<p>I think your son has an incredibly strong RD shot at Dartmouth (and Yale). I think in this case it might be worth the EA at Yale. I think it will give him the most potential options overall.</p>
<p>I agree with the others–SCEA isn’t binding. By the way, there’s another thread on here somewhere about engineering at the Ivies; you might want to read that, too.</p>
<p>He will almost certainly get into both schools. A valedictorian URM with a 2260 SAT, good extracurriculars and no glaring weakness is an automatic admit at essentially every school in America.</p>
<p>In short: Definitely do not apply to any ED programs unless he is absolutely sure it is his first choice.</p>
<p>A 710 CR is not “considerably below median” at Darmouth. The middle 50% range is a 660 to 770 in the CR section, which puts this applicant somewhere in the middle. It’s not considerably below for Yale, either - although it is lower; at Yale the range is 700 to 800, so while he’s in the range he’s near the edges of it.</p>
<p>The wisdom that you have to be in the 75th percentile if you don’t have a book is misguided because that would mean 75% of Dartmouth or Yale accepted students are “hooked” in some way, which doesn’t make sense. Only 23% of Dartmouth’s student body are underrepresented minority group members, and that figure is 19% at Yale. Even including recruited athletes and legacies there’s no way that number jumps to 75%. If he’s in the middle 50% then he has relatively good chances of getting accepted (I mean as good as it gets for schools that are reaches for everyone).</p>
<p>Considering what they know about yields, selective schools admit more students in the top 50% of stats than in the bottom 50%, because fewer students in the top 50% matriculate than in the bottom 50% (those in the top 50% that don’t matriculate tend to choose another school with higher stats; they choose to attend, in their view, the best school they got into, one where their stats are more likely to be in the lower 50%).</p>
<p>It’s this issue with yield that leads to the “75%” wisdom.</p>
<p>Thanks for sending me the link to the posts on engineering and the Ivies. there weren’t many good things said about engineering at Yale or at Dartmouth. Very interesting. Need to go back and look some more at other schools for engineering. And there’s no question now that he won’t apply ED anywhere; we want to be able to compare all the financial aid packages when they come in. Might go with the EA at Yale, though. Can’t thank you all enough for all your help!</p>
<p>While Y and D are fantastic schools, they are not known for Engineering. Plus, if your S wants a BSE, he’ll have to hang out in Hanover for a fifth year (which is covered by finaid, btw).</p>
<p>Also look at Stanford for Engineering.</p>
<p>For a few hundred applicants, Dartmouth sends out “likely letters” in late February/early March, which is essentially a guarantee of admission on April 1. Needless to say it is quite comforting to get one of these letters. Not getting one doesn’t doesn’t mean you’re screwed. It just means you have to wait until April 1 for a decision.</p>
<p>vossron said:
</p>
<p>But wait, there’s more!</p>
<p>The published 75% numbers are for matriculating applicants, not for admitted applicants. The 75% level for admitted applicants is generally 10-20 points higher than for matriculating applicants. Thus for admitted students the published 75% level is actually closer to the 65% or 70% level. This serves to strengthen the 75% wisdom.</p>
<p>See page 3 of this document: <a href=“http://www.dartmouth.edu/~oir/pdfs/Admissions.pdf[/url]”>This Page Has Moved;
<p>There are also some helpful numbers for prospective Dartmouth applicants here: [Testing</a> Statistics](<a href=“http://www.dartmouth.edu/admissions/facts/test-stats.html]Testing”>http://www.dartmouth.edu/admissions/facts/test-stats.html)
Notice that only 25% of applicants scoring 800 in math are admitted.</p>
<p>HSseniorparent -Dartmouth or Yale engineering are a huge feeder into finance and venture capital jobs. Harvard, Duke, and Columbia also rank low in engineering. The reality is if you want to go into more lucrative areas after college the Ivy ticket is much more important than engineering rank. The unfortunate reality is that most engineering jobs top out at 150-200K per year, whereas in the other areas that is just the beginning.</p>
<p>If he wants to be an actual engineer I would suggest Stanford, MIT, Cornell, and Princeton as well. Those also are great feeders into VC, consulting, and finance jobs so you have both options just in case he changes his mind.</p>
<p>Also Caltech and Harvey Mudd, the number one and two schools for feeding into engineering PhD programs.</p>
<p>Given that he is an African American male with those stats and ECs, I would definitely apply to Yale SCEA and Dartmouth RD. He has an excellent chance of getting into Yale in the early round–which will improve his chances somewhat–and of course it is non-binding. He has an excellent chance of getting into D in the RD round. </p>
<p>slipper1234’s advice is well-taken, also.</p>
<p>An extremely smart and accomplished African-American student who wants to study engineering?</p>
<p>Talk about a hook. Who wouldn’t admit this kid?</p>
<p>thanks! We live in the Northeast and he doesn’t want to go so far from home as to Stanford or Harvey Mudd, but we should probably take a closer look at Cornell. I have heard that the engineering at Princeton is very tied to finance, which he is not the least bit interested in. And who knows if he’ll even stay with engineering! He has loved chemistry and physics and has also thought of research science. I feel like our goal is to make sure he picks a school that will have all these options available to him. And to get him the best FA package we can.</p>