Tufts vs Harvard vs Vanderbilt vs Upenn

Colleges and Universities A-Z Vanderbilt University
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Hey guys,

Within the past few weeks, I’ve blessed with some incredible college choices, but these acceptances also come with extremely hard decisions to make. I was accepted into Harvard, Vandy, Upenn, Tufts (and Emory, Vassar and WashU In St. Louis but I’ve wiped these off my list) however, I can only go to one of them. I care less about general school reputation and more about my specific major. I’m also not enchanted by Ivy League status so saying “go to Harvard because its Harvard” wouldn’t be very helpful. I’ve lived in Philly for the most part of my life so I’m looking forward to leaving Philly and exploring other parts. I’m majoring in either IR or Computer science. I’m also not really into sports. Here are my verdicts based on my campus tours.

Vanderbilt- I loved the campus and the general student body vibe. I also liked the commons. However my major concern is the Greek life thing. I stayed for an overnight on a Friday and the excessive drunkenness and the “party hard” of some frat boys I saw raises a red flag for me. Also the “Southern” vibe and the rich preppy stereotype bother me. Another concern here is also the hate or negative comments I’ve seen on Vandy’s forum. Apart from that great academics and Nashville which is also a great city to live in.

Tufts- I absolutely fell in LOVE the moment I stepped on campus. The students were super friendly and I saw in them who I
want to be while in college. Great food (seriously guys check out Dewick’s food!) and a beautiful campus too. I also loved the personal and intimate feel on campus and the general student vibe. It’s also just outside Boston which means lots of internship opportunities. If I didn’t have these great options I’d have committed to Tufts already without looking back. However, the way people (my parents) keep saying Tufts is not academically up to par with Upenn and Harvard sort of make me think twice.

Harvard- Great campus and it’s just outside Boston but there seemed to be a cut throat and overly competitive vibe which I’m not sure I want. Also hard to turn down because “it’s Harvard” (oops sorry). I’ve tried hard (maybe too hard to love Harvard) but the connection just isn’t there.

Upenn- I’m almost certain I won’t be attending. Too close to home and I think I’ll fit in more at one of the other three.

Cost is also not a factor since I received little to no aid from these schools. Btw I’ll be attending the accepted students day and maybe an overnight stay for Tufts, Harvard, and Vandy and hopefully I’ll get a firmer view of where I’ll be by August.

For now, what are your thoughts guys?

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You have several great choices. I’ll try to address your concerns you have about Vandy. Greek Life certainly dominates the social scene at Vandy. However, the administration is trying to curb its influence (see http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/vanderbilt-university/1868189-thoughts-from-a-recent-grad-p1.html). I personally am not a fan of this decision, but others are. As far as the rich preppy Southern stereotype this really isn’t true anymore. Most of the students are on financial aid and many are from outside the South. There are rich preppy guys here, but you will also find them at the other schools on your list.

Reading your post it seems that Tufts is definitely your first choice. It is true that it isn’t on par with UPenn or Harvard, but it is still a great school in a great location. It is very hard to turn down Harvard, especially since cost isn’t a factor. If I had your choices I would definitely attend Harvard. However, if you love Tufts go there.

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I have a child at Vanderbilt and a stepchild at Harvard (who is studying computer science) so I think I’m in a pretty good position to contrast the two. As much as I love Vanderbilt and consider it a fabulous school and a great fit for my daughter I would encourage you to go to Harvard. The reality is that at ALL these schools you will find students who are competitive and some who are laid back. There are nerds and 24/7 partygoers. There are absolute geniuses and dullards that will leave you scratching your head over the admissions decisions. Point is: Your experience at any of these schools is going to depend a lot less on the specifics of the school and far more on who you happen to meet (is your freshman roommate a good fit or a nightmare? Are the professors in your particular classes inspiring or just phoning it in? etc.) Some randomness in terms of outcome is inevitable–there’s no guarantee at any school. And, to keep some perspective, I have found that most students end up very happy at the school they attend, even if they wind up at a “safety school.” So most likely you will do well and be happy at any of these schools. So why go to Harvard? Because the opportunities that attending Harvard will offer you in terms of internships, job recruitment and other such “extras” are beyond compare. I have seen this first hand and it is jaw-dropping. It’s not that the kids at Harvard are so much smarter than others-they just lucked out. So start at Harvard. If it turns out not to be a good fit you can always transfer. But you have won the lottery here and there is no reason NOT to cash in!

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I have a daughter who is in her first year at Tufts. Like you, she fell in love with the place when we first visited and she applied ED1 over both Brown and Hopkins. She still loves it and is very happy. Unlike you, she was not interested in any Ivies other than Brown, as she did not want a core curriculum (which I believe both Harvard and Penn have)and while she has good friends at Harvard, and enjoys Cambridge a great deal, the atmosphere there struck her as a little self-important and competitive. At Tufts she has found smart, interesting and NICE kids. And she can be herself, which, at 18, she is still finding out what that is. It’s an eclectic group, not everyone is either a perfect 2400, a champion pole vaulter, or the son of a Senator. Partying is pretty much limited to the weekends, and not everyone parties every weekend. She has found school challenging, but not overwhelming, and she easily got involved in different groups (radio station, club volleyball) and is able to get into leadership positions in her freshman year. No question that opportunities are manifest at Harvard, and it’s got “that” cachet, but some kids do turn Harvard down. It has a higher status than Tufts for sure, and Tufts will always live “in the shadow” of both Harvard and MIT. But its star is ascending, no doubt. One thing you don’t want to do, is go to Tufts, or Vanderbilt, and spend time telling people you turned down Harvard. If that is going to happen, go to Harvard. Go to Tufts if that is what you want. It’s not like it’s a junior college in comparison. You are obviously a very bright and accomplished person, as well as being pretty mature and grounded (I infer that from the fact that you aren’t immediately picking Harvard because it’s Harvard, and are giving a great deal of thought to the matter). And honestly, with your abilities, you will soar wherever you go. You should visit each place again, possibly more than once. You will be living there for 4 years and it’s your life. You may also want to read the book, “Excellent Sheep.”

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Based on your post, Tufts. However, visit all with an open mind and ask questions about the things that concern you about each. Your first impressions may not be your last. Congrats!

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Thanks for all your responses so far! I’ll be going to “dore for a day” on the 19th and by then, hopefully, I get a much better sense of Vandy.

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@just123098 Tufts maybe…didn’t you say IR? They are really good with those sorts of majors. I suppose Penn would be strongest for CS, but it looks like Tufts is really where your heart and mind is and is also just known to be extremely strong in one of your areas of interest (whereas none of the above is particularly exceptional at CS at the UG level. They are typically known to be different levels of decent or good I guess). When you choose one elite with extremely strong programs in your area of interest (if that is your major concern) then they are likely known for their strength because they have similar qualities (or are better/more interesting or innovative) than programs at schools that are generally considered more elite.

Vanderbilt: Those are kind of unfair conclusions. That is often the nature of Greeklife at MOST (if not ALL) schools. Vanderbilt is not particularly special there (it seems like you are complaining about behavior of some Greeks and lesser so it being a large social scene. I feel as if obnoxious people who overdo it can easily be avoided at any school). Also, if you stayed there before, then less of your opinion should be based upon what you see on here. Use the visitation program to actually seriously observe and make your own opinion. It seems kind of like you had some ideas or biases in your head and looked for them. If you can avoid that next visit, do so. Maybe sit in some of the classes or explore different social venues/hang out with a different crowd next time. You have to be careful on brief college visits to not project pre-conceived notions of the school. Think about the opportunities it can provide in your areas of interest.

Harvard: It is intense, but I definitely would not say cut-throat. I feel that is something folks throw around a lot for it and thus I imagine one would tend to look for it if they are there. Unless you will be a pre-professional (especially pre-health) Harvard (and maybe most schools acused of being overly competitive) probably unfairly earns that reputation (as does JHU). I am a fan of its academic intensity in several disciplines (only this school turns CS50 into a phenomenon, and I don’t know who isn’t a fan of the networking). However, if it isn’t for you, then it just isn’t for you I suppose.

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"However my major concern is the Greek life thing. I stayed for an overnight on a Friday and the excessive drunkenness and the “party hard” of some frat boys I saw raises a red flag for me. "

Haha that reminds me of the first time I visited Vandy. I was walking by Greek row (right next to Barnes and Noble), and I saw a bunch of ~frat stars~ playing really loud music in the middle of the day, holding beer cans as they sat outside their house. The only exposure I had had to Greek life was Hollywood, and they were pretty much confirming the stereotypes, so I know how you’re viewing Greek life. However, as I came to Vandy and got to actually experience its community, I found that Greek life at Vandy has many levels. There are stereotypical frat guys (who are just as accomplished as any other student, but you know what I mean!), and then there are students who are involved in Greek life, but are far more moderate (BYX doesn’t even serve alcohol). Many students have an identity beyond their Greek letters. For me, there doesn’t seem to be a major divide between Greek and non-Greek Vandy students. The only time you may experience it is during rush or formals. But apart from that, we’re all Vandy students with many common interests, classes, and student organizations. Greek life is a social outlet, just like multicultural organizations and living learning communities, and most Vandy students are a part of more than one social circle.

“Also the “Southern” vibe and the rich preppy stereotype bother me.”

That’s not so true in 2016. We have a very diverse set of students from different backgrounds, and I really wouldn’t characterize Vandy as a completely preppy school today. You may find some elements of it, but nothing too overwhelming.

“Another concern here is also the hate or negative comments I’ve seen on Vandy’s forum.”

Ahem, some posters on Vanderbilt’s forum don’t even go to Vandy. As for those who have negative things to say about it, I agree that no college is perfect and Vandy can improve in certain aspects, but rather than cribbing about something on an anonymous forum, there are many ways to find your niche and social life here. If you make an effort to get to know people and stop reducing them to stereotypes only, you WILL find your home at Vandy, whether it’s in a frat house, in a living-learning community, a theater group, or in the science labs of Stevenson. And you can be a part of more than one social scene easily.

Good luck to you! You have amazing choices in front of you, but I would encourage you to make the most out of your visit to Vanderbilt!

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Go to Harvard. If you’re blessed enough to get accepted there…TAKE IT!!

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@HisTyNess : Uhmm…it isn’t a blessing for everyone. Some people who attend places like HYPM end up miserable because it wasn’t exactly what they were looking for academically and socially. If you don’t fit with the school, they are definitely intense enough to easily kill your grades and drive. Some students often even talk of feeling isolation at those schools. They can be quite the adjustment even more so than other elites. However, I am also sure that they end up growing on some folks.

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I’d say Tufts or Harvard. Can you do an overnight visit at each, go to a class, etc? That might enable you to see beyond the stereotypes.

Tufts is great for IR and is very committed to the idea of global citizenship.

FWIW, my daughter vastly preferred Tufts over Harvard when we visited. If you do choose Tufts, it’s not as though you’re slumming.

However, Harvard is Harvard. Sorry! :wink:

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Just123096, congratulation on such wonderful options. Your post shows wisdom beyond your years and you are on the correct process to sort out your options. A few points concerning VU. Alcohol issues are a concern at most colleges and includes Greek, residential housing, dinner clubs, and GDI students. IMO Vandy is doing more than most to educate and address these issues. Two, all of your choices attract well funded students from advantaged backgrounds. 66% of VU students come from outside the Southeast. Outside of TN, the most represented states are IL, CA, NY, FL, TX, NJ.
Yes, Harvard is Harvard and it’s hard to turn them down. I don’t think I could. On the other hand some students from Harvard visit VU, PENN, and Tufts and go home saddened by what they are missing out on.
Good luck.

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Huh? I don’t think it is what they are missing out on so much as them recognizing that Harvard feels like a pressure cooker in comparison to most places. Also, there is typically a “grass is greener” feel when you visit other good places.

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Maybe I chose to visit Vandy on a wrong day. I guess weekends at most schools will also be somewhat drunk and full of parties. I’m visiting again on the 19th and hopefully I get to appreciate a Vandy education more. Thank you for all your responses so far!

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just123098, as a parent of a Vandy grad, (and husband and I were grad students there), I am glad you are going to Vandy to simply enjoy your admission and take a look. In the end, go with your instincts. I remember walking Vandy in April after our son was admitted. We were strolling around Easter morning, and Greek Row was covered with discarded beer cans and trash. (no I don’t like that-- the trash itself looks really entitled to me, but same at UVA, Duke, etc after tailgates --at scores of colleges.) I dislike the entire Greek system, but my other son benefitted from Greek life and insisted it was for him. He found it to be a supportive way to deal with what can be a challenging time in life.

Our Vandy son attended because he liked Nashville and the campus a very great deal, knew he would get a lot of smaller classes along with larger ones, the town had family resonance and he received a significant amount of merit aid. He never warmed to Greek life, but when 60% of the males do not pledge, you have to cop a big attitude to not realize you can create your own life just fine–be the master of your own experience anywhere. Perhaps it is a little tougher when half the girls go Greek if you are a girl. Keep in mind that by junior year anywhere, people are all about their summer experiences, semesters abroad and next move.

While it is pointless to defend Greek life or condemn it here, it is easy to point out that Vanderbilt also has several really vibrant graduate schools on campus. This definitely adds to the overall institution’s feel…just as it does at Emory, Duke, Harvard, Yale, Penn etc and your state flagships. Even though you want to have a cozy undergrad experience…you see what is coming next daily and that can be refreshing

It’s not like you are in Hanover, NH in the snow on a campus like Dartmouth (we loved Dartmouth…don’t get me wrong…) and there is nowhere to go but to frat parties on weekends. Nashville is not Boston but it is such a convivial place. I personally think Vanderbilt is a very vibrant and well-run institution with good leadership and very good instruction. The facilities are also exciting. Vanderbilt, UPenn and Harvard on your list probably have a lot of money to contribute to their student facilities and experiences, Harvard dwarfing most institutions in endowment.

I can’t remark on Harvard. I am close to a young woman who chose a top ten liberal arts school over Harvard, only somewhat wistfully. Her HS teachers were very upset when she didn’t take Harvard’s admittance. She received a Fulbright this year out of the prep she got from that little college she attended that wasn’t as “fabulous” as Harvard.
Harvard however is forever if you can imagine yourself there. I would encourage you to not be intimidated by Harvard re competition. There are savants at all these schools now. you simply run your own race and try to cheer for others along the way. Sure there are a few pathways that require high GPAs but the GPA is not that central to success as you might think. B students do AOK. Believe me. You will likely handle standardized testing well in the future when required again.

You will never get it “all” at any school. Small can also be very unique and special. Pick for your mental health and for your long term plan. Pick for your financial health for graduate school. Do not spend all your financial resources in your first four years unless you are happy to do grad school in public schools.

Enjoy your choices in this moment and allow yourself much of April to think it out. Be gracefully interested in others in your class and their decisions, and make sure to stay light-hearted while you decide. All of your options are golden.

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not me @bernie12, I went to MIT and LOVED IT! In other words…whether you’re going to Harvard or Vandy, it is YOU who determines whether you’ll do well at wherever you go. YOU control the tempo of what you get out of school…if you “fit in” (which I don’t believe in) or not…not others. Its your life and you control it! No matter what! REMEMBER THAT @just123098 !!

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I graduated from both Harvard and Vandy. Let me be blunt.

  1. Choose Harvard unless you have an extremely compelling reason not to do so.
  2. Choose Tufts if you have an extremely compelling reason to do so.
  3. Choose Vandy if neither 1 nor 2 is the case.
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I think it would be a mistake to turn down Harvard for any of your other options. Not because Harvard is the most “prestigious” but because the people you interact with on a daily basis will be a class apart.

It almost sounds like you want to reject Harvard just so that you can say you rejected Harvard.

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@NerdyChica That is completely wrong on your part. I initially applied to Harvard because of its computer science program (and because it’s Harvard), however, I’m looking for a rich and vibrant undergraduate experience which will most likely be based on “fit” and not prestige or ivy league status. I want to go where I feel I can get the best out of myself and make the most of the opportunities around me. You sound as if people don’t turn down Harvard or the only way to a bright career is by studying in Harvard. I’ll re-visit all my options with an open mind and hopefully, I’ll make a decision soon. I actually, started considering Computer science as my major since Harvard does not have a true IR major, so saying I want to turn down Harvard so I can brag about it is totally false.

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@just123098 : Keep in mind that it (or any school) need not have a major in IR so much as some concentration in it. Even at most schools with a definitive major, IR or IS will overlap with a regular political science or government major heavily. IR being on your diploma will not differentiate you much from people with only political science. Only experience, internships, computational, and math skills will.