<p>pretty cool, article highlights tulane as a school that offers substantial amounts of merit aid to its incoming students.</p>
<p>Nice article. Thank you for posting it.</p>
<p>WOW…this is amazing and to me, Tulane is a good and cheerful giver (at least according to my standard). Now, I have checked the ranking, Tulane is #50 and what about 49 schools ahead of Tulane that have given a lot of aids to the students? any info?..if they dont give much then why bother going to any of those schools or for lack of better words, who in the right mind would like to graduate and owing 80K or 100K? now, that is the question of this century. Anyhow, thank you Tulane Management for being a good and cheerful giver, good job. Bless your heart.</p>
<p>I have no problem with it, but the merit aid strategy isn’t much about cheerful charity. It is a very savvy operating model for colleges (“enrollment management”) that draws upon the business practices that airlines use to fill seats. Tulane is very good at this, as are WUSTL and USC among others. </p>
<p>[The</a> Best Class Money Can Buy - Matthew Quirk - The Atlantic](<a href=“The Best Class Money Can Buy - The Atlantic”>The Best Class Money Can Buy - The Atlantic)</p>
<p>Thats kind of ironic that the article linked above was printed a few months after Katrina.</p>
<p>Enrollment management is a commonly practiced approach that schools use. Even Hobson’s, owners of this very bb, offers such services [Admission</a> Software | Admissions & Enrollment Professionals | Hobsons](<a href=“http://www.hobsons.com/education-professionals/higher-education/admissions-enrollment-professionals/]Admission”>http://www.hobsons.com/education-professionals/higher-education/admissions-enrollment-professionals/) </p>
<p>so does Royall & Company [Our</a> clients enjoy maximum results for their recruitment dollars](<a href=“http://www.royall.com/company/clients/]Our”>http://www.royall.com/company/clients/)</p>
<p>Yup, and Tulane had a relationship with Royall in the past. Not sure if they still do.</p>
<p>I dont know if Tulane has used their service or not. But, whatever Tulane is doing is fine with me as it is working indeed. It is win-win situation as top ranking students coming from low-income families can afford to go to prestigous college such as Tulane. Regarding cheerful giver, it is a rewarding thing to do and is indeed badly needed in economic down turn like right now. Do good unto others and in the end, you will earn your wing. Now how about 49 other schools ahead of Tulane (based on the UNSWR ranking), have they earned their wings yet?..</p>
<p>You are new to cc, Okla. Welcome! For us old timers, these issues have been discussed many times before. Here is an old post where I linked info. from Royall’s website, listing some of their clients. They don’t seem to be as forthcoming with this info ontheir current website. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/10324167-post125.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/10324167-post125.html</a></p>
<p>Here is a link to some of their current clients <a href=“http://www.royall.com/company/clients/[/url]”>http://www.royall.com/company/clients/</a></p>
<p>Okla - It is a complicated question. Some, like Harvard, Princeton, I think Duke and others have programs where they guarantee the students will graduate without debt because of the cost of attending their schools. In other words, if a family has income below a certain level they promise to cover costs through grants that do not need to be paid back. These are not merit aid, which for most of these schools wouldn’t make sense since nearly all the students are top achievers, but instead need based. It isn’t all or nothing, either. If the family makes somewhere between the bottom figure needed to qualify and the top figure where they do not promise to cover anything, they use a sliding scale to cover some of the costs.</p>
<p>Even schools that do not have this policy often have generous grants as part of their need-based aid package, Tulane included. So even a student that didn’t “measure up” to a merit award can still receive some relief based on the family’s circumstances. In Tulane’s case, like most other schools, the package for these students is most likely to be a combination of this kind of grant, loans, and work-study. Last I checked the average debt for a Tulane grad was $27,500. Certainly not as bad as $80-100K or more, but in this tight job market it makes you pause a bit. My own personal opinion is that no one should take on more than about $25K in debt total for undergrad, so Tulane is a bit outside that but in the general range.</p>
<p>But clearly, and the point of this discussion, is that for those students that worked hard and did very well in high school, they can get generous scholarships from Tulane, Miami, and a number of other schools regardless of their family’s finances.</p>
<p>“Now how about 49 other schools ahead of Tulane (based on the UNSWR ranking), have they earned their wings yet?..”</p>
<p>Okla – Tulane is using the same playbook (merit aid to smart kids but not necessarily the neediest kids) that has been used by several other top 50 schools that have had big increases in their US News rankings – USC, Boston College, WUSTL, Vanderbilt. </p>
<p>Once a school has moved up the usnwr food chain, the playbook then says you stop doing as much of the merit aid and start giving out more need-based aid. At the top of the heap (Ivy league, Stanford, etc.) there’s basically zero merit aid (all the kids are super duper smart) and it is all need-based aid. </p>
<p>Since the tippy top schools have the most money, their need-based aid scale goes up to much higher income levels than it does at schools that are not quite as wealthy. If a kid’s family makes $75k-150k a year, Harvard is going to be cheap (and maybe completely free). If that kid’s family makes in the 200s, Tulane (or another “best class money can buy” school) will be cheaper than Harvard.</p>
<p>Thank you for the info. I may be new but I know a thing or two about schools which have not earned their wings. In addition, I also know about Harvard and other schools that give money for kids whose parents income is below 75K. However, not all schools whose rankings are above Tulane that have earned their wings (and also not everyone wants to go Harvard). For example, my S did not apply Harvard because it is not #1 in BME. Anyhow, Johns Hopkins Univ (JHU), ahead of Harvard in BME Major, and Case Western Reserve Univ (CWRU). They are both are ahead of Tulane and have very good Bio-Medical Engineering programs. JHU is Numero Uno
and CWRU is in the top 10. But, they have not earned their wings yet. To prove that, my S would have been at JHU by now if they have given him at least the same as Tulane. Also, my friend’s son would be in CWRU if they have given him good Merit aids, grants, etc. </p>
<p>So, I still dont believe that other schools ahead of Tulane in UNSWR ranking that have earned their wings. Please dont count Harvard and his gang because they are different stories and are in different league. Anyhow, once again thanks for the info and it is a nice discussion indeed.</p>
<p>Fallen Chemist said: “But clearly, and the point of this discussion, is that for those students that worked hard and did very well in high school, they can get generous scholarships from Tulane, Miami, and a number of other schools regardless of their family’s finances.”</p>
<p>I would say: My S is top 2% in HS with IB diploma on hand and GPA 4.0 unweighted, straight A from Kindergarten while my friend’s S is top 5% with IB diploma and same GPA. Both have finished from Top Public School in the state. Both have been accepted at prestigous schools like JHU (my S) and CWRU (my friend’s S) but the money is NOT generous at all. Therefore, it is not true if those schools or any schools (except Harvard and the gang) will give good money (Merit aids, grants, etc) for those promising students. FYI, both of them have worked hard to earn IB Diploma and therefore have not been able to get high SAT or ACT. My S has SAT only 2,000 and my friend’s S only 2,100. They have not been able to get high scores due to rigorious, crazy IB programs. Thefore, eventhough both have been accepted by those prestigous schools but the money from their schools is very minimal. The Moral story is Tulane has earned their wing while the others have not.</p>
<p>Fallen Chemist and all: Do you know that IB programs are very rigorious, time consuming programs. Many have tried and done the programs but still can not earn the diploma?..and those who have duly finished the programs and earned the diploma usually will not have VERY high SAT/ACT scores. Joining the programs will not guarantee the diploma only will be mentioned the name that they are in IB programs. In addition, the sad thing is many colleges do not recognize the IB diploma at all and therefore will not give lots of Money (merit aids, grants etc) as they are basing the those $$$$ only on the SAT/ACT scores. This is the problem because IB programs are like college courses with lots and lots of assignment plus a big paper towards the end. YES, a big paper like Thesis in college. </p>
<p>I know that college admission is Hollistic approach but still many colleges do not count the IB diploma and its rigorious programs at all. I have talked to JHU and my friend has talked to CWRU and those schools said the same things: eventhough students have been accepted but in order to get better $$$, the students need to have high or very high SAT/ACT scores. So, going back to our discussion, I personally believe that although any kids has studied hard, really hard and has Straight A’s (and also in IB program or not) but still if the SAT/ACT scores are low, they will be accepted but will not get better $$$$. That’s the reality.</p>
<p>I am familiar with the IB program, although definitely not to the extent you are, OKLA. I cannot comment at all on how various schools perceive the program, other than to say I was under the impression it was well regarded. But it is not something I have looked into in any detail.</p>
<p>But as far as some of the things you are saying, while obviously I appreciate the kudos to Tulane, there are other schools that offer merit based scholarships. As I mentioned, U Miami is very similar to Tulane in this regard and is ranked higher than Tulane, so you are being overly broad when you say all the others have not “earned their wings”. In addition, WUSTL has a series of merit based scholarships that while not subject to automatic consideration like Tulane’s, Miami’s, and a few others, they are still available for all to apply regardless of financial circumstances, and they are very generous. I would be willing to bet some of the other schools have similar opportunities.</p>
<p>Also, you say to take Harvard and the other Ivies out of the picture because they are “different stories”, and I assume this would mean Stanford as well, and maybe Cal Tech and MIT. I have not looked into the last two with regard to their policies of guaranteed aid. But then you also have to eliminate the state schools, because the are also “different stories”. Not only is the tuition already much cheaper if you are in-state, but for example, in California you can also receive generous merit grants and there are independent scholarships (merit based) besides. But comparing state and private schools for this purpose is rather meaningless. So with all those schools eliminated from the discussion, and Miami and to a lesser degree WUSTL having merit aid, along with possibly some others, I think you are overstating the case somewhat.</p>
<p>What Tulane does do, which I think is the smart part, is not only to be probably the most generous of the schools for pure merit based scholarships, but to offer this merit money with the acceptance, and to provide the acceptance very quickly when the student meets the criteria. It is not atypical for a top student to apply in early October (EA presumably) and to be accepted by mid-October with a generous merit offer. This prompts the additional research TRIPSDAD talked about, often along with a trip to New Orleans being planned. The campus and city are huge selling points for Tulane, again as TRIPSDAD amusingly points out by mentioning New Orleans so many times. FYI for those not reading all the other threads, TRIPSDAD posted his comment in a related Tulane thread.</p>
<p>So, despite the jibes form some other posters, I do strive very much to be fair and accurate. Sure I am a Tulane booster. I have said that very plainly quite often. I have also recommended other schools to students many, many times. But I think for quite a few students Tulane represents a potentially unique and life-changing experience in a way few others can match. It doesn’t mean it is better per se, just very unique. But I try, and hopefully have succeeded, in promoting Tulane without running down or ignoring the accomplishments of other schools.</p>
<p>Fallen Chemist: Thanks for insight info. That’s why my S only applied to two schools JHU and Tulane not Harvard and the gang since both have good if not the best of BME programs. My S had no time to study for ACT/SAT and no energy to fill-out application forms with its the essay requirements for applying to other schools, Ivy schools or not. Anyhow, my S is very happy with Tulane not only for the $$$ but also they have a very good programs for BME as this is showing in his GPA 3.83 (just recently invited to join the Honors) and is a raising Sophomore now. Life is good in Tulane and NOLA…! cheers.</p>
<p>That really is the bottom line, that your child is A) Happy B) Satisfied with his educational experience and C) Taking advantage of what any school and its surroundings have to offer.</p>
<p>Tulane was actually one of the very first to have a BME program. Not the first, I don’t think, but I remember reading at the time that they were ahead of many in this regard. It has always been a strong program for the school, and a challenging major. A 3.83 in BME is a great start.</p>
<p>Besides, as far as JHU and other great BME programs go, should he decide to go to grad school those are tremendous choices. And since it is probably better to go to grad school somewhere different than undergrad (new perspective, different topic emphasis, etc.) I personally would have to think JHU would be very high on the list.</p>
<p>Fallen Chemist: Yes, my S would like to go JHU and other schools. Indeed, next year right after the school is finish, we will travel to visit the school (JHU), MIT and UPenn for his Phd programs in BME. My S will try to go straight to Phd and earning his Master along the way after getting his undergraduate from Tulane.</p>
<p>FYI, a lot of science programs don’t even bother with the Master’s Degree any longer, if one is in the Ph.D. program. It is rather useless if one is getting a Ph.D. anyway. At least that is how it is/was in the chemistry Ph.D. programs I looked at, including the one I attended. It was also true that in all the programs I looked at, tuition was waved and one even got paid a fairly decent stipend for being a TA. I would be interested to know if that is also true at these BME graduate programs.</p>
<p>Excellent timing by the NYT regarding this issue of merit based aid, and to see how Tulane stacks up against others in the top 50. It confirms my statements above, that other schools do indeed have programs for merit aid, but few as good as Tulane. Now that they have published their table of colleges and the merit aid they give ([Colleges</a> and Universities That Award Merit Aid - Graphic - NYTimes.com](<a href=“Colleges and Universities That Award Merit Aid - Graphic - NYTimes.com”>Colleges and Universities That Award Merit Aid - Graphic - NYTimes.com)) we can talk about this with less guessing/anecdotal references.</p>
<p>For those schools where at least 10% of the students receive merit aid, there are at least 2000 undergrads and they give at least $5,000 on average, Miami (FL) comes out on top with about $23K per entering freshman. Vanderbilt actually was a bit higher at $24.5K, but only 9% of the freshmen get this kind of aid, while at Miami it is 24%. Interesting that Johns Hopkins has average merit aid of $29K, but only 1% receive it.</p>
<p>Tulane, while below Miami $$ at an average of $20.5K per freshman, also has a larger percentage of freshmen that get this aid, at 33%. So while the NYT sorted by absolute $$, there is that factor to consider as well. At the same time, Miami also has about $3,000 lower sticker price. Assuming the rest of the COA is similar, the Miami aid is really good. But in any case both are quite generous.</p>
<p>Now to the issue of other schools in the top 50, excluding those that are Ivies and Ivy-like, and of course the state schools. Duke is not listed (and I do not consider them Ivy-like) so they don’t cut it. Neither does Northwestern. Stanford actually is listed, but only 5% get merit aid and at only about $5K.</p>
<p>WUSTL, on the other hand, has about 19% of the students getting merit aid at almost $9K. Not super generous, but fairly decent number that get the aid. U Chicago is similar, with 16% receiving merit aid at a rate of about $10,500. Rice was not listed as giving merit aid, and Notre Dame gave only 2% this kind of aid, although at a clip of around $14K. Emory was missing from the list, as was Georgetown.</p>
<p>Carnegie-Mellon came in at 8% of the students receiving around $8300, while USC, not surprisingly, was at 24% and nearly $19,000. Wake Forest was only 4% and about $17K, and Tufts was absent. Boston College was only 1% ($17K) and Brandeis only 3% (about $11K). NYU was zero, and I will add the editorial comment that they have a reputation for terrible financial aid and having students come out with huge debt.</p>
<p>I was a bit surprised to see that the University of Rochester doesn’t do merit aid, but Case Western came in at 19% and around $18K. Lehigh was 4% (almost $11K), and finally George Washington at 20% and about $18,500 per student.</p>
<p>So I think that puts to rest that none of the rest of the top 50 have merit aid. True, only a few are in the ballpark with Tulane and Miami, but there are a number that spread out some decent money based on merit alone. Anyway, generosity like beauty is in the eye of the recipient and beholder, respectively. These at least are the facts as reported by the NYT.</p>
<p>Fallen Chemist: My friend’s S was given Merit aids from Case Western for 18K (for 19% of entering Freshmen), that’s all. No grant etc but school loans to be repaid upon graduation. Case Western is as expensive as Tulane and 18K is too little or not enough. Meanwhile, JHU (Johns Hopkins) they dont give easily/liberally to anyone only 1% of Freshmen population. Anyone may be accepted at any schools at top 50 UNSWR ranking but if the merit aids, grants, etc are too little then my advise is take the Route being taken by my friend’s Son. That’s go to city college then transfer to your state university for undergrad degree. Try to maintain high GPA then after go for a better school for the grad school or PHD. School may be too expensive but dont worry there is always a way around it. Nothing is impossible.</p>