<p>Wow, I must live on mars or something because how is it that ND has been leading the way with tuition increases? ND is like every other college/university...they are raising the tuition. MIT announced a 3.8% tuition increase while also increasing it's FA budget. Harvard wil have an increase of 3-5% and will halt new construction. BC has asked for a 2% budget cut in order to increase FA. Dartmouth will have a $40 million budget cut over 2 years to prevent a reduction in FA. How is ND any different? Perhaps the additional tuition is going to FA so why call them out?
Miperson80: I think that ND does not read these blogs. They will charge what they will for tuition and I highly doubt that they will have difficulty filling their freshman class with qualified candidates. I suspect that the waitlist this year will be larger. I am a parent and I have a son who is awaiting his letter April 1st. My husband and I have saved for college and yes our finances have taken a huge hit with this economic crisis. We will be paying the full freight however. My son was accepted to our state university with a scholarship (merit) so we are looking at a $14,000 expense vs. $50,000 at ND and other privates. The decision to go is a highly personal one, to be decided by the student and his or her parents. As for us, we are not excited about paying $50,000 but we feel the education, environment and experience is worth the sacrifice. I will note, that we are biased, my husband is ND'79 and I am SMC'80. We would also pay this at his other choices should he not get into ND. But this decision was made during the application process.</p>
<p>Toasteater-has anyone personally sat down with Fr Jenkins and discussed this issue with him, esp if you are an alum? Seems to me he should be available! The tuition is what it is--we knew this when our own student enrolled 3 years ago. My point is that ND is in a top 20 spot and most of the other colleges and unis in the top 20 are charging at or near what ND is charging. It is a personal, financial decision. One knows the cost before even applying. If you are unhappy about paying, then perhaps taking a look at other more affordable schools should be an option. It is your choice. But, don't complain about ND when you are also applying to those other top 20 schools with comparable tuition rates. And, most certainly, don't complain if you apply. As to the rising cost, it has risen every year that our student has been in attendance. We expected this to happen. ND does not offer a fixed rate tuition plan-George Washington University is one college that does. Therefore, we have not been surprised when the tuition has risen. No, we are not happy over cost; I doubt anyone is. But, we agreed to this when we enrolled our student. There have been no surprises!</p>
<p>Man, the stress and pressure are almost palpable as I read this thread! Hopefully ND can continue their committment to meeting need, but what is a family with just regular means to do? I really feel for someone who started at ND and may have to leave for financial reasons; has that happened often historically? I felt kind of bad when we realized we could not make it work financially, but would really feel bad if DS was there, happy, and then had to leave. Best of luck to everyone, especially 4mom4 and momtofour, and your kids.</p>
<p>I don't think this increase is unique to ND by any means (UCLA's tuition is increasing 10%, if that's any consolation), but it's too bad because there are a lot of comparable schools out there that are a lot cheaper (e.g. Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, UVA, etc.). Assuming you're attending those publics in-state of course. </p>
<p>As for ND AL's assessment of TA's teaching the courses, neither I (UCLA), nor my brother (Berkeley) have found that to be true, and UCLA and Berkeley possess two of the most populous student-bodies in the nation, around 25-27,000 undergrads. Even in my classes of 450-500 students, I've spoken with professors who are Pulitzer Prize winners, etc., on a regular basis. The TAs reinforce the material, but they aren't allowed by the universities (I'm speaking on behalf of those academically on-par with ND) to teach the class per-se. If this is the only reason why people are paying an extra 25,000 per year, perhaps you should reconsider (not that it IS the only reason, but just my $.02).</p>
<p>ND is a fantastic school, but it's too bad they're basically limiting it financially to the upper-upper class, especially with this economy. Exhibit A of why it quickly slipped down a few spots on my list after visit a few summers ago.</p>
<p>Good luck to everyone out there who still wishes to attend though; it's a great school!</p>
<p>We are not paying the extra $25,000 a year just for full professors to teach courses--surely you must know that there is more to it than just that; this was just one example! TAs teaching courses does occur at other top tier unis...</p>
<p>Has anyone had experience with this economic situation, for example, change in financial conditions as mentioned above, and then talked to fin aid office? What was the outcome? I would be very surprised if the Fin aid office refused to help those already in attendance. Anyone?</p>
<p>Merkur-my point in the post is that it is not just ND doing this--the other top tier schools are doing the same thing and charging dearly for it. I certainly don't think that ND should be singled out for raising the tuition and charging this amount and more importantly, one should not complain about it when they are also applying to schools like Duke and Yale, schools that are charging as much or more than ND.</p>
<p>Ok, my point was just that based on my conversations with friends and family at other top, big universities, TAs teaching courses rarely, if ever occurs. I think this was more common 10-15 years ago, but now many if not most of them have done away with it because they know that was a common complaint among students. And again, I'm talking about the top public universities. Maybe it's still common among mediocre ones. </p>
<p>Anyway, again just my opinion. I hope everyone who wants to attend ND finds a way to do it.</p>
<p>Sorry, AL, never meant to single out ND in any way. Clearly, costs are rising everywhere as it becomes more expensive to provide a competitive "product", and as revenues and endowments decline. Personally, ND may be the only place I might consider paying that much-or a significant portion of it- for college. That is because of the social justice, character and spiritual element of ND. (maybe this is a new lightning rod thread:"Is there a Catholic University more Catholic than Notre Dame? Discuss among yourselves.") It's just that the "squeeze" on the middle class grows worse at these top tier schools; is there a risk they may become the elitist Ivys of the early 20th century? Maybe that's unfairly anecdotal, I don't know, but it is how my impression was formed of the "old days," when Emory, for example, was one of the first schools to admit Jewish students who were restricted from the Ivy League. Again, I know that is not the case with ND, but how many families with other kids can pay 20-30k per year out of pocket, after taxes? I hope ND can maintain its policy of meeting all demonstrated need; it seems to me a part of their spritual/social mission. I just hate to see the angst some parents are going through as they contemplate greater sacrifices.</p>
<p>Most parents have always had to make substantial sacrifices in order to send a child to an expensive top-rated private university. Notre Dame is no different from other top colleges in this regard. Families who were prepared to make those sacrifices last year, but are unable or unwilling to do so this year were probably in over their heads to begin with. College is not an unexpected expense. There is an 18 year "heads up" provided, and most private universities make financial aid awards on the assumption that families are NOT paying their EFCs each year solely out of current income.<br>
There were always be families who decide that they cannot justify the marginal cost of a Notre Dame or other private education, just as there will always be families who are able and willing to make those sacrifices. My guess is that Notre Dame is more fortunate that most comparable schools in having a large pool of legacy applicants who are still eager to attend and prepared to make the necessary sacrifices. If that means that the average SAT score is a few points lower, what difference does it make? There is more to a university than having the highest possible test scores.</p>
<p>I suspect that this coming year will be the beginning of what will tell ND about the finances of a great many--or maybe not. It will be an interesting year with the economy playing havoc with so many. Of course, it will not just be ND that may or may not see some interesting financial numbers, either. Private schools are at a premium pricetag and this fall will indeed be telling. Here's hoping that the economy gets moving again for as many that are concerned about tuition, there are many of us that are now wondering if our students will be able to find employment once that graduation day arrives!<br>
PS--it seems ironic that when our student was applying to colleges during the fall of '05, (spring'06) it was the year when admissions were so brutal at colleges across the country. The focus seemed to be less about money and more about just being accepted to a college. Now, it almost feels like the tables have turned to finances and many kids just being able to find a college that is truly affordable. What a difference a couple of years makes!</p>
<p>I think TAs teaching classes absolutely goes on in the upper-tier schools but it does depend on your major. I know for a fact that many science courses (especially labs) are often taught by TAs and not world-renowned professors. I don't see that this is the case at ND (my D is a science major).
Also, with all due respect MiPerson, it seems like ND may not be for you. College costs have always been out of whack. No college worth its salt is going to be a bargain. You get what you pay for. Considering the state of the economy, we should thank God the increase wasn't greater.</p>
<p>Considering the state of the economy? We did just have the smallest increase in CPI since 1954 during 2008...</p>
<p>*tuition increase</p>
<p>Sorry Citric Acid I was just clarifying my original comment. I hadn't read yours 1st. It seems to me, college costs have always been increasing (regardless of CPI). My point is that in these economic times, if we are feeling the crunch then it is not unusual that private (and public for that matter) would feel it too. I'd rather have an increase than cuts that would affect the education my D is getting. Sending my D to ND is a sacrifice but it is one we are willing to make.</p>
<p>ww007, you said that for college cost "you get what you pay for" I have to disagree with that, if a person majored in Engineering at U. of Michigan or Notre Dame, there is not any premium in the job market for the ND degree. In fact, Microsoft interviews at U of M much more than at ND. I was engineering at ND and I work for a science company, and I occasionally inteview engineering applicants.</p>
<p>I do believe that ND degree helps for pre-med and pre-law, but past that, I don't see the premium. But then of course a person has to pay for med or law school , and having the average $20,000 in debt for a ND student would not be good for going onto med or law school.</p>
<p>Miperson, I see your point. However, I was thinking of the overall package that I feel you get at ND as being worth the price, not just the job-getting aspect. I guess you just have to decide for yourself whether any school is worth the price and why.</p>
<p>Have to disagree with you to a certain degree, MiPerson, on the engineering aspect. While ND may not be ranked as high, our student has had no problem finding internships (local software company after freshman yr that begged for more ND students) and research position in which other ND students prior had held. This summer student has landed an internship with a major company that recruited on campus. Why the negativity regarding ND so much? We happen to think that their program is competitive and many people view the degree (whether engineering or liberal arts) as quite valuable.
I am truly sorry that your exp w/ND seems to have been less than positive as evidenced by your many posts.</p>
<p>PS-when is the last time you have visited the engineering school and personally spoke with profs, etc about the program?</p>
<p>I have respect for ND and believe they do a good job educating young people. I am not "negative" on the school, I did go there.</p>
<p>But it does seem like the character of the school has changed, it seems a lot more "commercial" and "brand image" conscious than when I was there. </p>
<p>An this translates into a cost now of $49,000/year, where they are asking for this premium that is reaching a tipping point.</p>
<p>But we can wait and see what happens wih the yield rate this year, I do hope it keeps up, but the economy is so negative (this week, my best childhood friend just lost his job, and my best friend from my ND years just lost his job) that I think all of private schools are going to see drops in their yield , except HYP (which give much better aid than ND).</p>
<p>PS:Also, I do recall a couple of years ago running into the Dean of Engineering after working out on a visit at ND, he complained to me about the only jobs the engineers were getting were for defense work, he seemed very sad about that. But all engineers take the same courses, I don't think the school makes a lot difference for undergrad, but do believe that the U of Mi and ND, where the kids are very smart, it is the competition that make them better, not really the profs or "undergrad research" opportunity.</p>
<p>Again truly sorry for your outlook about ND--perhaps its time to move on as one poster mentioned; ND just may not be the place for your student anymore. I hope that your student can find a school where <em>he or she</em> will be happy, challenged and successful. After all, it is your student that will be attending classes, etc.</p>
<p>As to the engineering education or liberal arts for that matter, it is what the students take advantage of while in attendance that truly matters. Look around, what college or uni is not "brand" conscious in today's world. We did just visit the engineering school this past weekend, and I did not get the feeling in any way that the program is anything less than challenging. Nor did I get the feeling that ND engineering students were settling for less than stellar employment. Sure, the economy has hit some students seeking employment hard right now, but it is not just engineering students that are suffering and not just ND students.</p>
<p>The economy is horrible right now--we can all agree on that point. I, for one, am hopeful that things will change, and sooner, not later!</p>
<p>also, I don't need to "move on" for this subject, I am an ND alumni and can give insights on this issue .</p>
<p>This forum isn't to be "pro" school on everything mentioned but also used to bring up needed issues, and as Obama as mentined, the cost of college education is breaking the middle class and even the upper middle class.</p>
<p>I just would feel sorry for my child or any child, if they went to a top private school, graduated with $20K-40K in debt and then cannot find a job.</p>
<p>Both my wife and I both graduated from college with no debt so that is keen issue for me. But also, I paid my "debt" by going ROTC and 4 years in the military after ND.</p>
<p>Are you also sharing this same sentiment on the other forums in which your student is applying? Those schools are just as expensive and I suspect that there are many who have incurred huge debt for those 'brand name" schools as well and cannot find employment right now or have been laid off.</p>