<p>My child has been wait listed at several ivy's (Harvard, UPenn, Cornell, Duke...) but was accepted to the above three (as well as Univ or Virginia, State University of NY at Geneseo, Fordham, Northeastern). I knew we would probably not get financial aid or merit aid at an ivy. To me, it would have seemed less painful to spend 60K or more at Harvard or Duke then spending the same amount at Tufts or Univ or VA. Am I off base here? Geneseo (state of NY school) would only cost 14K per year for my kid to attend (and is highly rated), but of course, he really does not want to go there. Fordham gave him 30K, Northeastern gave him 20K. Is it worth the $ to go to Tufts or W and M or BC? I have been researching this for days but really can't say I am getting closer to an answer. My child will most likely go to grad school. We do have the $ to pay the bigger price, but I do worry about future potential job loss, etc. Many schools are easily 40K more per year than Geneseo, is it really worth it? Gotta say, I am not really enjoying the college process so far, I really do not know what the right thing to do is...but I am happy that my kid has some choices. </p>
<p>UVA, Tufts, and William & Mary are elite colleges in their own respective rights. In fact, UVA is an academic peer of Ivies and equivalent academic peer colleges. </p>
<p>IMO…if you’re willing to spend money for the Ivies…it’s worth spending money for UVA, Tufts, and W & M. </p>
<p>One question, what does your child want to study and what kind of grad school is the child looking to attend? </p>
<p>Also, what kind of campus environment does your child prefer? </p>
<p>The colleges you listed seem to run the gamut from small LACs(W & M & Geneseo) to large universities(Cornell, NEU). </p>
<p>If you’re unlikely to qualify for any financial aid, the COA at W&M is about $12-15K less per year than at Tufts or BC. Two of our kids went to W&M OOS, and the savings over a comparable private school was among the reasons. Geneseo is a GREAT instate option for him, and the student bodies are similar there and at W&M. If he plans to return to New York state after school, Geneseo has more name recognition up here than W&M. My own kids knew they would not return, and that was another reason for choosing W&M.</p>
<p>He will get a great education at any of the schools you’ve mentioned, so congratulations to both of you.</p>
<p>Liz, as you know nobody can really answer that question. The money is often a concern and each family has to weigh the issue. However, ivy/Duke waitlists aside, he has some good choices. You let him apply to the top, full pay (neither Tufts or BC give merit aid) schools and I am sure Geneseo was a true safety. If the money is painful, perhaps Fordham or Northeastern are good choices. Both are good schools and the price differential is easier to swallow. What did you tell your son about his choices? We were clear with our kids that super expensive privates would only be possible with some merit aid. I would also think that UVA out of state is still less costly than BC or Tufts. And probably somewhat less expensive for housing etc. What does he want? </p>
<p>Tufts is one of the “little Ivies” along with Bowdoin, Amherst, Williams, Wesleyan. Bates, Middlebury…there are more. I am from the Boston area and Tufts is considered top notch around here. But whether or not you want to spend the money for any college is something noone can answer. I would not pay for the name of any school, honestly, but for the experience itself. The campus, location, vibe along with academics and other opportunities. If an instate college is so much more affordable and offers everything your son wants, then it would be a serious contender. But if you would pay for Harvard, then Tufts,for instance, should be considered as well because it is an excellent, well-thought of school, as are all the others you mention. </p>
<p>I’m assuming that you thought about this before you allowed him to apply to these schools, but envisioned him getting into one of those you considered definitely “worth it.” (A minor point, but Duke is not an Ivy. 
It is an equally great U, though.)</p>
<p>Although I certainly understand that it takes a big gulp to commit to full pay at those rates, it does seem somewhat unfair to me to change the rules of the game in midstream…unless you told your S upfront that you might not want to pay for those schools. (In which case, why apply, but that’s another matter and water under the bridge.)</p>
<p>What are your son’s interests? Not a definite major, but a general idea. When you say he will probably go to grad school, are you talking about an academic program leading to a PhD, or a professional school (med school, law, dentistry, journalism, etc) or a terminal master’s credential in something like social work or a health field? The big difference is that conventional wisdom has it that academic programs should be funded, or it isn’t worth going. The others are likely unfunded, with very scarce grant money. Also, do you have other children to consider?</p>
<p>I would say that looking at the presumably less expensive choices, that Northeastern with 20K would attract me more than Geneseo. The coop program is great, it is located in Boston, a cultural center and one of the great college towns.</p>
<p>Would it make you feel better if your S took out some of the minimal federal loans? Noting that if you still have the $$ you could choose to pay them off for him when he graduates.</p>
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<p>Not among knowledgable employers. </p>
<p>W & M may not be as well known among some NY area laypersons on the street, but it is known and respected among many NY/NE area employers and grad schools. </p>
<p>It also has a much longer history of being known as an reputable/elite college, especially considering Thomas Jefferson was one of its illustrious alums. </p>
<p>Assuming you will not need to take out large loans to afford a private, I would ask - </p>
<p>What does your son want to study? Even if he is “undecided”, he probably has several majors in mind. He might want to take four years of Chinese or Arabic, for example, participate in a co-op, take an extra year to add on an additional major, have the flexibility to double major or change majors late in the game, work in a research lab during school years and summer, do a study abroad program or two that are specific to the university in question, or even take upper-level classes with specific professors. </p>
<p>Our own experience was that each school, from safety to reach, had programs that were attractive aside from merit money, and advantages not easily duplicated elsewhere. For an undecided student, the more expensive schools seemed to have “more” of these programs. (But, of course, sooner or later even a student who double majors or takes an extra semester or two can only take so many classes or sequences…)</p>
<p>We also found that it was easier to get information about schools (and what we would be paying for were we to choose a more expensive route) once our children had admissions offers in hand and the shoe was on the other foot, with colleges trying to convince them to attend.</p>
<p>I would suggest that you attend admitted student days at most if not all of these schools, and talk with professors and students (preferably, upper class men) in departments of interest. Read school newspapers, set up sample four year schedules for a few majors, and look at what students have to say in Rate My Professor. Look carefully at both upper level classes and intro classes. Be aware that some classes and programs are “invitation only” or require a minimal GPA. </p>
<p>Ask about attrition rates in majors or course sequences of interest to your son. At many schools, majors such as math, economics, and physics have very high attrition rates, even among students entering with tippy-top SAT scores. At some schools, intensive language programs move very quickly and some students are surprised when they cannot keep up with the pace, dropping long before they reach upper levels. </p>
<p>High GPA’s do not always indicate grade inflation - sometimes they are indicative of students self-selecting for difficult classes, avoiding classes outside of their comfort zones, planning schedules with care to allow more time for studying in difficult classes, students taking full advantage of tutoring or study groups, or repeating classes after a withdrawal or poor grade. Ask about school policies for placing students into intro classes (at some schools everyone goes into the same section, regardless of background), and managing repeats and withdrawals. </p>
<p>If many students are getting through difficult majors and course sequences because they are entering with backgrounds that go beyond typical Advanced Placement, or are taking summer coursework to ease up schedules (at additional expense), it is good to know about this ahead of time and plan and budget accordingly. At some schools it is very common for pre-meds to take at least one of the major science classes over the summer, for instance. Ask about availability of tutoring for students who are having trouble keeping up with particular classes, and support services for students encountering difficulties. </p>
<p>Best of luck with your decision.</p>
<p>BTW, the schools on this list that <em>I</em> would be willing to pay for, if I were in your position with what you tell us of your financial position, are U VA, Tufts, and possibly W&M. And Northeastern. Full disclosure: I freely admit that I tend to dislike strongly religiously-affiliated schools. (A highly personal choice, obviously, and please people do not launch into a needless defense of BC and Fordham.)</p>
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Sorry - should have made clear when I said “up here” that I meant upstate NY. I’m sure you’re right that W&M is well-known in NYC. However, Geneseo is known and respected throughout NY, as well.</p>
<p>I base my assertion on my daughter’s job search. When she was looking for work in our upstate area after graduating from W&M in 2005, employer after employer had never heard of W&M. She had much better results looking in the DC area and was in fact hired without the required experience for the job that launched her toward her current position, in part because of the W&M degree.</p>
<p>If your child plans to go to graduate school, Geneseo is a great deal.
I’ve visited the school, and I realize it’s not as charming as W&M. (My older daughter decided not to apply to Geneseo.) I think the stats for the admitted student bodies for Geneseo and W&M, may actually be very similar.</p>
<p>However, for grad school, Geneseo will have name recognition, and your child will have more money. If your child is considering and MBA or Law degree, the terminal degree is of great importance.</p>
<p>We are also looking at Northeastern for my D2.
I have also checked the stats for the admitted students, and they are increasing every year.
I think a Northeastern degree will be worth more in 10 years than it is now, because it has risen so rapidly.</p>
<p>Would Fordham be appealing to your child?
Fordham has a beautiful campus, and is close to Manhattan for weekend activities.</p>
<p>William and Mary has greater name recognition nationwide than Geneseo, Northeastern and Fordham.
I’d also evaluate the strength of all of these choices for the specific program you child is interested in.</p>
<p>I might rule out Tufts on cost. I know it is very selective, but we ruled out applying there for both of my daughters.
We were looking predominantly at schools known for merit aid.</p>
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<p>Geneseo’s had a similar meteoric rise in academic reputation as Northeastern in a slightly shorter period. </p>
<p>While it’s on par with Binghamton now, it wasn’t like that 15+ years ago. </p>
<p>Back in the '90s, Geneseo’s reputation was middling at best. Students who were aspiring to Binghamton or moreso schools like Tufts, UVA, & W & M wouldn’t have considered applying to Geneseo back when I was in HS. </p>
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<p>As highly as I think of UVa (third-best public), For my money, I would not spend the same $$ for an OOS public, as I would for a private (tends to have more resources/$). Of course, W&M is $10k cheaper than most privates at sticker.</p>
<p>OP: I found this to be an odd list. Besides location, what was attractive about Tufts and BC to put them both on the list? Why Fordham? (NY? Catholic? Jesuit?)</p>
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<p>That’s probably because the college list is so unfocused. From afar, it’s hard to see what educational experience your son was seeking (besides USNews’ rank.</p>
<p>It doesn’t seem “unfocused” to me. It seems as if they cast a fairly wide net. What’s wrong with that? </p>
<p>As a matter of curiosity, would you find this list unfocused? Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, Brown, U of C, U of Rochester, Williams, Swarthmore, Pomona, Carleton, Bowdoin.</p>
<p>Update to original post–(and thanks for all the responses, they have been very helpful so far!). My son is not 100% sure what he wants to study. He is leaning towards biology, (not sure about heading down the medical path- he is interested in genetics right now). Part of the reason the schools he applied to seem “unfocused” is because he really does not ultimately know what he wants to do. He has used college rankings to choose schools and is not overly concerned about the religious affiliation of a school. He and I both wish that he did have a solid major in mind, but he is not one of those kids that has wanted to be a veterinarian since 2nd grade. My son applied to Boston College’s Business program due to this fact (they claimed it was easier to transfer out of that program than into it, so he decided to start there and will take some science courses as well if he goes there). As it turns out, I am glad we cast such a wide net because it has enabled us to have a choice at this point. I’ve heard so many stories of kids not getting into their safety schools this year-I guess the bar gets raised higher every year. Otherwise my child would not enjoy a college in a rural environment (which rules out Geneseo…I went there, so trust me, I know!) He liked the pace of Boston and Harvard Square and U of VA seemed to have a lot happening (although we did not have time to go into Charlottesville). William and Mary was quaint but my son would prefer a little more happening (not a deal breaker though). My son is not enthralled with NYC, so this puts Fordham at a disadvantage. We know less about Northeastern, have not visited there as it got added to the list late, so we may not be giving it the chance it deserves. I kind of assume he will go to grad school- who knows what it will be for though since he is grappling with a major right now. I keep on telling him that there are so many subjects that he has not encountered yet (especially with the rigorous AP track at his high school). The early college years are the time to explore (obviously without taking years and years…). We plan to have our son take out some minimal loans and may repay them for him, but are not telling him this! Any additional advice is appreciated if you are still with me…!! </p>
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<p>Indeed. But to me, a “wide net” would have schools with some similarities – just different locations, rankings and financial aid possibilities.</p>
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<p>Perhaps ‘unfocused’ is a poor choice of words, and a better word would be inconsistent (other than rankings). It wasn’t too long ago, for example, that UofC considered dropping its undergrad college. While a wonderful education, LAC-like it is not. (And neither is Harvard, for that matter, but then many apply to H ‘just bcos’.)</p>
<p>For example, other than geography and size, I see few similarities between Tufts and BC; two distinct undergrad cultures. Thus, when those are two of the final 3 options, and the third is an OOS public, the choice IS difficult.</p>
<p>One comment: D is full pay at Tufts. When she opted for Tufts over schools with big merit, we told her it was only worth it if she took full advantage of what Tufts had to offer. She’s done that–and I honestly can’t imagine that the school located a few stops south on the T could have offered her any more. Challenging academics, fellow students who are brilliant and involved in an incredible range of activities and opportunities, funded travel and research, mentorships with professors, great summer internship offers, the works. Because Tufts is so close to Harvard she’s been involved in projects with some H students–and, for what it’s worth, she finds students from both schools equally impressive. </p>
<p>If you can afford it (and it seems like you can) then spending up to $45k+ more a year for Tufts, W&M or BC over Geneseo is worth it in my book. </p>
<p>I think any of his choices would be fine, maybe another visit is in order. My older son wasn’t a big fan of visits when applying, but once it all became more real he paid a lot more attention. He ended up at the very nerdy Carnegie Mellon and loved it. I think BC and Tufts while both near Boston are sufficiently different that one would have clear notions of which was preferable. My son didn’t even apply to BC. He’s at Tufts. Liked the location, campus, easy access to Boston, IR offerings, and general reputation. He was also attracted to the active citizenship values and the emphasis on engagement in the entire world. I like what I’ve heard about Northeastern and the coop program. Everyone I know who has attended seems to love it. It’s a much more urban campus than BC or Tufts. It might be worth a second look. My son had originally considered W&M, but decided it looked too preppy based entirely on the photos on the website! Since at that point he had gotten into a reach school unexpectedly, he didn’t feel the need to apply to a school he felt iffy about.</p>
<p>@bluebayou, that was my S’s list. He found something attractive about all of them. In his eyes they had plenty in common.</p>
<p>Tufts and UVA are as well respected, if not more,than Duke. So if you think Duke is worth the money either of these should be as well. </p>