<p>There are many students who are going to very good composition programs that have not been composing from a young age. Some have been, but most composers start being serious later than instrumentalists. But what is common is their passion for composition no matter when they started. Maybe the time in Spain will inspire the composition passion within you. Start studying scores with a wild abandon. Listen to a great variety of music. Composition is not that different from writing in the sense that you what you see, hear and feel can provide the basis for inspiration. In another thread I asked the question as to the piece of music or the composer that inspired the student to want to study composition in college. I put the question that question to you.</p>
<p>Bartokrules (awesome name btw, but I must confess that I feel that RavelRULESMORE! :)_) I have to say, what really captured my heart was many years ago when I heard the Memoirs of a Geisha soundtrack. It encapsulated each character, and I was especially moved by the ending scene (more like I cried). I want to be able to entice the audience with my music, I want them to understand what I feel, I want to have the ability to make them cry, laugh, or become happier. That’s what music should do, in my opinion. Where can I get such scores? IMSLP doesn’t really have film composer’s music.</p>
<p>LOS, film composers,as far as I know, have the same classical training as any other composers. The USC program is a grad program. I also think the majority of students go to different schools for grad than undergrad. So finishing as CIM and then going to USC might work. The music world is small, and you can make useful connections at CIM, then at grad school. Networking online is very useful these days as well.</p>
<p>Application in composition requires 3-5 pieces, and most of them should actually be played by some excellent musicians. Applicants are likely to submit 20 minute pieces, some of them orchestral. Yes, many composers start at an older age than instrumentalists, and no you don’t have to be a child prodigy, but you have to have written and recorded enough for a portfolio. It also helps to have listened to a lot of music, including “new music.” Lessons and classes or summer programs are often helpful in development and the latter provide a chance to get good recordings.</p>
<p>I personally think, with your talents, that you are making a mistake thinking vocationally early on. There are many ways to go with a BM, including some entrepreneurial efforts with ensembles, working for music organizations, and, frankly, any grad school or job that you want to apply for: a BM is a bachelor’s like anything else.</p>
<p>I am afraid that by focusing on jobs at this stage, that you will not focus on the musical directions that you are talented in and that you may enjoy, including violin itself. What happened to that path?</p>
<p>I do have a composer among my kids, who attends an Ivy college (she wanted to go to conservatory but we could not afford it). Her studies have nothing whatsoever to do with recording technology and yet she is now deep into Protools in an electroacoustic lab, and also, perhaps more importantly to you, plays a large role in recording CD’s for a major orchestra. </p>
<p>Life goes in squiggles, not lines (I just saw a cartoon on that). Don’t overplan. Let things happen. If you are going to CIM, I think it would be much better to focus on getting the most out of the undergrad program there. Connections and film/tv can come later. It takes patience, I know. IF applying to USC helps you feel better, fine, but I think that staying at CIM and developing as a violinist, or, if big changes happen, composition, or both, is a great way to go.</p>
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<p>Okay, let me be clear here. CIM’s tuition is $40,000 a year, before living expense. If you have the means to have $40,000 worth of your parent’s money in effect NOT contribute to your final degree, then you have the luxury to choose, change your mind, make other plans, and really only have to justify same to them.</p>
<p>If, however, you are in any way relying on scholarships, financial aid, and loans, you should be very aware that there is a federal maximum to what you can borrow, and that CIM’s tuition for ONE year exceeds that FOUR Year total. So it really DOES matter. Many students also assume that it’s a simple matter to secure private loans, but those too can max out when your ratio exceeds a particular level. So most students really do have to consider carefully whether a first year somewhere other than where they want to be is actually financially viable or sensible. You are fortunate if that’s not the case. But in fairness, you will want to be certain that you have your parent’s blessing to take longer than the four years most folks plan for. Because in our household, it’s four years, then you’re on your own dime ;)</p>
<p>It just seems to me that in mid-June a student with a conservatory acceptance should be looking forward to, and getting excited about THAT, not plotting already to leave. If I were your benefactor, that would tell me all I needed to know about whether to invest that 40,000 (technically, more like 200,000). I would want you to be loving what you were about to do, or falling back to take the steps you need in order to get to where you actually want to be.</p>
<p>If your grades or SAT had anything to do with rejection from USC, which is comparable to umich in terms of stats, you should also know that such schools generally only take a second look academically after your college sophomore year, with an expectation of a particular level of academic performance. My son, for example, has a friend for whom umich was first choice, who was wait listed in his som discipline – despite having top stats academically and sufficient talent. He went to another very fine conservatory, and has spent the last three years attempting to transfer in to Umich’s SOM, unsuccessfully.
For every student who successfully transfers to a SOM, there are many who don’t. </p>
<p>However, there’s no need to go to USC to learn to compose, and there is no reason on earth not to work on composition wherever you are. You can embrace your current opportunity, commit to it, and enjoy the present. But if you’re going to spend the next four years thinking that you’re in the wrong place or looking over your shoulder to USC, I fear you will neither enjoy the opportunity you have or have the moxy to get through the tough spots – because there always ARE tough spots, and just like marriage, you have to close that back door and be where you are like you mean it ;)</p>
<p>So if you think that’s how things might go for you, stop now, take the gap, apply to composition programs next year and see where things land. You have until dec 1 to get a portfolio together. Frankly, my son spent a year preparing his, and had been writing/making music for a few years prior, but you won’t know until you try.</p>
<p>Then once you’ve taken your best shot, either proceed, or determine where you want to be for performance that fulfills your other desires. Truly, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Life is not a race.</p>
<p>LOS, thanks for responding with your inspirations. Do not buy scores new. Go to used book stores. The ones by university music schools are the best. We go to a great used book store near the University of North Texas. My son is amazed at what he finds for 3 or 4 dollars. Another option is the music school libraries that have vast collections and often check out privileges.</p>
<p>What you said about people being moved by your music is how those people already feel when they hear you play. Studying violin at CIM is an honor a relative few get to enjoy. Besides there is likely a graduate composition student or even an upper level undergraduate composition student who wouldn’t mind making a few extra bucks with composition lessons for you.</p>
<p>Apologies for throwing in my opinion, clearly I know nothing about composition, but here goes: USC is a great school. However, as a fellow native Californian we have learned that there is an amazing world east of the Rockies. Music is not just about LA/NY. It is global. You need to start thinking global. You also can’t be thinking about running before you learn to crawl. Get your basic education, do it well, make good use of your summers and be patient. Along the way, meet as many people as possible and be nice to everybody. Also, I think going to school far away from home will be good for you.</p>
<p>CLRN8MOM, great post. LOS, if you want to focus on one post, I think it should be that one!</p>
<p>Another “must” for potential comp majors is a whole lot of music theory, something to be considered if you don’t have a good start or don’t like it!
I’m also in the camp that believes that no school is “perfect” and that a student who has always wanted to attend a particular school is apt to be disappointed when reality doesn’t match up to expectations. Composing, even for film, is not just limited to the west coast’ the Internet and all of it’s components has erased geographical limitations. I know composers living in the US (including one who recently relocated from London to LA for family reasons) who are working on commissions for European opera houses and others who live in Europe who write for houses here. By the way, one of those guys has no formal training in composition,but ( like Jake Heggie) made contact with a well-known opera singer and began composing song cycles and pieces specifically for her voice. The soprano performs his works regularly and the opera he is working on for her will debut in Vienna in 2013. Through her, he’s met other singers who are also commissioning works. Point of this tale is that networking and contacts are very important, but can be made in a lot of places; you just have to be willing and able to put yourself out there to find them.</p>
<p>Wow, so many responses! Okay…kmcmom what you say I totally agree with. I don’t want to keep looking over my shoulder but I cannot help it. I’m not trying to sound ignorant, but LA is where I want to be and the connections at least at USC’s composition dept. are unparalleled. </p>
<p>Compmom-- USC has a composition program from BM and if you graduate from that then you are automatically guaranteed for a spot in their graduate program for Film Scoring for Motion Pictures. If I completed my double major degree at CIM I could still audition for USC’s grad program…</p>
<p>Bartokrules-- wow, thanks for the advice! I’ll definitely keep that in mind! :)</p>
<p>Mezzo’s— yeah I took AP Music Theory back in HS and passed and I kept up by taking theory classes at the Colburn School. I must confess that there are a lot of holes in my curriculum, but during these next 4 years, I hope to patch those up and become an even better artist and intellect. </p>
<p>I’m just torn between to two :p</p>
<p>I think I focused too much on the money in my earlier post, though it is a serious concern for most. I should add, though, that I felt at USC that they were warning that doing any college after high school, and therefore becoming a transfer student, would actually make it a whole lot more difficult to get in. If you are really serious about trying to transfer, I would call an advisor at Thornton and ask about the logistics. I just remember the woman we met being very insistent about it.</p>
<p>Yeah I know it’s EXTREMELY if not impossible to get in as a transfer, but it is possible. I’m just going to try, and if not, i’m going to make the best of my situation. That’s all I can do. :)</p>
<p>LOS, I don’t want to sound harsh, but your plan to apply to USC for compositions verges on delusion. I don’t think you really understand the hard path to becoming a craftsman composer. Do you think you are going to have a portfolio sufficient to apply, in a year? Is there any evidence of your ability to compose, as yet? I’m not saying you won’t, but composition is difficult and it takes a long time to find your '“voice.”</p>
<p>I suggest you listen to a lot of composers, including more contemporary composers of concert music. That may help you understand.</p>
<p>Doing a double major at CIM is going to be difficult also. My wish for you is that you stop worrying about getting a job, at this point, and start off with violin. Or are you somehow not motivated in that direction? Splitting your energies will be stressful that first year.</p>
<p>Finally, I think the obstinacy you are showing (sorry, but I have to say it) seems to indicate that you want to be in LA. I think you are afraid to leave home, frankly. Talking with a counselor might really help you figure out why you are so stuck on USC.</p>
<p>You want to be a composer so you can work in film, which means you can stay near home. That is the only explanation I can come up with for what you are proposing. You need more authentic reasons for composing. For instance, a feeling that you just cannot help doing it!</p>
<p>LOS, I got interrupted by one of my own kids while writing the last post and ended up sending it without intending the message. I did not want to be so harsh! </p>
<p>I am just concerned for the stress you are setting yourself up for, with a double major at CIM, including violin practice, lessons and performance, while also dealing with an application to USC w/portfolio simultaneously, and with only a fraction of your heart and mind where you actually are.</p>
<p>If this scenario helps with your transition, so that you feel you have choice, go for it. But just know that assembling a portfolio for a composition application can be pretty overwhelming. It does not matter how long you have composed. it can be months. But getting the scores and parts to musicians, rehearsing, recording, and then sending packages to a school, takes a lot of time and energy (and sometimes money). </p>
<p>So just be careful of yourself in that first stressful year.</p>
<p>You sound like a very talented musician. Appreciate the talents you have and enjoy yourself, and see where things take you.</p>
<p>Again, apologies for the unintended message.</p>
<p>lifeofsolitude, i’m sure we know ppl in common~ i’m a violin major in LA!</p>
<p>Compmom---- no, your message wasn’t really harsh. I prefer to hear an observation that is honest rather than candy coated. I do want to stay in LA, but I also want to work in film. We will see where my life takes me. </p>
<p>UC----What school are you in? yeah, we probably run in the same circles :)</p>
<p>I work at a public high school and deal with many students with high goals for life. Many choose what they think is fail-proof method of picking classes and activities to get them into top colleges and careers by covering all the high level classes. They don’t have a focus but instead pick classes based on what will get them to choice colleges or just in case one career or major doesn’t work out. Often I findthem in classes they do not enjoy or do not do well. I do understand students taking varied classes to broaden their knowledge. However, These students I am talking about go beyond. They try to cover all possible future mistakes now by over-thinking.</p>
<p>Life of Solitude, you must be a very talented violinist to get into CIM with a sizable scholarship. Don’t overextend yourself and plan too much and too far. Having a goal and planning to achieve it is not a bad thing but second guessing and over- extending can bring you worse results. Try to see what is positive about what you have in your plate and what you can do to improve it in a given condition. When you deal with life positively, some wonderful things happen in unexpected ways.</p>
<p>In your previous post, you mentioned you live and breath music, and seemed to be resigned to spend your life in a practice room. Get out and live life more fully. Playing well is important but having good social skills and connecting with others is as important. Gaining knowledge in different areas, having a right attitude, living life fully utilizing what you have now might be more productive than constantlymaking back-up plans.</p>
<p>I am sorry if I sound a little harsh but I also have a son who is entering a conservatory in violin performance. These are all the advice I would also give to my son.</p>
<p>Hi LifeofSolitude!</p>
<p>A lot of good advice here, but I want to point out a few things. While I agree that you should try to embrace CIM while there, I also see that you are determined to try to transfer. So here goes:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>There ARE successful transfers into Thornton. And USC (not Thornton specifically) takes TONS of transfers who apply in freshman year for sophomore year (unlike a lot of other schools, particularly publics). Not sure why, but they do. You can check the USC Transfer thread.</p></li>
<li><p>Talk to someone at USC about transfer credits before you register. There will be some courses, particularly Aural Skills, Theory and GE’s that will transfer. Maybe not all, but some. (Some students even test of Aural Skills/Theory.) It is done. I’m not sure who said to avoid taking college classes before attempting to transfer to USC, because it can and does happen. Yes, you might lose a few credits.</p></li>
<li><p>I’m confused about what you’d be applying for as a transfer. In one spot, you said you were going to try and reapply to USC as a violin, but a BA. In another, you seem to be saying you’ll apply to transfer into the comp department.</p></li>
<li><p>I think it was KCmom who said UMich and USC were similar as far as academic competitiveness. But USC has climbed quite a bit in recent years and is now even more difficult than UMich. I’m sure you can check the Admitted Students Profile, but I’m not sure if they have one for transfers.</p></li>
<li><p>You just never know how your interests will change and develop. My son started as a jazz major, then switched to popular music. His music tastes have evolved further. He’s recently become extremely interested in (and adept at) at mixing and other technical things I don’t understand. He’s learning that he can sing. CIM is a fantastic opportunity. Dive in at full force, and see where it takes you. It doesn’t hurt to also pursue a transfer. But you just never know. And the USC grad film program is always there.</p></li>
<li><p>I don’t know why I made this a list.</p></li>
</ol>