is more restricted at Brown compared to other programs. There is a reason Brown is not well known for its strong engineering and computer science programs. It has to do with relative quality. Oh yeah, and those on the cutting edge of engineering and computer science are not chomping at the bit to get themselves a hot position at Goldman Sachs! lol what is that, the results from a handful of computer science majors? What does what tell you. Nothing.
@lostaccount LOL Legacy?? Are you kidding me? Lol’d. Wealthy parents? If you call middle class 130k family income wealthy, then you must be right. My parents graduated from India schools, just fyi. And all of the waitlists alone should tell you that I am qualified for these schools. That is what the waitlist means. It is for people who are qualified but not as qualified as those accepted, but the next go-to kids for the university. Yale waitlists still puts me in to 10-12% of Yale applicants, as does Columbia’s or Penn’s most likely.
And just for your information, I was accepted at Duke and JHU BME as well, but the same issue applies to Duke, and JHU is good for BME, but I recently discovered that job prospects for BME are not too great in general, especially for going into pure CS (which I am much more interested in).
@arwarw Yes, I will demonstrate very strong interest, committing to waitlist for Columbia. May I ask who you are? Parent, student, etc? I know I can peruse old threads, but I am too lazy for that 
Unless you are a great basketball player who doesn’t give a damn about your education. Then, by all means, apply to duke. Make sure you tell K that you’ll push his wheelchair and pay for his dinner, and wipe the tip of his nose, even though he is publicly an upstanding individual who supports undergraduate education. (laughing my a$$ off). Mike krzyzewski is a charlatan who makes an otherwise great university the Kentucky/Calipari of the East Coast: he does not give a damn about his players’ educations as long as they win him self-glorifying championships, and he should be chastised for it. break that beak of a nose, rip his tupee off, make him into the corporate goat that he is.
@prezbucky This has nothing to do with anything. Please, take your rant about Coach K elsewhere.
Um… the OP said “If attending a school like Duke, Northwestern…”. K is the Duke logo practically. Do you pay attention to USian sports?
And where does your understanding of Brown CS come from, @lostaccount?
Mind you, I don’t have a dog in this fight.
As for GS, that depends on what part. Some parts of GS (and hedge funds, HF trading firms, etc.) do attract the top yalent in CS.
You know, @lostaccount, you don’t seem to show too much awareness of what you don’t know.
@interest82 Sure, I’m a parent. My son is a sophomore in High school who wants to pursue CS, so I’m researching colleges with him. My daughter is currently a freshmen at Brown. I’m also an engineer who graduated from Georgia Tech.
@losataccount said
It is job placement data for econ/cs concentrators, which is a very small group.
Here is 2013 Job placement for Brown CS concentrators:
@arwarw Awesome! What schools was your daughter deliberating between, and what is she concentrating in now at Brown?