Tufts v Wellesley v Michigan

<p>Congratulations Macbeatlebaby, and welcome to the Tufts family! </p>

<p>Your daughter made a great decision! </p>

<p>I am a really old (according to my kids) Tufts engineering alum with a daughter currently enrolled at Tufts. </p>

<p>I live locally and have friends who are employed at several of the local universities including one at Harvard Medical School. He has served on the admissions committee. He was effusive in his praise of Tufts’ pre-med program when the subject came up in the context of his son’s college decision process. Be aware that one reason that the Tufts’ pre-med program is so highly regarded is that it is very challenging. Another is it’s access to research and internships. </p>

<p>Just to clarify a potential concern, the idea that a liberal arts college has better access to research than a university that is ranked in the top 50 worldwide for clinical health does not make sense to me. Especially when one looks at the data behind the ranking that shows that the research citation rate (a quality metric) is comparable to the very top research universities (i.e. Harvard ).</p>

<p>[Top</a> 50 clinical, pre-clinical and health universities - Times Higher Education](<a href=“http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2012-13/subject-ranking/subject/clinical-pre-clinical-health]Top”>Subject Ranking 2012-13: Clinical, Pre-clinical & Health | Times Higher Education (THE))</p>

<p>Note that Tufts students also have access to opportunities at both MIT/Harvard research labs and hospitals as well as all of the opportunities afforded by the surrounding biotech community. </p>

<p>One key difference is that Tufts is 4 miles from MIT and accessible via public transportation and Wellesley is 14 miles from MIT and accessible by a Wellesley College bus that runs much less frequently and is subject to Boston commuter traffic.</p>

<p>Tufts also has the benefit of local engineering laboratories, including a tissue engineering lab that is shared with MIT and Harvard.</p>

<p>[HST</a> Research Centers and Collaborations | Harvard-MIT Health Sciences and Technology](<a href=“http://hst.mit.edu/research/centers-collaborations]HST”>http://hst.mit.edu/research/centers-collaborations)</p>

<p>Note that the piece of data that OldScarecrow provided to support his opinion is both outdated and has been critiqued in other forums for having a number of logical flaws (which Hebrewhammer pointed out). </p>

<p>Wellesley is an excellent school. Tufts was lucky enough to be able lure away one of their top scholar/administrators. She spoke at “accepted student’s day” for my daughter’s class. I really liked her. She is a great person to get to know. Here is an interview which gives some insights into the differences in culture between the two schools and her experiences with research at Tufts.</p>

<p>[Joanne</a> Berger-Sweeney: The Way Forward for Arts and Sciences | Tufts Now](<a href=“http://now.tufts.edu/articles/way-forward-arts-and-sciences]Joanne”>http://now.tufts.edu/articles/way-forward-arts-and-sciences)</p>

<p>The nutrition institute at Tufts that Dr. Sweeney is referring to is one of the best in the world. Tufts was awarded the new US government nutrition research lab over Harvard back in the 80’s, which caused quite a stir in the local academic community. I highly recommend your daughter take advantage of this resource should she choose to pursue medicine. The nutrition courses at Tufts are also top notch and both relevant and popular for non-premeds. </p>

<p>[Ranking</a> of Nutrition Graduate Schools — PhDs.org Graduate School Guide](<a href=“http://graduate-school.phds.org/rankings/nutrition/rank/basic]Ranking”>http://graduate-school.phds.org/rankings/nutrition/rank/basic)</p>

<p>The engineering professor Dr. Sweeney is referring to is a great person to get to know, as she is a nationally recognized pioneer in making engineering/science more accessible for women. I think that both AriesAthena and HebrewHammer will agree with my totally unbiased opinion that Tufts engineers are really fun to work with and make great study partners in pre-med courses. </p>

<p>Your daughter might want to consider a major in Biomedical Engineering…</p>

<p>Another neat area is Cognitive/Brain Sciences. Tufts has a world-wide reputation as one of the best in this area and has research relationships with MIT.</p>

<p>[Tufts</a> University Center for Cognitive Studies - Home Page](<a href=“Center for Cognitive Studies | Tufts University”>Center for Cognitive Studies | Tufts University)</p>

<p>In terms of undergrad research funds, Tufts also has a program that you should be aware of:</p>

<p>[Undergraduate</a> Education at Tufts University](<a href=“Homepage | AS&E Students”>Homepage | AS&E Students)</p>

<p>In terms of internship grants, Tufts also has a program that you should be aware of:</p>

<p>[Tufts</a> Career Center](<a href=“http://careers.tufts.edu/students/internships/funding.asp]Tufts”>http://careers.tufts.edu/students/internships/funding.asp)</p>

<p>There are also funding programs in some departments.</p>

<p>In terms facilities neither Wellesley (nor MIT , nor Harvard) has one of these</p>

<p>[Tufts</a> University Opens $27 Million Granoff Music Center](<a href=“http://www.newswise.com/articles/tufts-university-opens-27-million-granoff-music-center]Tufts”>Tufts University Opens $27 Million Granoff Music Center)</p>

<p>and your daughter must check out the “Bubs” when they perform there.
[Beelzebubs</a> perform for Obamas at White House](<a href=“http://blogs.tuftsdaily.com/?p=1566]Beelzebubs”>http://blogs.tuftsdaily.com/?p=1566)</p>

<p>Tufts’ new fitness center is very nice as well (my daughter uses it all the time):
[Photos:</a> Tisch Sports and Fitness Center, complete](<a href=“http://blogs.tuftsdaily.com/?p=5250]Photos:”>http://blogs.tuftsdaily.com/?p=5250)</p>

<p>And Tufts’ food is rated the best in Massachusetts (I kind of get a kick out of the fact that our friends at Harvard found a way to turn meals into a competition and serve waffles emblazoned with the Harvard logo)
[Best</a> Massachusetts colleges for food - Tufts - Your Campus - Boston.com](<a href=“http://www.boston.com/yourcampus/news/tufts/2012/11/mass_best_college_foods_rankings.html]Best”>http://www.boston.com/yourcampus/news/tufts/2012/11/mass_best_college_foods_rankings.html)</p>

<p>As far as professors go, here are three that were recently nationally recognized, but there are many more great ones.</p>

<p>[Princeton</a> Review names three Tufts professors among best in country - Tufts Daily - Tufts University](<a href=“http://www.tuftsdaily.com/princeton-review-names-three-tufts-professors-among-best-in-country-1.2782409#.UWDrkkrD_EY]Princeton”>http://www.tuftsdaily.com/princeton-review-names-three-tufts-professors-among-best-in-country-1.2782409#.UWDrkkrD_EY)</p>

<p>I am sure your daughter will have a great experience, and if any questions come up, just ask them via the parents thread!</p>

<p><3 the above post!</p>

<p>Mastadon, that is the kind of informative post that is really helpful. It is much appreciated!!!</p>

<p>Mastadon, that’s an awesome summery. My son got admitted in Tufts. we are deciding between UC and Tufts. Of course UC is half tuition as Tufts. he is interested in medical school.
as you mentioned pre-med is the best. there is no exactly pre-med major, does it mean bio major?</p>

<p>FromCalifornia: your son should NOT major in “pre-med”, even if it were offered. Aside from being a waste of four years, it’s a great way to get rejected from medical school.</p>

<p>He can major in whatever he wants to major in; he only needs to take classes in general chemistry, organic chemistry, biology, and physics. </p>

<p>Is he “interested” in medical school, or is this a life-long dream? If it’s the latter, and you’ll be willing to give him some of the cost savings from college towards med school, then consider that route.</p>

<p>ariesathena, thanks for the advice. But is it easier to get in the medical school with major in bio field other than computer science or engineering?</p>

<p>You can major in anything to apply to med school, as ariesathena said, you just have to take the required courses, and no, it isn’t easier to get in with a bio major than with a comp sci or engineering major. (If anything, because engineering curricula are widely recognized as being very demanding, an engineering student with the required pre-med courses could be in a better position than many liberal arts major when it comes to med school apps.)</p>

<p>WCASparent, thank you! Now I have a better pic of this pre-med. Anyone can comment on internship prog in Tufts? I read from tufts bulletin, sounds like school will provide the internship to the students? or students have to find on their own inside the school or outside?</p>

<p>

I strongly disagree with this advice. Anyone who can handle engineering has the smarts and the work ethic to get tremendously good grades in liberal arts courses (barring, of course, people who are great at math but cannot analyse literature to save their lives). They can certainly get great grades in chem, physics, and bio, provided that they are not overloaded with other work. </p>

<p>Most pre-meds at Tufts took the minimum required credits when they had organic chem, and then made sure that their other classes were relatively easy that year. Engineers get to take organic chem alongside differential equations, thermodynamics, electrical engineering, and a liberal arts class. Then they are graded on the exact same curve as the people taking orgo along with literature, art, and golf. </p>

<p>But med school admissions is all about GPA, and, as I pointed out on another thread, engineers have extraordinarily low GPAs. (I seem to recall that only about one-in-four people in my major ended up with more than a 3.2, and that’s out of a group of people with an average math SAT score of the mid-to-high 700s.) If you want to work twice as hard for worse grades, then try to get into grade-oriented med school, then major in engineering. They will absolutely give your 3.2 more consideration than the 3.2, or even the 3.3, of a liberal arts major.</p>

<p>Perhaps this analogy will explain my opposition to the plan: imagine that athletes are selected based on their average mile pace, and that they can put in their applications with times from various races - 10ks, half-marathons, marathons, triathlons. The selection committee will give a little extra weight to the triathletes, since they are obviously competing in a harder event. </p>

<p>Sure, there’s triathletes who can pull off almost the same per-mile pace during the marathon as many 10k runners can, but the majority will run more slowly, despite being far better athletes. Why not work as hard at training as a triathlete would, then absolutely rock the 10k, instead of handicapping yourself by submitting the triathlon per-mile pace?</p>

<p>Ariesathena-
I am not clear from your comments as to why you “strongly disagree” with what I said. Can you clarify?
On a separate point, med school admissions is not just about GPAs. The admissions committees at med schools consider not just the difference in different schools (e.g., a 3.7 at SUNY Albany is not the same as a 3.7 at JHU), but also the difference in majors (e.g., English or Classics vs Biomedical Engineering). My source on this is a close friend who is on the adcom of one of the top med schools.</p>

<p>WCAS: oh, that’s so charming! Your adcom friend told you that they would love to take a 3.7 chem-e from a school like Tufts or JHU, and you are now confused by what I’m saying!</p>

<p>Here is the Tufts engineering breakdown of summa cum laude by major, class of 2008, and summas in engineering, 2003-present:
<a href=“http://engineering.tufts.edu/docs/SOEfacMtg_2-18-09_SummaCriteria-ProposedRevisions.pdf[/url]”>http://engineering.tufts.edu/docs/SOEfacMtg_2-18-09_SummaCriteria-ProposedRevisions.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>About 5% of chemical engineers break a 3.75. Other engineering disciplines are not as dismal, but overall, the SOE gives out cum laude at a 3.2:
<a href=“The Bulletin | AS&E Students”>The Bulletin | AS&E Students;

<p>Compare liberal arts:
[Arts</a> and Sciences honors requirements tightened - News - Tufts Daily - Tufts University](<a href=“http://www.tuftsdaily.com/2.5511/arts-and-sciences-honors-requirements-tightened-1.598932#.UWT3bMV_D0Y]Arts”>http://www.tuftsdaily.com/2.5511/arts-and-sciences-honors-requirements-tightened-1.598932#.UWT3bMV_D0Y)</p>

<p>I majored in both engineering and liberal arts, WCAS, and am here to tell you that the latter is remarkably easier - much less work, much higher grades. While some medical schools may actually adjust their expectations enough to compensate for the radical difference, many do not.</p>

<p>I’m not sure how current your information is regarding the practices of med school admissions. </p>

<p>Every year, we have several engineers apply to medical school, and they do extraordinarily well in the med-school process. What WCASParent said completely reflects both my own understanding of med-school admissions, and what I’ve explicitly heard stated from the med school admissions folks here at Tufts.</p>

<p>Either way, the advice holds: a major in bio does not, all on its own, confer an advantage in medical school admissions. </p>

<p>And since all pre-med students take a set of common classes (bio, chem, orgo, phys, so on), it’s relatively easier to compare performances across majors assuming med schools are aware of the rigor and challenge of securing strong grades in those courses. Awareness absolutely exists for students coming from Tufts, and considering that I can manage that awareness for literally thousands of high schools, I have to believe that med school admissions officers can and do maintain awareness for the rigors of the comparatively much smaller universe of colleges and universities out there.</p>

<p>Dan is it possible to take all the required premed courses starting sophomore year? Looking forward to meeting you at Jumbo Day next friday.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the info and inputs. So students can apply medical school from any majors. bio does not have advantage. Tufts has a excellent program ‘Early Assurance’ for sophomores. I bet it’s very hard to get in. 3.5 GPA does not sound too high if it’s for high school GPA, but it might be very hard to get in Tufts with all the excellent students around the world. any comments on GPA in Tufts?</p>

<p>ariesathena-
Just curious: do you “listen” to yourself (figuratively speaking), or is it your intention to offend and to come across as so superior and obnoxious? Based on posts of yours in other threads (responding to other people), i am regrettably beginning to conclude the latter. I hope that I’m wrong, and that you’re just tone deaf.
I majored in English at Tufts, my son in engineering, so I am well aware that most liberal arts majors are easier than the engineering majors, which is the point I was trying to make. Nor was I talking about the appeal of a 3.7 in Biomedical or Chem-E to a med school adcom; i was suggesting that a Biomedical Engineer from Tufts with a 3.4 - 3.5 might be viewed as or more favorably by a med school adcom than an English major from Tufts with a considerably higher GPA. (Indeed, Tufts expressly recognizes the difference in the cutoffs for both Dean’s List and Latin honors in the A&S vs the Engineering schools.) Dan’s information apparently comports with mine.
Perhaps in the future you could offer your point of view with less attitude.</p>

<p>fromcalifornia-
The 3.5 GPA for the “early assurance” program at the Tufts Med School is a minimum threshold, of course. As has been indicated by numerous posts above, a 3.5 GPA is certainly achievable at Tufts, and it’s certainly easier to do with lots of English, Classics and basic courses in Spanish or French than it is in Physics, Math or various Engineering majors, but the Tufts Med School would undoubtedly regard a 3.5 in, say, Chemical Engineering more highly than a 3.5 in Classics.</p>

<p>WCASParent, thank you. It’s good to know that 3.5GPA is achievable at Tufts. I know some schools have rigorous academic prog which let average student get C, instead of B. In that way, 3.5 GPA is kind of the best.</p>

<p>macbeatlebaby - it is. Though, of course, if you start earlier you have fewer semesters with multiple lab classes at once.</p>

<p>Fromcalifornia - actually, if you qualify for the program, the admit rate is quite high (I think better than 50% in most years). This signals to me two things - first, there’s an understanding of how strong a 3.5 is, especially when you load the first two years with so many of the pre-med requirements. Second, that even with a GPA lower than a 3.5, it’s still quite possible to be a competitive applicant to medical school coming from Tufts.</p>

<p>In case anyone was wondering who the Bubs are from my earlier post</p>

<p>[Beelzebubs</a> on The Sing Off - YouTube](<a href=“Beelzebubs on The Sing Off - YouTube”>Beelzebubs on The Sing Off - YouTube)</p>