<p>Could use some advice. My son is a senior who is trying to decide between Dartmouth early decision and Yale early action. Both schools have a lot of what he is looking for (math, science, engineering). He really likes the engineering program at Dartmouth but also likes the residential colleges at Yale. We have a sense that, with the Ivies, your best shot at getting in is with the better odds of applying early, so the school you pick for your early choice may be the Ivy you get into. Anyone have a sense of which of the two schools he might have a better shot at? He is presently ranked first in his class, GPA 97.65; SATs 800 math, 710 critical reading, 750 writing; SAT IIs 750 math2 and 780 chemistry, all 5s on his 6 AP classes (World, US, Calculus AB, Calculus BC, Chemistry, English Lang), he has 5 AP classes this year including AP Bio and AP Physics. His extracurriculars are Rowing, summer science programs, local community service, camp counselor, film studies year round at a film class (he writes screenplays and directs), National Honor Society, Math Honor Society, Foreign Language Honor Society, Science Honor Society, National Achievement Scholarship semifinalist.</p>
<p>Early Decision at Dartmouth will probably increase his chances to some degree, but SCEA at Yale will not</p>
<p>I sent you a PM.</p>
<p>Is he going out for crew? He should absolutely consider it. That would give more assurance than anything else.</p>
<p>Without being recruited for crew, both are major reaches with a 710 CR, considerably below median at both. Neither will give an unhooked student enough of a boost to apply early rather than waiting for a higher score and applying RD. It’s so competitive at both today that a key score under median will knock a kid from a well represented state, even a val, out of the running.</p>
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<p>OPs S is a National Achievement semi.</p>
<p>Ohhh…good shot at any school.</p>
<p>^^My thought exactly ;).</p>
<p>Bear with me, I am new at this- I don’t understand the difference that the National Achievement semi makes. Does being African American make that much of a difference? As competitive as these college applications are today, I didn’t think it would make a difference. We have assumed the hook for him is that he is such a math and science guy, and that given that, we didn’t figure the 710 in CR was a problem especially since he scored 800 in the math portion. Also, he finished Calculus AB as a sophomore, took Calculus BC as a junior and that exhausted his school’s math curriculum. For a math/science student interested in engineering, would the 710 CR really be that much of a drawback?</p>
<p>In all honesty, if he was not a AA candidate, it would be a big drawback. 75th percentile scores, where an applicant without a hook wants to be, are 790CR at Yale and 770 at Dartmouth. Your son is an exceptionally high scorer among AA students.</p>
<p>These top schools want, and get, it all.</p>
<p>Your son should feel free to truly go for his top choice.</p>
<p>Thank-you for the feedback. This is truly food for thought.</p>
<p>"OPs S is a National Achievement semi. "</p>
<p>"Ohhh…good shot at any school. "</p>
<p>Is he from a low income family? Is he the first one going to college from his family?</p>
<p>I guess it does not matter.</p>
<p>African-American with 2260…it doesn’t matter what the income or the parents’ education status is–he’s good to go. However, if he was recruited to row, that would be the frosting on the cake.</p>
<p>“trying to decide between Dartmouth early decision and Yale early action”</p>
<p>Therefore he should not do ED, since Dartmouth is not his dream school. It’s loooong time from November to September, plenty of time to change his mind about committing to a school he doesn’t love. He should give himself six more months to decide by applying RD instead.</p>
<p>Only do Dartmouth ED if he’s 100% sure that he wants to go there. There’s a good chance that he would get in regular decision anyway.</p>
<p>I would agree that unless Dartmouth is his 1st choice, without any doubt, don’t apply ED.</p>
<p>He’s not sure. I would say his top two choices are Dartmouth and Yale and he would be thrilled to be accepted at either one. He would be fine if he got into Dartmouth early and is now bound to go there (though my concerns have to do with financial aid if you apply early). They are very different schools but he has found something he loves about each (Dartmouth’s approach to engineering as well as their film studies program and the ability to major in both; Yale’s residential college system, similar film studies program, though not as production oriented, and fantastic engineering program as well as the overall campus). His fear is applying early to one and not getting in and now killing his chances with the other so we have tried to figure out is there an advantage of one over the other as an early applicant. It sounds like you are saying that since he is African American with his grades, etc., that this might give him enough of a hook to probably get in on regular decision. But is not applying early anywhere a big gamble?</p>
<p>“though my concerns have to do with financial aid if you apply early”</p>
<p>Yes, you give up the ability to compare FA offers, and you would have to simply decide if Darthmouth’s offer was adequate or not. Dartmouth guarantees to meet 100% of each student’s demonstrated need for each of their four years of undergraduate study, but some famillies’ finances don’t result in affordable offers for various reasons, so it’s possible that you might have to turn it down and apply RD elsewhere.</p>
<p>“But is not applying early anywhere a big gamble?”</p>
<p>The question is usually asked the other way around, especially at Ivies: Does applying early help much? :)</p>
<p>The acceptance rates that colleges put online strongly indicate an advantage for early decision acceptance. I believe at Dartmouth, it’s almost doubled. Are you saying this is not really true?</p>
<p>It’s misleading. The two pools of applicants are quite different; the ED pool on average has higher stats and is a better fit for a school than the RD pool. ED applicants do a better job, on average, of targeting schools that are a good fit. But the lower the school’s popularity, the more real advantage applying ED confers (i.e., when applying ED is not because a school is very popular).</p>