Hi all,
To start, I’m an elite level athlete in a popular Olympic sport for which colleges offer scholarships (outside of the Ivy League, of course.) I plan on continuing my sport in college and my parents expect me to chose a top academic university. While my stats are ok, 3.7-ish GPA in all honors and 31 ACT, they are not at the level of your average student at the Ivies or Stanford. I’ve read on this website that outside of football, recruited athletes need to be at the academic level of their non-athlete peers. On almost every forum about athletic recruiting on this site, people talk about how admissions has the final say and how they know someone who was recruited but got rejected. While I understand that this is true, I haven’t found it to be true that athletes need to have the same stats as their peers and I’ve never heard a definite example of an recruit getting a likely letter yet being rejected. Both of my older siblings are athletes in arguably less popular sports and compete at Yale and Dartmouth, respectively. Neither of them were top recruits by any means but were admitted with GPAs a few tenths lower than mine and similar test scores.
Can someone clear up the truth about recruiting at elite schools? I dream of attending Stanford but reading posts on this website has made me worried that my stats won’t be good enough no matter how highly I rank athletically. Surely if an athlete’s academics are acceptable for Ivy schools they would be acceptable for Stanford? My understanding is that while admissions gets the “final say” on acceptance, in reality it is merely a formality and if a coach wants a recruit, they get the recruit.
I appreciate any responses I get regarding this crazy world of athletic recruiting. Thank y’all so much for any insight that you may have to offer!!
My daughter was on a team at an Ivy (she has since quit her sport but that is another story). One of her teammates was accepted with a 4.1 weighted GPA (3.7 unweighted) and a 32 ACT. The coach had said they want to see a minimum of a 30 on the ACT. On the other hand, my nephew with a 4.24 weighted GPA (3.9 unweighted) and a SAT was recruited and really thought he would be offered a spot at Washington and Lee based on communication with the coach, but he was ultimately waitlisted. Washington and Lee is Division III, however, so I don’t think their coaches have as much pull. As for Stanford, when my daughter did a club sport, one of the girls was recruited heavily by Stanford and took the SAT three times to get to the score they wanted 1800/2400).
In my experience a 30 ACT would be too low for most ivies and Stanford. Perhaps it depends on the sport. Admissions has the final say. I’ve seen plenty of recruited athletes go onOVs but not be offered a likely letter after the final admissions review. Your best bet is to email the Stanford coach asking for specific benchmarks to your sport.
Good luck!
Recruitment to an Ivy with a sub-30 ACT is certainly achievable, and very likely at 30-31. That said, achieving the same results at a NESCAC school is unlikely below a 31 ACT, with many looking for recruits at 32-34 unless they have other hooks.
Since you have the unusual advantage of detailed knowledge about your two siblings already playing in the Ivies, I would go more on their experiences than what you might hear from people speaking in general terms.
For the Ivies, you can find AI calculators at Tier One Athletics and elsewhere, For HYP, the average athletic recruit is probably somewhere around 210, with some below (especially top recruits in priority sports) and some above. The numbers are slightly lower at the other five Ivies. Stanford has more latitude at a school level if it really wants a particular recruit, as it’s not constrained by conference regulations on athletic recruit academics the same way the Ivies are.
I agree that it’s almost unheard of for someone with a likely letter to not be admitted. I think that would take some kind of ethical or legal issue or a big drop off in academics. The Ivies and Stanford both have pre-reads from admissions and can issue likely letters ahead of regular admissions decisions. The Ivies have conference rules on when they can issue likely letters.
It’s not like coaches can get anyone they want in, but coaches should have a good sense of what it’s likely to take and focus their recruiting accordingly.
Stanford wants a minimum of a 30 ACT.
That may be a reasonable rule of thumb, but 12.5% of Stanford students have ACT composites below 30 in the most recent Common Data Set, so there are exceptions. Not saying all of those 12.5% are athletic recruits, of course.
Stanford coaches know what is needed for their sport; they work closely with admissions. If you are Olympic level and they want you, they will tell you what you are going to need to do to make the cut. FWIW, I know kids who were told to go look elsewhere. There is no single hard and fast rule. Even when you look at ACT scores, you will need context. A lower score might be tolerated by a foreign athlete who is a math whiz but not yet great in English. You will need to have the conversation with the coach.
Remember too that athletes are expected to do well academically in spite of huge time commitments to their sport, so the bar is set where it is to ensure kids are not being set up to fail.
Thank you @gardenstategal !! Do you know whether test scores are valued more than GPA? My UW GPA of 3.7 is very good for my nationally ranked public school - normally only the valedictorian graduates with a 4.0 - but when I look at the Stanford admission statistics found here: http://admission.stanford.edu/basics/selection/profile.html I see that 75% of the freshman class has a GPA of 4.0 or higher. At my high school it is impossible to have an UW GPA of more than 4.0 because an A and an A+ are both considered 4.0. Do you know if Stanford admissions will take this into consideration? I believe that I will be able to score much higher on the ACT since I’ve only taken it once and I tend to be a good tester. On the other hand, GPA is a much more difficult stat to raise. Would a higher test score alleviate pressure to raise my GPA or are the two stats unrelated when admissions is taking a look? My school doesn’t have great track record with Stanford either… looking on Naviance it appears that only one student has gone out to Palo Alto in the last 5 years. Do you think this will affect admissions’ view on me, even if I am a recruited athlete?
Thank you for any insight that you have!!
Thank you @melvin123 !! Would you happen to know what they look for in terms of GPA? And do you know if higher test scores can compensate for a more pedestrian GPA? What matters more in recruiting, GPA or standardized tests? Thank you so much if you have any knowledge regarding my questions!
Well I do know two athletes going to Princeton with a 1700 and 1750 respectively. However they had other hooks as well. But it’s quite obvious that being recruited is arguably the largest and most advantageous hook there is( maybe next to being NAmerican).
S1, also an athlete looking to play in college, got a 30 ACT 1st time as a sophomore, a 31 the 2nd, and finally a 33 Junior year. He also goes to a nationally ranked large public, and has a 3.65 UW GPA while taking a rigorous course load (12 AP’s). I would suggest you take the ACT at least once more to make the best case possible for your admission, and also take, if not the SAT 2, then at least some SAT subject tests this summer. Make a 31 ACT (which is more than likely good enough, but…) a non issue by getting a 32-34.
Having said all that, the most important thing to focus on this summer is your personal development as an athlete. School is over, though testing can continue during the summer. Eat right, train, and do your best at your sport. At this point, your GPA is out of your control. So is what an admissions office or coach might think.
@bluewater2015 Thank you for your advice! It is nice having older siblings who have been through the process, but neither of them looked at Stanford which is why I ask about that specific process. I’ve also heard that Stanford holds athletes to higher academic standards than the Ivy League schools despite the fact that they do not have the Academic Index. Do you have any knowledge on the academic expectations at Ivys compared to at Stanford? Thanks!
Admissions offices know the difference between different schools so don’t sweat the GPA if it’s good for your school and you’ve taken rigorous classes.
What I was saying above is that as an athlete, the coach of your sport can be the most informative about what will be needed as a recruit. That’s your best bet in terms of info. Some of the most famous Stanford football players, now NFL stars, we’re high school valedictorians. The coaches know that in many cases, they can find great players without having to beg admissions to make exceptions for them.
To that end, your best bet is to get your stats as high as you can (work on ACT) and do as well as you can in your sport so you’re as well positioned as possible. And look at other schools as well. It’s never great to be locked into one option until you know the feeling is mutual.
@FutureCollegeAthlete I really doubt that Stanford has higher academic standards for athletes than the Ivies, considering that in some sports (such as football) Stanford is also recruiting higher level athletes. If anything academic standards for athletes might be a bit lower at Stanford, or at least with more flexibility to take some top recruits with relatively low academics. Not low in an absolute sense, but low relative to the average student at the school.
Stanford can do what it wants, as it is not constrained by Pac 12 academic rules to any significant extent (in fact, some Pac 12 schools will take athletes at the NCAA minimums, though not Stanford, obviously). Ivies are bound by the AI rules at a conference level so have less flexibility at an individual school level.
As one data point, that 12.5% with <30 ACT scores at Stanford that I mentioned earlier - the comparable number at Princeton is 8%, and 10% at Harvard. So Stanford has a few more of these students - still a small percentage, but a few more. That’s consistent with a bit more flexibility for athletic recruits, though of course not all of these students are athletic recruits.
https://registrar.princeton.edu/university_enrollment_sta/CDS_2016-2017.pdf
https://oir.harvard.edu/files/huoir/files/harvard_cds_2014-15.pdf
@FutureCollegeAthlete there’s been good advice for you so far. I know of at least a few Stanford athletes with lower gpa and act than yours, so I don’t think you need to worry much about what the lowest possible is. That’s anecdotal though, so ask the coach directly if you are concerned about this. I think how badly the coach wants you will be the biggest driver at Stanford.
Yes your in the running with your scores and GPA, but does the Stanford coach in your sport want you? If they do you should be qualified to go and they will let you know that. Nobody here can answer your question, it must be the Stanford coach in your sport that answers it.
@politeperson thank you! Which sports do these athletes that you know compete in, revenue or non-revenue? Also are they male or female? I’ve been told that female recruits are held to higher standards but I haven’t actually heard of any evidence supporting this. Due to NCAA rules in my sport, I can’t yet talk to the coach, but will be able to this summer. I’m currently very highly ranked nationally and my current coach is very reputable in the recruiting world, so I’m hoping that Stanford will recruit me. I started this thread just to see if I’m academically capable enough to be considered as a potential recruit. Thanks again!
CU123 absolutely, to me that’s the real question. The number of potential recruits who can meet the academic standards is far larger than the number the coach will want. Just like admission to these kinds of schools in general if we substitute “admissions committee” for “coach”.
@FutureCollegeAthlete ^^ non revenue. I’d be pretty surprised if standards were higher for women, although overall averages may be higher for women. Again, I don’t think you are close enough to any such minimum academic threshold to worry about it.