Trimming the List

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I'm really not comfortable with the amount of schools I'm applying to. I would like to narrow it down to 10, ideally. </p>

<p>As for my criteria in a school, I want to go to a place where I can really learn and where most of the people love to learn as well. I know that there will be some grade queens everywhere, and I'm not saying that people shouldn't be motivated to do well - I just want to go to a place with lots of intellectuality and where the atmosphere isn't cut throat. </p>

<p>Here is my list. I would greatly appreciate any advice:</p>

<p>KEEPERS:
1) Wellesley College</p>

<p>2) Columbia University</p>

<p>3) Harvard University</p>

<p>4) Barnard College</p>

<p>5) Macaulay Honors - Hunter</p>

<p>6) Brown University</p>

<p>Continued below.</p>

2

<p>NOT SURE/NEED MORE INFO:</p>

<p>7) Fordham
I’m not sure how much I want to go to Fordham. It would be a safety school. I know my list is pretty heavy with reaches, so my plan is to apply here early action. If I get in, I don’t need to worry about more safeties.</p>

<p>8) Georgetown
I’m thinking of majoring in International Relations, and Georgetown has a great school for that. Plus, Georgetown has early action. I know Georgetown is a much harder school to get into, but if I don’t get in, I can apply to some safeties RD.</p>

<p>Ideally, I would prefer Georgetown. Unfortunately, its kinda far from where I live (NYC). I can’t bring myself to leave my mother so far away. I’m her only child and she will become very lonely. I know that she is going to have a very, very hard time living without me. </p>

<p>9) Cornell</p>

<p>10) Princeton
I’m really not a prestige whore - honest. As I said earlier, I really just want to go somewhere with a lot of opportunities available and an intellectual atmosphere, and these schools seem to have that.</p>

<p>From what I know, Princeton focuses a lot on undergraduate study, which is important to me.</p>

<p>11) Yale
I’ve heard that Yale also places a lot of emphasis on undergraduate study. I actually need to learn more about the school. I’ve been doing a lot of research but can’t seem to find anything distinctive about the school.</p>

<p>12) University of Pennsylvania</p>

<p>13) NYU
I really dislike that the school doesn’t have a campus. I would rather not apply but my parents really want me to stay in NY and are pushing me to apply here.</p>

<p>14) Johns Hopkins University</p>

<p>This list is out of control. Please help!</p>

3

<p>It’s NOT asking too much that a college have a … campus. Some people don’t need a campus, and that’s fine for them. But don’t spend $200,000 and 4 years of your life at a place without a campus if you want a campus. So I’d dump NYU.</p>

<p>I’d also dump Hopkins, as it’s kind of far away, Baltimore isn’t so great, and it’s not known for the nurturing academic atmosphere you seem to want.</p>

<p>If getting home to see your family a lot is important, Cornell might not be a good choice, as it’s really a long hike from NYC (without the easy plane/train rides you can get from DC and Boston to NYC).</p>

<p>You’re really top-heavy with schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Columbia. These are literally the hardest schools in the country to get into. So by all means apply, but be aware that you could be brilliant and still get rejected by all of them.</p>

<p>I know you’re trying to shorten your list, but have you considered Smith College for a quasi-safety? It’s a lot easier to get into than its quality warrants. Usually people who’d consider Fordham and Georgetown would also consider Boston College. And people interested in int’l affairs often look at Tufts.</p>

<p>Not to get personal, but isn’t college EXACTLY the time for parents and their kids to get used to not being together all the time?</p>

4

<p>You say you’re not a “prestige whore.” Drop some of your Ivies, it’ll make your supplements to the common app a lot easier.</p>

5

<p>Thank you for your help! I really appreciate it. </p>

<p>I am actually thinking of dropping some of the Ivies. It seems stupid to apply to so many of them. I’m trying to learn more about them to see which ones I want to keep and which ones I should drop.</p>

<p>Do you have any suggestions, or any information, about the colleges that can help? Please note that I’m not being lazy - I’ve tried to do a lot of research but sometimes you get the same, generic stuff from colleges.</p>

<p>Schmaltz, you’re right - college is the time for parents and kids to get used to living without each other. However, due to some family issues I know my mother will have a very difficult time without me. I’m really the only thing she’s got going for her over here.</p>

<p>I’ve heard that JHU is actually NOT as cut throat as the rumors are - is this true?</p>

<p>I went to Tufts but I didn’t like it. I don’t know why - its a great school, but once I stepped onto the campus I knew I didn’t want to spend 4 years there. </p>

<p>I am worried that my list is so heavy with such selective schools. I’m not delusional and I know that my chances are quite slim…if anyone has any other suggestions for schools that foster an intellectual atmosphere but aren’t so selective, that would be great. </p>

<p>I will look into Smith.</p>

6

<p>

The OP is top-heavy, period. I don’t see a single safety on the list.</p>

<p>Your List
Barnard College
Brown University
Columbia University
Harvard University
Macaulay Honors - Hunter
Wellesley College</p>

<p>Your Options
Keep
Fordham- You need a safety/safe match.</p>

<p>Consider keeping (1 or 2)
Georgetown
Penn
Princeton </p>

<p>Drop
Cornell
Hopkins - Even further than DC.
NYU - You already have 3 NYC schools (4 with Fordham), and you don’t like it.
Yale - You have enough reaches. </p>

<p>My suggested list:

  • Your 6 keep schools (Barnard, Brown, Columbia, Harvard, Hunter, Wellesley)
  • Fordham
  • 1 or 2 of Georgetown, Penn, Princeton
  • 1 or 2 financial safeties</p>

<p>You need a college on your list that you know you can afford. Perhaps a SUNY or CUNY might work, although I admit I’m not very familiar with NY public schools.</p>

<p>Have you looked into American or GWU?</p>

7

<p>There’s nothing at all wrong with applying to all those Ivy schools IF you also apply to some other schools that you’re more likely to get into.</p>

<p>Smith has excellent academics, typically accepts around 50% of applicants, and is in Western Massachusetts (so it’s closer to NYC than is Boston).</p>

<p>Also, have you considered Vassar? It’s really close to NYC.</p>

8

<p>Wow, I can’t believe I never looked into getting from Cornell to NYC by train - there is literally no way! My parents say they can buy me a car, but they aren’t made of money! </p>

<p>I think I definitely want to go to a school where I can take a train home. I know myself and I won’t be comfortable with 2-3 hour drives right away. </p>

<p>IBclass, that is really good advice about the schools. I’m just wondering why you advised me to drop Yale and not Princeton.</p>

9

<p>

Good question. I actually prefer Yale but suggested Princeton because:</p>

<p>1) Although not as bad as people make it out to be, New Haven is not a great city. (Neither is Princeton, but at least it’s a bit more insulated.)</p>

<p>2) If you decide to switch into a related field, Woody Woo at Princeton is highly regarded.</p>

<p>3) Your other universities are all fairly urban. Princeton offers a more suburban campus, if you decide that’s for you.</p>

10

<p>I just took a good look at a map. There are enough schools within a [roughly] 2-hour radius of NYC that you really shouldn’t have to go all the way to the Boston, Providence, Baltimore, or WashDC areas unless you REALLY love one of the schools (Harvard, Wellesley, Brown, Georgetown, Hopkins) that is that far away.</p>

<p>In other words, you have Columbia, Barnard, Fordham and Hunter right IN NYC. And within a roughly 2-hour drive you have Princeton, Yale, Penn, (and also Smith, Vassar, Bryn Mawr, Amherst, and Mt. Holyoke–the last 3 of which haven’t been mentioned but you might want to check them out). Fordham is a safety and Smith and Mt. Holyoke would be quasi-safeties.</p>

<p>There is a huge difference between being a two-hour drive away, and being a 4-hour drive away. A two-hour drive means you could even go home and back on the same day if you really wanted to.</p>

11

<p>Glad you’re cutting your list down. I spent all of my spring semester filling out apps and doing classwork. I literally wanted a loaded gun at least twice a day (read: “I applied to 15 schools”). It’s ironic that people think that more apps will provide them with more security, when in reality, it probably provides them with less, as it “thins out” the amount of care put in to each individual application (which in turn decreases the competitiveness of the applicant in each and every pool). In the current climate, its so much better to submit 5 applications at 100% effort than 10 at 80%. You’re likely to get more acceptances! As a side benefit, this forces you to really narrow your pool down to the schools that you are GENUINELY excited about.</p>

<p>My observations, gleaned from time at these places and conversations with friends of mine who have graduated from each school):</p>

<p>Harvard is not a place I would EVER want to be for undergrad. You’re on the bottom of the totem, and it’s a hyper-stressful, somewhat pretentious, and pretty competitive environment. </p>

<p>Hopkins is very much like Harvard, only much less impressive and in a MUCH less desirable area of the country.</p>

<p>Penn is huge, and also in a suspect part of a fairly dumpy city. Has world class med, dental, law and business schools. But again, I think the undergrads draw a much shorter stick here - unless you’re at Wharton… which has even gained recent criticism from top-tier business personnel for churning out overly-competitive business robots with poor social skills.</p>

<p>Georgetown has old facilities, it’s expensive (the aid sucks), and it’s lop-sided: the School of Foreign Service is at the top of its food chain, but the rest of the undergrad programs are less competitive and draw weaker students on the whole. However, SFS IS phenomenal, and Georgetown is one of the most prestigious schools in the country relative to its overall rank and contextual ease of admission. DC is also a very cool city, and you don’t need a car to get around, which makes it perhaps the only other city in the US besides NYC that you can accurately say that about. Also, the DC2NY buses are super nice, really cheap and even have Wi-Fi, which make the 4 hour trip the equivalent of a DVD and a few emails. </p>

<p>I agree, Tufts just did not strike me well. It felt like a boarding high school in a boring part of Boston. </p>

<p>Boston College is nice, but super homogeneous. I call it “Miami of Ohio East”, a.k.a “J. Crew U Number Two”. </p>

<p>Princeton is a great school, but the kids I know from their come off as both nerdy AND snotty.</p>

<p>Columbia is devoid of real college life, and I don’t think it is a great place to be an undergrad… also, an obviously expensive area in which to live. Friends have complained of social isolation - the result of small pockets of friends who clique off and disappear into the city.</p>

<p>NYU is expensive (the aid sucks), and it also suffers from a lack of real college life and community- without the connections and brilliant students that its neighbor enjoys. A poor man’s Columbia, unless you’re there for film, law, or a Masters in Business Administration. </p>

<p>I don’t know much about Cornell, but the town seems sleepy and it’s the size of a state school. It does have some strong programs (AES, hotel management, engineering). </p>

<p>Yale is right behind Stanford as is my favorite HYPSMC school. They draw the same caliber of student as Harvard and Princeton, but much more social, laid back and interesting, IMHO. </p>

<p>Brown is also a very cool institution that places a lot of focus on undergrads. The open curriculum is a massive plus, whether you want a VERY liberal course of study (“a little of this, a dash of that, maybe one of these…”) or a very angular one (“I know I want to be an expert, so I’m going to take EVERY single class that the __ department offers”).</p>

<p>Your LAC’s in particular are schools that I don’t have very much experience with. LAC’s in general are a different breed, though. Better classes, fewer social options. It’s a trade off you have to be willing to make.</p>

12

<p>I think this best depends on your major. If you eventually want to go to med school, Johns Hopkins should definitely be on your list. However, if you want more of a liberal arts education, probably not. Fordham, like you said, is a good choice, especially because I know a few people who have gotten full rides there…it would be especially comforting to know you’re financially secure as well if you were to apply EA.</p>

<p>When I visited NYU I was also a little disappointed in the campus or lackthereof; althought it’s in NY, it’s radically different from Columbia, which is on your for sure list. Also, I would trim Yale off because I think you can get the same basic experience from Harvard or Columbia, and somewhat from Brown. So, if I were to make your list, I suppose it would look something like this (but would vary on your major):</p>

<p>1) Wellesley College</p>

<p>2) Columbia University</p>

<p>3) Harvard University</p>

<p>4) Barnard College</p>

<p>5) Macaulay Honors - Hunter</p>

<p>6) Brown University</p>

<p>7) Fordham</p>

<p>8) Cornell</p>

<p>9) UPenn</p>

<p>10) Georgetown</p>

<p>However, with this, I would advise you replace two of the choices above with another safety or at least higher matches to diversify your list.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

13

<p>do you happen to have an intended major? or a broad field? that would help the most. </p>

<p>if ur gpa is 3.8 uw+ and sats 2200+ i see no reason to drop a lot of these.</p>

<p>i would drop fordham and barnard</p>

14

<p>Macaulay Honors is a safety. JHU is not necessarily cutthroat, but neither is it particularly nurturing. The students I know there don’t WANT to be nurtured and cozy. Same goes for Harvard.</p>

<p>My recommendation:</p>

<p>1) Wellesley College
2) Columbia University
3) Harvard University - make sure you’re OK with the atmosphere
4) Barnard College
5) Macaulay Honors - Hunter
6) Brown University</p>

<p>7) Fordham - strong safety (esp. with EA notification) in NYC
8) Georgetown - only if you’re committed to SFS, and OK with the distance from home
9) Cornell - Drop. Difficult to get home to NYC.
10) Princeton - look into eating clubs and atmosphere
11) Yale - seems like the best of HYP for you, IMHO.
12) University of Pennsylvania - any particular reason why you like it?
13) NYU - Drop. Don’t let your parents pressure you when you obviously dislike it.
14) Johns Hopkins University - Drop, unless you’re OK with the atmosphere</p>

<p>Harvard and JHU, especially, are known for independent and driven student bodies.</p>

15

<p>

</p>

<p>While I agree that the OP should drop Hopkins,* Baltimore is not further away from New York than DC! </p>

<p>*OP, it you’re wondering why I think this: as others have said, it may not be AS cut throat as it’s reputation, it is not as nurturing or undergrad focused as many of you other options, it is farther away than necessary for a school that is not a very top choice, and it’s another reach-y school on a list that could use more matches/safeties.</p>

<p>I also agree that you should drop NYU (you don’t like it and have other NY schools on your list), and Cornell (hard to get home, and also much larger and I think a bit less undergrad focused than your top choices).</p>

16

<p>A lot of people seem to think it’s difficult to get from Cornell to NYC? I’ve never been to the college, but I’ve been to the area several times…and I think driving back and forth is a lot less of a burden then flying a plane to another state…</p>

17

<p>Probably the last thing you want to do is ADD schools, but have you considered Haverford or Bryn Mawr? Their honor codes, which are NOT just wallpaper, are taken to mean that grade-grubbing is not allowed. That atmosphere might appeal to you - worth a look.</p>

18

<p>

It’s a matter of comparative difficulty. When much closer/easier options like Princeton, Yale, and/or Penn are on the table, Cornell is difficult to justify.</p>

<p>

The average SAT was 1400 (2100) last year, and the average GPA is 3.7. Although the acceptance rate is reasonably high, I would hesitate to call that a safety without knowing the OP’s stats.</p>

19

<p>“It’s a matter of comparative difficulty. When much closer/easier options like Princeton, Yale, and/or Penn are on the table, Cornell is difficult to justify”.</p>

<p>Exactly…I think one reason this thread has gotten so many posts so quickly is due to the OP’s relatively unusual criteria that the closer to home, the better for the school. This is so much more tangible than “a place with a lively social scene” or the other typical criteria from folks looking to pare down their lists.</p>

<p>If I may sum up some of the things some likeminded folks and I seem to be saying: As a resident of NYC, the OP is in the epicenter of Eastern academia…about half of the top schools in the country are within roughly 250 miles to the northeast, north, west, and south. The OP origianlly picked a lot of the usual suspects, but upon further observation, some of them have come up lacking (NYU has no campus, Cornell is tough to get to, Hopkins is not especially nurturing, etc.). And some new options have been mentioned: Smith, Mt. Holyoke, Amherst, Bryn Mawr, Vassar, and Haverford.</p>

<p>That leaves:</p>

<p>IN NYC: Columbia, Barnard, Fordham, Queens</p>

<p>Roughly 1.5 hours or less: Princeton, Penn, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, Yale, Vassar</p>

<p>Roughly 2-2.5 hours: Smith, Mt Holyoke, Amherst,</p>

<p>Roughly more than 3 hours: Brown, Harvard, Wellesley, Georgetown. Might want to add Clark U in Mass. as a safety.
(All of these times are rough estimates…correct me if I’m wrong.)</p>

<p>Each of these schools looks like a great place to spend 4 years to me. The key variables to pare down further would seem to be (1)the scale of each college’s international relations offerings–which range from very prominent department to fairly obscure minor, and (2)the ease of transportation to/from NYC, both public and by car.</p>

20

<p>^^ I assumed if the OP was looking at the Ivies, she would be competitive for them statistically. But that’s not necessarily true, of course. Does Hunter practice “quirky” holistic admissions? (Reed, for example, considers stats only 20% of the total subjective rating.)</p>