<p>WCAS: ha! Funny - write a rude, snotty post accusing me of being rude and tone-deaf. You did not do it via PM, which shows that you are more interested in publicly repreimanding me than ensuring that the boards lead to helpful discussions. </p>
<p>You presume to know more about Tufts engineering than I do, since I did it personally but your son did it. (This is reminiscent of Dan stating that he knows more about it than I do, having friends who did it.) Likewise, you posted the objectively asinine advice to major in GPA-killing areas in order to get into medical school, then cited your alleged admissions friend to back up your statements. I don’t know if you are tone deaf of just rude, but those statements make you sound like you have to be right and can’t back yourself up with facts.</p>
<p>WCAS: I have no idea where you got some of your comments. I pointed out that Tufts has different cut-offs for engineering honors; you said that I was wrong because Tufts has different cut-offs. Did you even read my post? </p>
<p>Incidentally, I know many bio/chem majors who dropped out of pre-med when they couldn’t keep their GPAs in the stratosphere. I did not know of any liberal arts students who had that problem. So yes, if you pull through with a 3.5 in chem e or BME, you’ll have a great shot at medical school - because you are in the top 10% of your major. No one is arguing that exceptional engineers aren’t getting into med school; what I am saying is that the other 90% face an uphill battle that they otherwise would not have.</p>
<p>You are making the logical error of assuming results (a stellar engin GPA) and then trying to make an argument from there. Let’s posit someone talented enough to get into biomedical engineering, but who wants to be premed. Then put that person in various class ranks in BME (top 10%, middle half, bottom third, etc). What’s the associated GPA? What would that person’s GPA be if she did liberal arts? Will a BME with a 2.9 even apply to medical school? Will med schools take the 2.9? She could have snagged a 3.4 in liberal arts and been a good candidate. </p>
<p>Honestly, none of us know as much as the pre-med advisors at Tufts who can point you in the direction of your best set of options given whatever your goals are. The statistics for our pre-med students support the premise, basic though it may be, that Tufts offers a successful educational foundation for medical school.</p>
<p>Medical admissions philosophies have changed in the last decade and I doubt there are many here on CC qualified to speak about details as specific as those in this thread.</p>
<p>My only point, which seems to have kicked off quite the ruckus, is that going into a low-GPA major in the hopes of standing out in GPA-focused med school admissions is counterproductive. Moreover, “medical school admissions” are not a monolith, and while many medical schools may overlook a low engineering GPA, some will not - thereby narrowing your choices. (This may matter a lot if your state medical school is one that does not overlook a low GPA and you’re trying to not take on $300,000 worth of debt.) Likewise, preferences for top 10% biomedical engineers does not translate into a preference for top 30% BMEs over top 30% English majors.</p>
<p>My secondary point is that many very capable biomedical engineers may never bother applying to medical school; they may look at their (thoroughly respectable) 3.1s and not even try. Sure, at that point, your career is in biomedical engineering, not archaeology, but if med school is the goal, that might not have been the wisest path.</p>
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<p>When I took organic chem, I was on dean-approved credit overload. My orgo grades suffered as a result - as did those of most of the engineers I know. (In fact, one of my friends said that her psych prof used that class and chem/biomedical engineers to explain bimodal distributions; the smaller bump, lower on the scale, = engineers.)</p>
<p>Going into engineering as a med school route is tremendously risky. Yes, it can pay off by helping you get into Harvard Med - or massively backfire by knocking you out of the running for many medical schools. (Likewise, the MCAT can be the great leveller, but if you’re not an outstanding test-taker, you’re not doing well on either the straight-GPA nor the MCAT front.) To unequivocally state that it is a good idea, as per WCASParent, is simply wrong.</p>
<p>I also cannot reiterate enough how diverse medical schools can be with admissions. If your dream is to move back to Nebraska and keep your debt load low so that you can be a family doctor or stay at home with the kids, then it does not matter whether Tufts or Harvard Med will overlook your low-ish GPA; it matters whether UNMC will. If it happens to be a GPA-focused school, then you can kiss your low-debt load doctor dream good-bye.</p>
<p>Hi everyone. Exciting news daughter was one of the winners of the Axa Achievement Community Scholarship! We are going back this Friday for Jumbo day since we were on lockdown last Friday when we went. She is looking forward to being part of the Jumbo community :)</p>
<p>My recommendation for the day: go to the Pre-Health panel. Carol Baffi-Dugan is a serious expect in a lot of what’s in this thread, and I heard her talk last Thursday - it’ll be useful to you. (But, having said that, I would send your daughter to another class and swap notes afterwards)</p>
<p>The rest of it is Q&A with current students. If you’ve got particular questions, I could ask the pre-health advisors what they think. Much of the message from last week was: med school admissions has undergone a major change, and they actively admit students who have a wide set of interests and understandings about the world and the needs of people - they’d rather take a student with a 3.5 who has substantive community and academic involvements than a 3.9 who lacks it. I asked about this, specifically, since it’s been a topic of debate here, and the answer I received was very close to what WCASParent has been saying, only articulated from a perspective of Carol’s personal experience and the experience of the students present. </p>
<p>Other things I learned: the admit rate to med school from Tufts was 87% last year. We’re increasingly known for the strength of pre-med prep, and it shows in the GPA averages for Tufts admitted student. The average age of an incoming medical school student is now the highest it’s ever been in the mid-20s. (though I didn’t think to ask if this was mean, median, or mode). Increasingly large numbers of Tufts students, as is the case nationwide, are not taking a couple of years between undergrad and med school, and in most cases this is a function of a student identifying something they would like to do before jumping into the long road of medical education.</p>
<p>Do you now if the older students are deferring, delaying their application, or potentially re-applying? </p>
<p>If they are delaying their application or re-applying, that would suggest they are building up additional credentials and that med schools take these credentials into account…</p>
<p>I have heard anecdotal examples of this, but I do not know if it represents a trend.</p>
<p>If it represents a trend, then the notion of getting an engineering undergrad degree (assuming you can pull off a high, but not stellar GPA) then going to work and earning a decent salary (that you save and don’t spend) all the while getting interesting work experience could be a viable strategy for med school…</p>
<p>Carol, the Dean and head of pre-health advising, said that deferring is very uncommon and students are recommended strongly <em>not</em> to apply if they think they’d desire deferral. </p>
<p>The answer is ‘delaying’ - though I got the sense that she’d take issue with the notion that the students are delaying anything, just that they have other interests they’d like to pursue first. Or, that was the impression, anyway. In some cases, I imagine, students are deliberately building up credentials, but from the examples she cited, that didn’t seem to be the main impetus for most of the students taking what she called ‘gap years’ between undergrad and medical school. </p>
<p>Considering the movement in the average age of med school enrollment nationwide, Tufts seems in line with national trends on this. </p>
<p>And, she was far more bullish than others in this thread regarding the prospects of engineering graduates applying to med school - which is what I expected to hear, to be honest.</p>
<p>A student wants to do pre-med with bio major which I guess the most students do. what happened after 4 yr or so, he cannot get in the medical school, what should he do then? Of course like Mastadon said if he was doing engineering, he could find a job with under degree. But with bio under degree, most likely cannot find a good job. So the only path for him is go to grad school to get PhD?</p>
<p>I just want to put Dan’s comment in context. Tufts is located in the number one biotech region in the world. Bio majors in other geographies may not fare as well. </p>
<p>I would also suggest looking into the biomedical engineering and biotechnology engineering minors as they are less intensive than full engineering majors and can help differentiate a Tufts bio major from all the other bio majors out there.</p>
<p>following the med school we were talking about. </p>
<p>after 4 yr med school, students go to residency. what’s the % between residency positions and how many are applying? I mean I am sure it’s not 1-1. so by the end, there are some students cannot get any residency which means they cannot be doc after all the hard working? What will those students do then?</p>
<p>also does anyone have an idea about this % in Tufts med school?</p>
It would more depend on what the student wanted to do; given that medical school should be one of those all-consuming passions, not just a generally good idea if you’re good at biology, I imagine that finding a substitute for a MD would be a very personal choice. </p>
<p>Non MD options in medicine include becoming a nurse or a D.O. You could also do graduate school, law school, go for an MBA, medical device or pharmaceutical sales, or a host of other positions. Again, some of it would depend on why the person wanted medical school in the first place.</p>