<p>It’s the return of lizzyisgreat, the ■■■■■!</p>
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<p>That cracked me up.</p>
<p>I really want to go to Tufts =/ Can’t wait for my transfer decision!</p>
<p>Many posts here mention that the two schools are very different without explaining what they mean by that. (SWHarborfan excluded.) Could you please elaborate on the differences? My D has applied to both–visited BC and loved it. Yes, she is Catholic, attended Catholic school, and is not put off by “seeing nuns!” on campus. A Jesuit education is a very broad-based education and is not conservative, from a religious point of view. Obviously, however, a Catholic school will attract a fair number of politically conservative students. We have not visited Tufts, so we’d like to hear more about the real differences between the two student bodies, in addition to other differences in terms of academics, social opportunities, and anything else.</p>
<p>Boston College has the distinction of being better at sports (it’s division I) and being a Catholic institution. BC is also farther out from the main part of Boston than Tufts. Despite Tufts being in Medford/Somerville, it is on the “red line” with Harvard and MIT (hence the brainpower triangle) and thus, is easier to get in and out of the city (You can see the skyline from the library rooftop at Tufts).</p>
<p>BC, however has a really gorgeous campus. Tufts has a very beautiful campus as well, but it isn’t as big as BC. But in general, Boston in the spring is beautiful.</p>
<p>Despite being Catholic, BC, like every college campus, does party.</p>
<p>Tufts has, in general, a more academically achieving student body. Their SAT scores on par with ivies with a lot of individuals coming from the top 10% of their class, etc. Because they have the Fletcher school/IR, they attract plenty of international students and sons and daughter’s of diplomats, world leaders, or people who come from affluent backgrounds.</p>
<p>But they also have people on the opposite end of the spectrum. In this respect, the school is very diverse socio-economically and ethnically. I have heard that’s not always the case for BC.</p>
<p>BC has a business school and law school, Tufts doesn’t. But Tufts seems more undergraduate focused (But there are some stellar graduate programs).</p>
<p>Indeed, despite not having a business school, Goldman Sachs, Deutsch Bank, JP Morgan, UBS, DE Shaw among others recruit here (and not in something small, but significant. Like Goldman Sachs recruits in Investment Banking).</p>
<p>But there are obviously a lot of recruits for government jobs and non-profits (Because of the International Relations influence).</p>
<p>On the flip side, Tufts is also known in the sciences. Specifically, there are a lot of pre-meds, pre-vets, pre-dentals, and even some nutrition people. Engineers are also gaining ground as the focus is centered upon engineering leadership (e.g. using your skills to change the world).</p>
<p>Computer Science is also heavily on the rise. Both Google and Microsoft recruit at Tufts. And Tufts has a strong alumni network. So it’s a school that is continually on the rise.</p>
<p>I would also argue that because Tufts has a smaller student population, there is also more interaction with professors (the student/teacher ratio is about 1:7 or 1:8 or something to that effect).</p>
<p>So that’s what I know about Tufts.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, I feel it comes down to more of if you prefer a bigger school or a smaller school and where your interests reside. If your D feels more comfortable in a Catholic environment, then kuddos. She should go where she is happy, because that’s where she will do best (it’s all about fit).</p>
<p>But Catholic schools aren’t as conservative as people think. Even Notre Dame. While the administration may be conservative at these schools, the students usually aren’t. People still drink heavily, hook-up, etc. and engage in the “college experience”–whatever that means.</p>
<p>Thanks much. That was a very helpful reply.</p>
<p>^I can’t say how this compares to BC, but I’d say that Tufts is more action oriented than most colleges. Particularly in IR (but I think in other fields) there seems to be an attitude that it’s okay to go out and start changing the world now, that you don’t need to complete your theoretical studies first. It’s an aspect that appealed to my son and it’s really proved to be true. They are also really truly serious about their international focus. My son went abroad over winter break do some research - Tufts helped fund the trip and he’s only a freshman.</p>
<p>I have a child at Tufts and have visited many times. The academics are excellent and well respected. The campus is beautiful, located is a safe area and the location (without regard to the New England weather) is perfect. Students can stay on campus and enjoy the “Tufts experience”, venture to nearby Davis square (a quaint area for coffee, dining or first run movies) on the free “Joey” shuttle, or hop on the “T” and be in Boston in less than half an hour. Students are friendly, compete with themselves rather than each other and diverse. The dorms are more than decent and the food is very good. At 5000 undergraduates - the size is perfect. The atmosphere is definitely liberal leaning but my sense is that any student can fit-in.</p>
<p>To balance out the argument my younger child has just been accepted to BC and is very excited about the opportunity. BC is gorgeous, close to public transportation and located in a very safe area (something us parents really care about). I have visited a couple of times and feel that BC is much more preppy, big into sports, has fantastic school spirit and is way less diverse (which is fine with my mostly white, preppy, catholic and spirited child). The academics are very strong, the reputation excellent and the catholic influence is undeniable. BCs size, over 9000 undergraduates, seems a bit more impersonal. BC has a significant housing problem and most students are kicked off of campus their junior year and allowed to return to campus their senior year. Half of all freshmen are forced to live on a campus that is a mile away and need to get up early to take the bus to classes. It seems like BC is more conservative and best suited for a certain type of student. The question is are you the BC type? If not </p>
<p>I am proud of my child and will be extremely pleased if she decides to attend BC next year. Interesting enough she has also applied to Tufts as a stretch school (it definitely takes a higher SAT score and GPA to get into Tufts). If given the opportunity she has indicated that she will drop BC like a hot rock and become a Jumbo. Bottom line: both are most selective schools with lots and lots of happy students and successful, supportive alumni. Any child with a choice between these two excellent schools is very fortunate. Good luck to all!</p>
<p>Full disclosure: I know 2 BC students (who graduated from BC, in the past 6 years), only, personally, and the one scholar-athlete who transferred to Tufts from BC, in the recent history.</p>
<p>I know 20-25 Tufts alumni and current students, combined. I am so very impressed by a kind of iconoclasm and intellectual risk-taking quality in each one of those Jumbos (Tufts students/alumni). </p>
<p>I also did grad and medical school at Harvard, albeit a little over 20 years ago, and I had heard, ad nauseum, about how provincial the BC student body was, that there was a kind of xenophobia on campus. Flash forward to modern day BC, and I still hear tell that the school is still fairly provincial, which doesn’t mean that the students aren’t bright and high-achieving, merely that the sensibility is not that of a student body chosen for its progressiveness, sense of adventure, global outlook, pervasive altruism, and intellectual (which is different than academic) hunger and passion. The recent BC to Tufts transfer student insists that not two schools student bodies could not be more different. He says that the late-night dorm discussions at the two schools are world’s apart, and he also felt that there was more pervasive interest in “drink” on the BC campus. And, yes, one person’s opinion, but it does jive with the press, historically and currently, about BC.</p>
<p>I just happened upon this thread and suggest that y’all look at IPEDS to get the facts, which are the demographics of BC and Tufts are virtually indistinguishable. </p>
<p>Both Tufts and BC are 61% full pay, i.e., both student bodies hail from wealthy families. Tufts is need-aware in admissions, whereas BC is need-blind. (IMO, full pay is % of students receiving grants, not federal loans which have to be paid back.)</p>
<p>While BC has more self-reported White students (65% to 58%), it also has more URM’s than Tufts (13% to 11%). Tufts international is 6% vs. 4% for BC. </p>
<p>Approx. 93% of Tufts students were in the top decile of their HS class in comparison to BC’s 89% (which includes recruited D1 athletes).</p>
<p>While the culture of the two schools is decidedly dissimilar and a reason for picking one over the other, the demographics are not (IMO). (Nor should they be, since many/most private colleges are 60+% full pay; some even approach 70% full pay.)</p>
<p>Both excellent schools. D is a Soph. in the Engineering School at Tufts. One note stated that 30% of the student population at Tufts is Jewish. While I don’t know what the Catholic demographic is, it seems that Catholics are in the minority at Tufts. </p>
<p>As for diversity, BC is promoting AHANNA and trying to be more diverse but keep in mind it is a Jesuit institution and is proud of it…BC is predominately Catholic. Tufts is more diverse than BC across the board evne though it has 5000 or so less students. </p>
<p>Tufts is a NESCAC school and is as close to an Ivy as one can get. The Engineering and IR schools are great. The Profs. grade tough…the student body is very smart and most study very hard all of the time.</p>
<p>BC is a much stronger school academically than it was even 10 years ago. It is close to but not perceived to be as prestigious as Tufts. The connections you can make at BC however are legendary and can last a lifetime. BC grads are everywhere and they look out for one another. The schools are really very very different and therefore they are very difficult to compare.</p>
<p>This thread made me laugh. I’ve never seen BC and BC students more misrepresented anywhere. Clearly many of the posts about BC are by people who don’t know much about the university and buy into the stereotypes (not of the school alone, but of Roman Catholics, 50% of whom identify as Democrats). And let’s just remind ourselves that Tufts is ranked 28 and BC is ranked 31 by US News; from some of these posts you’d get the impression that these schools weren’t practically equal. Just sayin’.</p>
<p>Rankings truly miss out on so much, and it all depends what each person is looking for. For me, the BC environment surely isn’t one that would promote my educational excellence. But that’s just me. The rankings account for mundane and leave out sometimes overlooked factors. It all depends on what you’re looking for though.</p>
<p>I completely agree - different environments that the rankings can’t capture. However, these days Tufts and BC are considered academic equals and BC is arguably just as diverse as Tufts except for the hard religious diversity numbers (yes, 70% of BC students identify as Catholic, but not nearly that percentage are practicing/religious, as I’m sure is also the case with the 30% of Tufts students that identify as Jewish). BC and Tufts undeniably come from different backgrounds; BC started out as a school for Irish working class men. However, with each passing year BC becomes increasingly diverse (just look at the facts) and it’d be impossible to tell of its history today. Also, BC is a Jesuit institution; while some people will always label anything “Catholic” as right wing conservative, those who choose to look beyond this label will see that the Jesuits are some of the most open-minded and accepting individuals in our society. </p>
<p>Tufts is an awesome university, I am not denying that. I just feel as if BC has been misrepresented (as it usually is) by individuals unfamiliar with the university.</p>
<p>No offense NRG21B, but USNWR rankings isn’t a good metric at all. Especially considering that BC has never been in the 20’s range and Tufts has never been in the 30’s range. Besides, look at the SAT scores, ACT scores, acceptance rate, student teacher ratio, etc.</p>
<p>That’s not to say BC isn’t good or doesn’t have smart students (they do), but there is a clear distinction, in this regard, between Tufts and BC. But comparing BC and Tufts is like comparing apples and oranges. BC and Tufts have different cultures. And they appeal to different people (and no, it’s not just a Catholic v. non-Catholic or Liberal v. Conservative framework).</p>
<p>No offense taken. If USNWR (which ranks Tufts 28 and BC 31) is no good for you, then how about Forbes (BC- 27, Tufts-34)? So, perhaps BC has never been in the 20’s and Tufts has never been in the 30’s, but numbers and rankings don’t really work like that, unfortunately. A 28 ranking and a 31 ranking is comparable to a 1 and 4 ranking, respectively. The jump from 29 to 30 may look like a big one, but I assure you, it’s not. </p>
<p>Anyway, rankings aside, Tufts’ most recent acceptance rate- 27%, BC-30%. 3 percentage points…Not that acceptance rates speak to the quality of the school, but we are talking a difference of 3 percentage points. Hardly enough to distinguish the two schools or assign them to different levels. </p>
<p>You cannot really compare Tufts and BC in areas pertaining to size (i.e. student teacher ratio). BC has 9,000+ undergrads, and Tufts has 5,000. But if you do, Tufts- 1/9, BC- 1/13. Again, not much of a difference.</p>
<p>Anyway, the point is, even comparing ACT/SAT scores, not a huge difference. Sure, Tufts may have the slightest of edges on BC, but one would think that by reading this thread they are light years apart. </p>
<p>In the academic world, Tufts and BC are equal, whether you would like to accept that or not (just like one would consider Harvard and Yale equals, despite some small differences). </p>
<p>Tufts and BC do have different cultures (although certainly one is not the antithesis of the other, i.e. Tufts is liberal and BC is conservative),that’s not disputed. I chimed in for two reasons:1. BC’s culture was completely misrepresented based on the little knowledge some posters had of one or two students who attended BC or based on stereotypes (Come on, Liberal Tufts, you should know better than that…) 2. Posters at Tufts for some reason like to think that an inch of difference between two schools is equivalent to a mile of difference. </p>
<p>Like I said, Tufts is a great school on many levels, but so is BC. Let’s just remember to keep ourselves levelheaded here, ok?</p>
<p>I am saying rankings are bad in general.</p>
<p>For example, in your Forbes example, your logic would mean that BC is better, if not on par, with Upenn, Dartmouth, and Duke to name a few. It would also mean that West Point is better if not on par with Harvard. Seems kind of odd.</p>
<p>But both Forbes and USNWR are based on subjective criteria. The TIMES rankings of world universities, which is based on “objective data” (whatever that means), ranks Tufts 53rd in the world. BC is 161. But that’s just as silly because while the data may be objective, the type of objective variables utilized is arbitrary.</p>
<p>BC has a HIGHER acceptance rate than Tufts DESPITE having more applicants. BC gets like 30K applicants, and Tufts, 15K. Despite this, BC accepts more students and still has a higher acceptance rate. Mathematically, you would think BC would be more selective given that it receives twice as many applicants.</p>
<p>You are right though, acceptance rate doesn’t mean anything. Indeed, in 2009, the acceptance rate of Tufts, which you cited at 27%, tied both Northwestern and U of Chicago who also had 27% (it by no means disparages BC, which is obviously a competitive school).</p>
<p>Student/Teacher ratio goes a step further. It means that even if a school has a large student population, then this is off-set by the number of faculty. Harvard actually has more undergraduates than Tufts but has a lower student/teacher ratio (there’s is like 1:7 while Tufts is actually about 1:8 (some sources say Tufts has 1:7 like Harvard and others say 1:9, so it depends where you look). For BC, this is 1:14 (or 1:13 like you said. Again, depends on your source. But it’s still really good). This is a substantial difference. Here is why:</p>
<p>75% of Tufts class have fewer than 20 students. For BC, this is 48%. For classes that have over 50 students, this makes up 4% of Tufts classes while it’s 15% for BC classes.</p>
<p>And test scores do show some important things:</p>
<p>Composite SAT range 25-75%</p>
<p>Tufts: 2050-2300
BC: 1880-2150</p>
<p>It indicates that smart kids are going to a specific institution. Obviously both schools attract bright kids. But that difference in composite SAT scores isn’t a “slight difference.” But that isn’t all there is to a school. Obviously, kids aren’t just numbers. And a school isn’t just a number too. </p>
<p>There are other important factors, but that’s where the fit comes into play. And in that respect, Tufts and BC are different. I agree that both are excellent schools. And BC is filled with amazing alumni (my favorite being Peter Lynch). But their focuses are also different. Tufts is considered more academic. That’s not to say that BC isn’t or that you won’t go far or you will get a bad education by going to BC (anyone who thinks that is silly). But Tufts does tend to attract more academically driven individuals.</p>
<p>You are right though, when it comes to number, it’s pretty much just semantics. Honestly, at the end of the day, once you get to the top 50 schools (or even 100), in my opinion, you should go where you have the best fit because that’s where you will do best and make more out of your life.</p>
<p>I don’t mean to drag this out, but just a few points: </p>
<p>The TIMES rankings are actually the most subjective of all. They are based entirely on surveys. I can’t even imagine all of the biases surrounding that process…yikes! It even says that they give more weight to research because it’s easier for academics to evaluate research; this hurts schools like BC from the get-go. It clearly states this on the website if you would like to check it out. Point is: TIMES rankings are not objective. </p>
<p>Is it a coincidence that the rankings that are more objective show Tufts and BC as essentially equal? You can decide that. Just remember, Tufts has 10 years on BC, a university that initially served local commuters. In 2006, Tufts ranked 27 and BC ranked 40 on US News. In 2011, Tufts ranked 28 and BC ranked 31. I don’t know much about trends, but there appears to be one here. In any case, it will be interesting to see how the US News rankings evolve in the coming years. </p>
<p>In 2010, BC and Tufts both had an acceptance rate of 26%. Ok, so in 2011 BC had an acceptance rate of 30% and Tufts 27%. I really don’t think that one can argue for a drastic difference between their acceptance rates. You mentioned that BC has a higher (by 3 percentage points) acceptance rate than Tufts despite having more applicants. BC has 30K applications, Tufts 15K. So, you pointed out that BC accepts more students (3% more of the applicants it receives, hardly a large difference…) and still has a higher acceptance rate. But you failed to mention that BC is also twice the size of Tufts, so it should be accepting twice the amount of applicants that Tufts accepts. But BC and Tufts are still equally selective (by my standards, at least). Correct me if I’m wrong or am failing to see something, but this just confirms their equality. A school that accepts 1 student from 2 applicants is no more selective than a school that accepts 2 applicants from 4 students. BC accepts 30% from 30K. Tufts, half the size of BC, accepts 27% from 15K. If BC were the same size as Tufts, then I would worry if it were not significantly more selective with that amount of applicants. </p>
<p>Compare Tufts and BC by the breakdown of the US News rankings in 2010 (a year old, but it serves its purpose). It doesn’t take a Tufts engineer to realize that their numbers are almost exactly the same in practically every category. (<a href=“http://supportingadvancement.com/potpourri/us_news_and_world_report/us_news_rankings_2010_summary.pdf[/url]”>Board Evaluation Tool) I’d just like to point out that you incorrectly reported that classes >50 make up 4% of Tufts classes and 15% of BC classes. The actual numbers are 5% and 8%, respectively. </p>
<p>Sure, Tufts might have a slight edge on BC when it comes to standardized tests. However, standardized tests don’t speak to the quality of an institution. The scores largely overlap and Tufts has engineering (BC does not), so naturally its engineering students will bring up its scores in mathematics (I’d hope). </p>
<p>Surely there are other factors to these schools. You said, “But their focuses are also different. Tufts is considered more academic. That’s not to say that BC isn’t or that you won’t go far or you will get a bad education by going to BC (anyone who thinks that is silly). But Tufts does tend to attract more academically driven individuals.” Once again, another case of someone on this thread turning an opinion/stereotype/whatever into fact. BC students are very well rounded individuals, but don’t mistake that for a lack of academic drive or intellectual interests. </p>
<p>Tufts and BC are peer institutions at the end of the day, but for some reason it is very difficult for some posters to accept that. BC is not here to take anything from Tufts, and Tufts has nothing to lose by acknowledging BC as a peer institution of equal prestige. We can both agree that there are different cultures at these schools, but I would not define all Tufts students by Tufts’ loudest culture, and I would expect the same treatment for BC students. Tufts students have turned down BC and BC students (myself being one of them) have turned down Tufts. There are both religious/non-religious/athletic/nerdy/intellectual/quiet/loud/hip/preppy students at both schools (which are also equally diverse save for religious diversity, although I assure these posters that a small percentage of BC’s Catholics are actually practicing and religious, as I am sure is the same for Tufts’ Jewish students).</p>
<p>I know we both agree that BC and Tufts are excellent universities, but you cannot help but add the footnote that Tufts is “just a little bit better”. I know I spent a lot of time throwing out numbers, but I did this to prove the point that Tufts and BC by any reasonable evaluation are equal. At the end of the day, they are excellent schools, and I don’t think it’s possible to go wrong in choosing either school over the other in terms of where they will get you after graduation.</p>
<p>That last post makes a lot of really good points. Surely, Tufts seems to attract more “academically focused” individuals, but that can’t rank a school. I think rankings are complete hogwash, for the lack of a better word. I, personally, like Tufts a lot better than BC, but I said “personally.” I feel it is more research driven (something I love), it has a liberal arts feel even though it’s not a small liberal arts school, the student body seems to match my character, etc. etc. But these facts are for me and me alone. If I DID want an institution founded that had religious routes or wanted one that is more “well-rounded,” maybe I wouldn’t be so partial with Tufts. It’s not to say that either school is better. Looking at pure stats: Tufts (class of '14) has a 24% acceptance. BC has 30% (class of '13 since I couldn’t find a more recent stat). However, I don’t think these numbers are good to look at. Take a school like Harvard. Obviously some applicants that apply there have a very small chance of getting in and apply for the name, so take the “kind” of applicant into consideration. Take the size of the schools into consideration. Take the amount of people they accept into consideration. It’s clear that percent acceptance really doesn’t tell much in either direction. It’s a meaningless task. Moving on to SAT scores: Tufts has a 690-760 (R), 690-770(M), and 690-770 (W). That seems pretty well rounded to me. BC has 610-700, 640-730, and 630-720. Even if you are trying to be nonpartisan, the statistics do show that Tufts has higher SAT scores. Now, what you make of this is your own interpretation. If you feel a school is better based on SAT scores, then go for it. If not, then it means nothing. It’s all what you’re looking for. The fact that Tufts has an engineering school doesn’t really influence the data that much, considering the non-math sections are also higher and especially because the engineers have a lower average reading and writing score, according to the data. In the end, it’s a matter of taste. Assuming you get into both, you’re going to pick the one you think is best, otherwise, you wouldn’t have picked it in the end (unless you flipped a coin). I have my opinion, and I will voice it in saying I think that Tufts is a better school, overall. These are based on my opinions though, and in my mind, Tufts is justified to be “better.” In anyone else’s though, the thought process may be different, and so be it. That’s the way of the world. It’s like this. If you want a career in music, would you go to Dartmouth or Julliard? Which one’s better? In the end, the decision’s yours.
For what I want, research, the faculty and student atmosphere, and everything else, Tufts is my place. It’s my haven.</p>
<p>I don’t want to drag this out either, because we both agree that both are great schools, but I will say this:</p>
<p>Penguin does make a point on SAT scores (because remember, you have to include non-engineers). But also that Tufts acceptance rate in 2010 was 24% and this year (from the Dean’s blog) it’s 22% (Tufts and BC were NOT both 26% in 2010). </p>
<p>According to BC’s own fact book,</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.bc.edu/publications/factbook/meta-elements/pdf/10-11/10-11_fact_book.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bc.edu/publications/factbook/meta-elements/pdf/10-11/10-11_fact_book.pdf</a></p>
<p>The acceptance rate was 31% for 2010, not 26%.</p>
<p>What’s interesting is the number of seats available. BC is a bigger school, and they offer more seats than Tufts. Interestingly, both schools probably have not changed the amount of spots to fill, just the number of applicants have increased. I got my data on 18% from College *******. But Student/Teacher ratio plays a big part. A better student/teacher ratio, in general, means more individual attention.</p>
<p>That being said, TIMES ranking is based on research output, etc. You know, like citations. That’s not subjective. There is a category of teaching (and they use statistically significant surveys on reputation). That can be subjective. But I mean, you realize that Forbes uses data from ratemyprofessor.com, right? That’s REALLY subjective.</p>
<p>I think rankings are stupid. USNWR uses 25% on subjective materials. And Forbes is just as silly (I mean, as I said, BC beats out Duke, Dartmouth, etc.). And even Times says Tufts beats Brown and Dartmouth. Rankings, in general, are stupid. It’s pretty silly to say there is a trend when using two data points. By that logic, are you suggesting that BC will be in the top 10 one-hundred years from now? I think rankings in general are stupid, in every way. It’s just one person’s opinion using arbitrary methodologies. That even goes for the Times rankings (despite it being favorable to Tufts or whatever).</p>
<p>At the end, we can all agree on fit. And in that respect, in fact, my own personal belief, is that once you get to top 50 or whatever schools, just go wherever you fit best. Whether that be an ivy or BU, or whatever. As long as you are happy, you will make the most of it. I will agree to disagree or whatever but that’s all I am going to say.</p>