<p>To MiPerson80:
I have been following this discussion for the last few days, and I must say, that I do feel for you. I am a parent of a sophomore (my husband and I are NOT alums), and we pay full tuition. Yes, we knew very well two years ago what the tuition would amount to for four years, but we never expected our college savings for our other children would decrease by 50%!! We have saved and sacificed since our children were born, as have many others. We have been very happy with our Notre Dame experience. Our son has thrived and received a top notch education. However, I have noticed on this board that it is NOT OK to EVER disagree with any Notre Dame policy. I agree with you that it would have been a wonderful (and a truly Christian act) for Notre Dame to freeze tuition for next year. (They definitely could have afforded it). In fact, I was expecting it.
What people need to realize is that once full-paying families like mine cease to attend Notre Dame, others who need financial aid will no longer be ABLE to attend.
I do empathize with those ND alumni who know they cannot provide their children with the same experience they enjoyed. Mi Person, I am surprised by the hostile reaction that people on this forum have shown to you.</p>
<p>thanks, that is another concern that crosses my wife and I's mind, if we send the first son to ND, and take the significant financial risk, then my next son probably would want to go, and if he got in, then we would be obligated almost to send him, because , like all parents, we want to treat our kids equally.</p>
<p>also, go to the Parents Forum, and see the recent post "This year is a Student's (Buyer's) Market for College Admissions..... ", and go to the NYT link.</p>
<p>This is very interesting</p>
<p>KVthree-</p>
<p>I am surprised that you view other posters' differing views as "hostile" - no one is being hostile - They are just disagreeing with MiPerson80's views about the cost of tuition. I certainly would not label it as "hostile." I noticed that this was your first post so I would recommend that you read other threads to see that it is these "differing opinions" that promote healthy (though at times, somewhat "heated") discussions on this board.</p>
<p>I, personally, was just respectfully questioning MiPerson's attitude about Notre Dame - I sensed that he appeared to be somewhat bitter and unhappy about Notre Dame's tuition and I was just wondering why, if he was so unhappy with the university, Notre Dame was still an option for his son. </p>
<p>My son is a freshman at Notre Dame. We are thrilled that he is there and he is really enjoying his experience at the school. I personally do not care if people disagree with Notre Dame policy or not. I find it rather interesting to see the differing points of view. But one can't expect to post "negative" (if that is the right word) posts on a Notre Dame forum and not understand when other people post comments defending the university. I have always felt that the college decision-making process is such a personal one so it is very natural to defend your child's school. The investment in your child's education is so great that everyone has the right to defend their position - regardless of what side of the coin you are on. </p>
<p>I have 7 children - my two oldest are in college (a sophomore and a freshmen - at different schools) - my third child is a junior in high school. Notre Dame has always been one of his top choices. But due to the recent events in the economy, Notre Dame may not be an option for him so he is looking at other schools. We are talking about other options and generating excitement about these schools as well. My son understands the situation and realizes that he can receive a very good education at other schools and that he can be happy at other universities besides just Notre Dame. So if he gets the opportunity to attend Notre Dame but has to turn it down due to the cost of tuition, then he will just attend another school. Of course there will be some disappointment but it won't be the end of the world - there won't be any bitterness. Having had planned for this situation, he will just choose another school and look forward to having an equally enjoyable experience at that school.</p>
<p>Miperson--the same thing is happening in real estate, it is a buyers market. And a choice to buy real estate right now. (Sorry if the "choice" word offends anyone.) Unfortunately, this is the sign of the times we live in. Go to the Board and Fr Jenkins as I suggested; they will be the only avenue for resolution of the tuition issue-not this forum.</p>
<p>A few random thoughts --
1. Regarding Fr. Hesburgh's tenure -- it was on his watch that ND began the transformation from a mid-range midwestern Catholic school to a nationally-ranked research university. And, it must be pointed out, that it was also on his watch that the focus on the university's Catholic mission began to get blurred. Thankfully, Fr. Jenkins has begun the long and somewhat painful process of turning that ship around. But there is no going back to the days when Notre Dame was relatively cheap and easy to get into.<br>
2. Fr. Jenkins, and every other member of the ND administration, are well aware of the problems faced by middle- and upper-middle class families aspiring to send their children to private colleges.<br>
3. Sending one's children to Catholic elementary and high schools is a personal decision influenced by finances, the needs of the particular child, and the quality and availability of the Catholic school options. It does not necessarily reflect that family's "commitment" to their faith or to the Catholic school system, and taking those expenses into account in awarding college financial aid would inevitably add yet another arbitrary and unfair element to what is already a fairly arbitrary and unfair system. And, in most cases, Catholic parish schools would not be able to survive merely on tuition payments. Most schools are heavily subsidized by the parishioners who do not have children in the school.<br>
3. Of course, it is impossible for most families to save the entire college costs for all of their children in advance. But it is NOT impossible for most middle and upper middle class families to put enough funds aside that, combined with contributions from current income and a modest amount of student loans, a private university education is within reach.<br>
4. There have always been students who regretfully turned down offers of admission from private universities in favor of more affordable state school. I was one of them 30 years ago. Every year, Notre Dame and comparable schools lose students to less costly alternatives.<br>
5. It will be interesting indeed to see what happens with admissions this year. But the record size of this year's graduating class, combined with the fact that many prudent parents pulled their senior's college savings out of the stock market before it tanked last year, suggests that we won't see the real effects of the recession for another few years, when there are fewer students in the pipeline and today's middle school students begin the college application process.</p>
<p>I read what everyone posted on this thread and see the different view points. Personally, i'm stuck between Notre Dame (Mendoza) and Mcgill. My situation is kind of complicated so I'd really like some of your personal inputs on this please.</p>
<p>I'm an international student with a Canadian residency. I applied for financial aid but it's probably going to be all loans, so we are pretty much paying the full price. On the other hand, if attending Mcgill, I would only have to pay a maxium of 20,000 per year. I really like ND and am aware of its exceptional network. If the economy were better, my family and I would probably commit ourselves and hope for a secure job after graduation. However, with the current economy and signs of worsening in the future, I'm not sure where the nearly cost of 200,000 dollars will lead me...I'm sure you've also noticed that it is extremely difficult for internationals to be sponsored by U.S. companies right now</p>
<p>any insights are greatly appreciated</p>
<p>For an undergrad degree, the difference of 30K (50k ND -20K Mcgill) per year is too enormous to ignore. If you really like Notre Dame, the money you save (120K) would almost pay for the two year cost of a Mendoza MBA, and then you could have the best of both schools, once you graduate from McGill.</p>
<p>Does anyone know when EA people get their financial aid letters? Has anyone already started getting them (I heard people are supposed to start getting them around March 15)</p>
<p>Just saw on the news tonight that the University of Connecticut's Board of Trustees just voted for a 6% hike plus job cuts on campus (according to the report the first jobs to go are those held by students). ND is no different than every other college and university by raising tuition. Not saying that it is fair, these days, just a fact of life.</p>
<p>but please do the math here, a 4.5% increase on $49K/yr is more than a 6% increase on an in-state $21K/yr, along with the huge difference. That is why in this year, the public state schools, especially the top state flagship schools, will be flocked to.</p>
<p>The University of Dallas, of major Catholic schools, should get credit for keeping its tuition at a responsible, affordable level. Tuition is about $25,000 this year for a school, that although not on the Notre Dame or BC level, does have a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and about 80% plus law and medical school placement. The school is increasingly attracting better and better students, and might well be a good alternative for "best and brightest" students seeking a strong values based education at a student responsive price. (The application deadine might still be open for Dallas for Fall 09.)</p>
<p>so, i am a student at UMich Ann Arbor, i have been attempting to transfer to ND for a year and a half now and i have never gained acceptance. I am debating if i should apply or not again... but in all honest opinion. Would it be worth it in this economy? I get nearly a full ride to UM on scholarships and etc - some offered from the State. I am not sure if my parents can handle the burden of 49K+ a year with two sisters at out of state uni's and 6 siblings still yet to go. Thoughts? it's only two years of school yet... but personally, i like the ND life better then the Ann Arbor one.</p>
<p>In the States of Michigan or Indiana you might be able to buy a three bedroom house for $100,000, which is the incremental amount you would be paying for two years of Notre Dame versus your full ride at Michigan. Do you really want to spend that much money because you like the campus life better at Notre Dame? Only you can answer that.</p>
<p>The University of Dallas, while offering an excellent liberal arts education with a true core curriculum, can not fairly be compared to Notre Dame. The acceptance rate is over 75%, and there are only 250 students in the freshman class. There is no engineering program or business school. There are, of course, no D-I athletics. The school was established in 1956, and therefore lacks the sense of tradition that Notre Dame enjoys.
But for the right student, especially one who is planning on graduate or professional school, it can be an excellent choice.</p>
<p>Boll, if you're planning on law school as you were back when, going to Notre Dame as an undergrad will not give you any advantage over Michigan. You could put the money you save towards your graduate education thus decreasing the time you'd be a slave to corporate law straight out of LS. </p>
<p>The only situation in which I would seriously consider applying again to transfer is if money were not an issue AND if working in big law for 5-10 years is a plan with which you are comfortable and to which you could commit.</p>
<p>I disagree Jason. I agree with you that there is a cost to going to ND, perhaps working in a firm a little longer, but it may be worthwhile for a lot of reasons. I learned a lot at Notre Dame outside of the classroom. The opportunities for spiritual development are plentiful and I loved the Catholic atmosphere. They were some of the best years of my life, and I wouldn't trade them for the cash back to go to Creighton. </p>
<p>A school like Dallas, which strikes me as similar to Creighton, can be great if you want to go into medicine but may not be good if you switch your major like I did. Once I left pre-med I found that many of the other majors were quite weak (in my opinion) whereas ND's faculty is strong across the board. You are paying for a stronger, more prestigious faculty with Notre Dame. If anyone doubts this pick any department from Dallas and ND and let's compare the faculty.</p>
<p>what about Mcgill..?</p>
<p>my calculations show a higher cost ( over 4 years) of $128,522 for ND, as compared to in-state at the U. Of Michigan. So if your parents don't qualify for any aid at either school, a $32,130 difference per year.</p>
<p>If I am not mistaken, snwrider2007 is considering law school including NDLS, thus the intangibles unique to ND may still be experienced. Staying at Michigan to finish out, as opposed to transferring for his remaining two years, may mean, assuming the numbers suggested by MiPerson80, a difference of over $60,000.</p>
<p>With money as a concern for his family, as mentioned, saving that $60,000 while staying at Michigan and applying to the Notre Dame Law School with that extra money seems to me to be the most fiscally sound choice. Should he be accepted at NDLS, he now has access to both the Michigan and the Notre Dame networks, saves a significant amount of money by attending Michigan UG, experiences the uniqueness of an ND education through LS, and enters the job market with less debt thus freeing his career options a bit from just slaving away in big law.</p>
<p>Of course, this all depends on his acceptance and matriculation at NDLS. But so does transferring to NDUG.</p>