<p>^Very true, Psychology can be taken BA OR BS</p>
<p>only thing i got from this thread is that zchryevns is a tool</p>
<p>hopefully MIT kids are just nerdy and not such whiny *****es too</p>
<p>I wonder why so many “practical” majors/graduates are so concerned with what others do with their lives, including majoring in the liberal arts.
Hypothetically speaking, if the liberal arts were eliminated, what could that mean for the practical majors?
Increase in “practical” majors? What happens when the millions, or a large percentage of the millions who would have majored in the Liberal Arts, switch to the “practical” majors? What would happen to the demand of engineers, nurses, accountants, etc? What about the wages? </p>
<p>Even if Liberal Arts majors don’t lead to a direct career or job, so what?
Some people major in it for personal fulfillment, some people use that time to mature(after all, a 21 year old out of college tends to be much more mature and prepared for life-notice I didn’t write “career”-than an 18 year old out of high school). If it is not your life, then don’t worry about it. Society always needs people to do jobs that don’t require college education. Maybe liberal arts majors might have a hard time finding high payed employment, but their options are more than a high school graduate in our society. There are companies who don’t specify any field of study as a requirement to work for them, but do require a bachelor’s degree at the very minimum. Guess who takes those jobs? ALL types of majors. I would much rather have a society with unemployed college educated individuals, or employed educated individuals(doing jobs that don’t relate to their undergraduate majors or require a college education), than to have unemployed, or employed, high school graduates/drop outs.
From my experience, high schools that educate the majority of our population(I’m assuming public schools) don’t have the type of curriculum that expose students to much of anything except the basics, science, math, history, and english. How can anyone know if they want to study philosophy, art history, accounting, nursing, engineering, architecture, etc. when they haven’t even been exposed to it. </p>
<p>What about happiness and career/life enrichment? Prior to transferring into a new school to study the liberal arts, I used to attend a school for a “practical” trade. 2.5 years into my major, I realized how unhappy I would be having that practical major lead to a career. This was confirmed when I ended up interning in my field that same year. And this is after the fact that I had gone to a magnet high school, that gave me insight into what the major/career would be like. It is not usually until after the fact(experience) that one realizes if a “practical” major is or isn’t for them. I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be an unhappy lawyer, engineer, or doctor, who finds themselves stuck to their job because they made the mistake of taking on to much responsibility(responsibility that they could have learned to “think” about through their comparative education in things like history, philosophy, literature, etc) straight out of college. This responsibility being large debt, a family at a young age, mortgages, etc.
I personally am not in college to get a job or have a career. If anything my liberal arts education has served me to learn to question life and values(one’s that weren’t mine, but ones that are handed down to every one through socialization). Through my education, I’ve learned to devalue many of the things that our society blindly accepts, which for me means that I could be perfectly happy doing a job that only requires a high school education. I don’t need a 6 figure salary, or even a high 5 figure salary, because I FORTUNATELY don’t need or want many of the things our society tells us to want, i.e. a family to take care of, big house, luxury cars, etc. </p>
<p>I think the problem with many who argue against the liberal arts is that they lack really good teachers in the Liberal Arts, or the ability to connect the dots within the Liberal Arts. Lower division coursework in the liberal arts is NOT representative of upper division. For those that argue that the liberal arts, mainly the humanities, are to flimsy, or don’t provide much truth or foundations for further truth, then realize that THAT is the POINT. There is no definitive answer, just like in life there isn’t. The point of this type of education is to be able to reflect upon this in your life to hopefully lead you to a better life(not one that is monetary). If one wants to argue that this type of education can be had with a library card, then you are sadly mistaken. Good teachers, experts in the liberal arts, point out things that one might not have thought of, or help you connect the dots(especially when your knowledge, education isn’t that broad outside of a field). I’m not saying that some people aren’t capable of learning it on their own, but the fact of the matter is that more are inclined to learn when they are exposed to it by a course/teacher/etc. Just like Calculus, you can’t just pick up Nietzsche, and expect to understand what you are studying. There are foundations. If you don’t know what the foundations are, or aren’t forced to take classes on the foundations by a system who decides for you(college/university), then you’ll need good luck if you are going to try to learn it on your own. (One only needs to take for example the many who read or study the bible on their own, or are only offered one perspective by their relative faith/priest/teacher. It leads to ignorance).</p>
<p>Lastly, at the end of the day, and we see this now in our society, no major directly leads to employment. There are other factors that are involved, such as being able to interview, having relative skills(which could be acquired outside of a 4 year undergraduate school) and work experience(internships, etc) When I used to attend school for my “practical” major, many of the recruiters, employers, and teachers would emphasize the need for students who aren’t just workers. On top of having the skills for the job-which in some fields one could be trained on the job without needing a practical major, employees/students/potential hires need to have great communication skills. I’m not saying that the liberal arts better prepare you for those great communication skills, but generally speaking, liberal arts majors tend to be forced to relate with people outside of their disciplines which better prepare you to work with all types of people, not just those that will be your co-workers or your boss.</p>
<p>This is one of those discussions that will never be resolved.
The combination of immaturity, ■■■■■■, and stubbornness get in the way. Obviously liberal arts serve purposes, to say the opposite is just too bold of a statement. And no pretentious word play can prove they serve no purposes at all.</p>
<p>A purpose is something that helps me
Liberal Arts do not help me
∴ Liberal Arts serve no purpose</p>
<p>Liberal Arts is just for pussies.</p>
<p>ThisCouldBeHeavn,</p>
<p>Having read the major works of literature, or seen the great plays, or read the great sociology tracts has helped me to be a better rounded individual than I was before college.</p>
<p>It has given me insight into the human condition that a major in, say, mathematics would not have done.</p>
<p>Also, I want to mention something for everyone’s benefit. </p>
<p>Liberal arts does not mean “English.” Liberal arts means: “a curriculum that imparts general knowledge and develops the student’s rational thought and intellectual capabilities, unlike the professional, vocational and technical curricula emphasizing specialization. The contemporary liberal arts comprise studying literature, languages, philosophy, history, mathematics, and science.”</p>
<p>So, if you attack the liberal arts, you also attack math and science.</p>
<p>But hey, it’s much more fun arguing from ignorance. Carry on.</p>
<p>Here’s a novel idea: Why don’t we all just be secure in our major and not feel the need to draw this out? I’m going to major in Sociology regardless of what any of the posts say. Why? Well because I’m good at it, interested in it, I want to go to law school and it will garner a good GPA for me, and I’ve seen first-hand what a degree in Sociology can and can not get. Will I be the next Bill Gates? Probably not. Will I have a house and car and a normal life? Definitely.</p>
<p>
I’m pretty sure TCBH is ranging between lots of sarcasm and opposing the OP.</p>
<p>Also, I’ve been holding a pun in me for a while; it has to come out.</p>
<p>Well, if the OP wants to be an engineer, fine. At least we know he won’t be a civil engineer.</p>
<p><em>budum tish</em></p>
<p>BillyMc,</p>
<p>NO U.</p>
<p>When I read Ecce Homo, Nietzsche kind of came across as a sociopath.</p>
<p>I realize this argument has essentially run its course, as none of the OP’s ridiculous points stand up to any logic, but I wanted to share the article below as I feel it lends some different insight.</p>
<p>Not that this article doesn’t have some problems, but I think on the whole it provides a very cogent defense of the humanities in a way that we have not seen on this thread. That is, it concedes that humanities may not be as practical or career-oriented as engineering, math, and science, but argues that pragmatism is not the only thing of importance, that the humanities can do for us what Shakespeare and James and Fitzgerald and Faulkner and Orwell ad infinitum (but who needs those guys anyway, right???) can, what studying derivatives and integrals and vectors and Stoichiometry can’t.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/08/opinion/08brooks.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/08/opinion/08brooks.html</a></p>
<p>An above user posted the following:
Even if Liberal Arts majors don’t lead to a direct career or job, so what? </p>
<p>My response:
If a major does not result in a job (or a job that is not off limits to someone who did not go to college), that is a bad thing. It is costing $10,000-40,000 per year to pay for a university education. If you simply want to learn for knowledge without a career, you can get a library card for free, read all of the books you want about the Trojan War and Plato, and not have thousands of dollars of debt to pay off.</p>
<p>
Who writes those books, though?</p>
<p>You can get a library card to a University library for a minimal fee, and then have access to just about any book.</p>
<p>
However, what the poster said was:
e.g. an Engineering degree leads to a job in engineering, whereas a History degree could lead to law school, graduate school to go into academia, etc.</p>
<p>If your plan is to go to law, then majoring in Jurisprudence or Political Science will help, but Classics and English Lit are not closely related to Law. Though you can major in anything to go into law school, even math or science.</p>
<p>
Classics majors have among the highest admit rates to law schools, and the Roman legal system and the Latin language are related to law.</p>
<p>ok, i don’t really have time to read all of this thread, so i’ll just reply to the original post:</p>
<p>one of my biggest pet peeves is when people actually have a valid point but then completely f*** it up. you have a really good point that our country does not emphasize science and math enough since we’re falling behind the rest of the world. if you had just said that, you would have a nice argument. however, your claim that any liberal arts education is worthless invalidates your entire argument. sure, we need more engineers, but do you seriously think that we don’t need politicians, therapists, writers, artists, and diplomats? there is a world beyond science, and there are other things that are important. why should someone who wants to be a social worker spend four years learning math when it will be irrelevant to his/her life? some people are meant to be STEM majors, and some are supposed to do other things. you could make the argument that liberal arts majors aren’t as valuable as STEM majors, and i’d disagree with you but be ok with you’re argument, but saying that the liberal arts are worthless is just plain incorrect. you’re welcome to share your opinion, but you need to make room for the opinions of others if you want to get anywhere. if you had taken more liberal arts classes, maybe you would have known that.</p>