<p>Hey guys!
I'm an admitted student to UoR, and I am going to attempt the pre-med track. However, I am trying to decide between UoR and UC Irvine. I am from California, and I received a $11,000 per year scholarship today from UoR - thank you for that generous award...very honored and surprised to have received so much. Despite this award, and perhaps some need-based aid later, I am trying to find out if UoR is that much better than UCI to pay more, live farther away from home, and not live in the almost ideal climate of California. I would, of course, prefer to go to a private university, but do you guys think UoR's strong pre-med program and undergraduate environment outweighs the cost, weather, and location? Was anyone in a similar situation who ended up picking UoR? If yes, why did you end up picking UoR?
Thanks so much!
-Sharks911</p>
<p>If you are seriously thinking about attending medical school, you want to minimize your undergrad debt as much as possible. </p>
<p>What is the cost differential between UR and UCI? Who will be paying–you or your parents? Will you be taking out loans in excess of the Stafford limits?</p>
<p>Other considerations–how impacted are pre med classes at UCI? Will it take you a 5th year to get all your necessary/required classes for your major? (D2 has a friend at UCD who had several classes canceled over the past 3 years and is having real issues getting some of her required major classes for the next quarter.)</p>
<p>If the cost differential are minimal, then I’d say go where you feel you can thrive. </p>
<p>Both schools will offer you an education that will prepare you to take the MCAT.</p>
<p>BTW, travel between ROC and the West is a PITA. ROC is relatively small airport so tickets during heavy travel periods (Thanksgiving, Christmas) are more expensive than you’d might think.</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice!
I will not be taking any loans, and my parents are paying. After the merit, the difference is still significant…~15,000. Of course, UCI is a public university that is strong in pre-med, and I may need a 5th year to graduate. I have a feeling UoR might prepare me for MCAT slightly better however, and the resources to have good ECs at UoR might be better…due to the Medical Center and all the opportunities there. </p>
<p>Big thank you for the heads up about the travel and prices.
I will make sure to keep that in mind :]
-Sharks911</p>
<p>No school prepares you for the MCAT. YOU prepare you for the MCAT.</p>
<p>Having Strong across the street from River campus does make volunteering very easy to do. But that alone isn’t a good enough reason to go to UR.</p>
<p>Ask your parents if you go to UCI if they will kick in the $$ they save on your undergrad education toward your medical school tuition.</p>
<p>(BTW, unless you get into one of the CA pubic med schools–which are horrendously competitive for CA residents–you’ll likely be attending a private med school or an OOS one. Which run about $75,000/yr. Most private med schools will want parental financial data until you’re 30 and will expect a parental contribution toward your COA.)</p>
<p>Sharks, I’m in the same predicament! Well, picking between Irvine and Rochester!
Although I have Bennington in the same boat, ahaha. But I’ve been looking up stuff online and I’m REAAAALLY starting to like Rochester (:</p>
<p>@ WayOutWestMom - I mean, if you get a better education at UoR, wouldn’t that help you in your preparation for the MCAT? Also, UoR has all the major advantages of a private university such as smaller classes, more private attention, etc. As for the hospital, I heard med schools want ~1,000 volunteering hours, so ya that helps! 
Once again, thanks a bunch for the med school info. </p>
<p>@ cbeckett - I am liking UoR a lot more too…that personalized admit letter, private university feel, fantastic med school and hospital, and the 11,000 merit make it very appealing. :D</p>
<p>Agreed! I just got my aid from Irvine this morning… yeah, not paying 19,000 a year. </p>
<p>Dudeeee, yes! That personalized letter was AMAZING! Not going to lie, I had to read it a couple of times to notice that, because I figured they were all generic… but lkasdjfl, I’m so excited, I hope the aid is good so I can just say yes already! :]</p>
<p>Rochester sounds good.
I really loved Rochester’s personalised letter, makes ya feel special :)</p>
<p>MCAT-- most pre meds spend 1-4 months preparing for the exam. Hundreds of hours prepping. There is a moderate to strong correlation between how thoroughly you prepare and how well you do. There is also a mild to moderate correlation between how well you did on the ACT (but not the SAT) and how well you’ll do on the MCAT. MCAT is not a test of knowledge. You can’t memorize facts, and do well on it. MCAT tests your scientific reasoning skills and assumes you have a fundamental knowledge of certain sciences. And there is 1 section of the MCAT–verbal skills–that college coursework will not prepare you for at all. Also the writing section of MCAT is not the kind of writing that college comp classes prepare you for. (Well, that’s assuming you can write a competent English sentence and a well formed paragraph before you get to college.)</p>
<p>Science classes at UR are not “small.” They follow the typical pattern of instruction in sciences–large lectures with small recitation groups. For example, there are currently 230 students in D2’s Biochem class. There were over 250 in her OChem class and over 300 in her gen chem class. Over 220 in her Into to Bio section for students who had a 5 on their AP bio. Genetics, ecology and neurochem have all been moderately large classes—typically 70-120 students. And you will have undergrad or grad students as TAs for recitations and lab at UR–just like you will at UCI and nearly everywhere else. </p>
<p>Med schools expect significant amounts of shadowing and medical volunteering, but 1000 is on the high side. More usual is around 200-300 hours. Plus at least an equal amount of community service.</p>
<p>Are there advantages of going to UR for pre med? Yes, but the reasons are not the ones you’re giving.</p>
<p>BTW, I have one D in med school–and she went to our state U and she had nearly the identical opportunities her sister at UR has had. She just had to work a bit harder and be more flexible to find them.</p>
<p>@ WayOutWestMom - Thanks again for the information about the MCAT…I did take the ACT and got a 31 (32 superscored), so hopefully that’s not bad? About the science classes, compared to UCI where classes average about 450 (that’s everything, i’m assuming science classes push 600…), that’s not bad at all. The TA part is understandable. Also, I heard from several people about the 1,000 hour part. (maybe that was community service + medical volunteering?) About your other D having to be more flexible to find opportunities and having to work harder for them, that would be an advantage for UR, wouldn’t it? Also, you mention my reasons aren’t the reasons why pre-med at UR is better…then could you give me your reasons why pre-med is better at UR? Thanks a bunch!</p>
<p>One thing that comes up with TA’s is that UR is small enough and apparently collegial enough that kids know the better TA’s - which may simply mean the ones they personally get along with - and so they share information. I think there is an advantage to being a university but not a large one.</p>
<p>The thing about med schools is that they are looking for someone who stands out and is not a “cookie cutter” or “check off the list” pre med. Just like during the college admissions process, you need something on your resume to distinguish yourself from everyone else. And that something needs to be more than grades and MCAT scores. Those will only get you past the gatekeeper; it won’t get you admitted. There are lots of ways to do this. D1 found her own way of doing that; D2 is doing something entirely different.</p>
<p>The point is it’s YOU and not where you go to school that makes you a desirable candidate for med school admission.</p>
<p>But to answer your question: Why is UR a good school for pre med? </p>
<p>There is a wide variety of research going on at UR and the University has one of the highest (if not the highest) level funding for biomedical research for a university of its size in the US. This allows students who are inclined towards research to get involved in it early on. </p>
<p>There are fewer students competing for research lab slots than at bigger universities.</p>
<p>UR is one of very few research universities in the nation that has funds which the university uses to support independent undergrad research. IOW, UR will fund some exceptional undergrads so they can set up and run an independent research project. I can only think of handful of other schools which do that.</p>
<p>The closeness in location and common administration of River Campus and the med school allow profs associated with Strong Hospital and the medical school to crossover and teach upper level science classes at River campus. D2 had medical school prof for neuropsych. (However, D1 at state U had the same situation. Her A&P prof also taught the med students A&P. But I do realize this is not a commonplace event at most colleges and universities.) </p>
<p>Since UR is smaller, students may have an easier time getting to know professors who will later be asked to write the all important LORs for medical school.</p>
<p>Pre med advising at UR is better than at most larger schools. (UCB, in particular, and several of the other UCs are known to have especially poor pre med advising.)</p>
<p>Thanks again for answering my question and for the other information as well. I will definitely take your feedback into consideration as I make my final decision. Thanks so much again!
-Sharks911</p>
<p>I’d say this a little differently, without really disagreeing. </p>
<p>My take is that med schools say they want a well rounded type but that isn’t all that true. They are, on the whole, much more open now to people applying later in life, meaning from a few years out of undergrad to quite a bit later. I’d say these tend to be more “well rounded” candidates because of life experience. But that also means you don’t have to plan on a strict pre-med choice with no options other than do the 4 years, do the MCAT and apply. This is a growing phenomenon in grad schools. It seems to have started in B schools where top schools were long ago bluntly looking for people with work experience and now applies to a bunch of disciplines like economics. It may also be a response to cost because you can work, save and then go to school. </p>
<p>I’d say a big goal of med admissions is to try to cut out weird people. My dad, who used to do med admissions - long, long time ago, when dinosaurs roamed the earth - said the basic question was “why do you want to be a doctor” and the answer had best be a variation on “I want to serve humanity / help the sick.” He was amazed at how many people did not answer that correctly. With the rise of MD’s devoted to research, this question’s role has changed but it still matters - and is why you should see community service, etc. more than as a box to tick off. They want you to explore what you enjoy and feel because that equals commitment. </p>
<p>As for UR, I agree with WOWM: UR is a small university but a real university, meaning one which attracts loads of externally funded research dollars. There aren’t many schools like that - and a big number of them are Ivies (meaning that size and real funding). It thus has very good research going on, good grad students, and more opportunities. Every place talks about the research but UR has it. A small school says it’s easy to get into a role and a big school points at the volume while UR is basically both. </p>
<p>With regards to advising, UR is managing a relatively small student pool in a significant research university. (This is true in non-science fields too.) I think that affects the quality of advising or at least the perceived quality.</p>
<p>To be blunt, beyond that, beyond what you say, beyond how you act in an interview, medical schools are just guessing. Admissions is like hiring and I can say with some authority that hiring is a big guess no matter how many tests and hurdles you erect.</p>
<p>^^Agree about the trend towards older applicants at med schools. The median age of a first year med student is now 25 and rising. (Including D1 who is a M1 at age 25.) </p>
<p>Med schools like the maturity and the broader world view that a few years of ‘real world’ life experience brings.</p>