Tulane? Syracuse?

Parents Forum
21

<p>I was in New Orleans last week. The weather was in the 70's. The girls were in bikinis and I was trying not to be the quintessential dirty old man.</p>

<p>Tulane is in a very nice part of town but NOLA unlike a lot of big cities is a patchwork of neighborhoods. You can hit some sketchier ones a few blocks off the backside of campus but you wouldn't likely have any particular reason to head that way.</p>

<p>As for sports it does have D1 football and basketball but the only sport kids get excited about is baseball and they are building a new baseball stadium on campus. Tulane is also real good at baseball and in a strong baseball conference. Also I expect the basketball program to improve the next few years. They have a good young coach from Maryland.</p>

<p>The nearest ocean beaches are probably in Mississippi but Gulf Coast beaches are nothing to write home about and the water temperature is like bath water in August.</p>

<p>Academically Tulane is probably under rated. Its rep probably suffers because of its party school label but there are a number of strong departments and some pretty good students. The Business School is fairly good.</p>

<p>In any event if you want weather and beaches go with Tulane. If you want big time footbll and basketball go with Syracuse. New Orleans as a city has a lot more to offer than Syracuse - a lot of good music and a lot of good food and a lot of charm.</p>

<p>BTW Tulane butts up against Loyola of New Orleans which is a nice little school as well.</p>

22

<p>Regarding sports - Tulane's football team may not generate a lot of student spirit yet - but many students have recently become rabid Saints fans. A large contingent have season tickets and according to my S the games this season were more fun than any sporting event he's been to (which is saying a lot - he's a big sports fan). He also likes to go to the Tulane baseball games.</p>

23

<p>Saints games are absolutely awesome to go to. Otherwise, as has been stated, football isn't that big on campus. It really doesn't help that even if every single student and faculty member went to a football game at the Dome, we would still only fill it barely halfway. The stadium is simply too big for us, and LA as a state is too obsessed with LSU football. If only Tulane football would move back on campus...</p>

24

<p>Thanks for the opinions. I'm really interested in Syracuse, not so much Tulane any more. So anything interesting on Syracuse?</p>

25

<p>
[quote]
But the only "Beach" nearby is Lake Onondaga, and it's not only covered with ice much of the year, but polluted (or used to be).

[/quote]
Not quite right. There is a "beach" in the Green</a> Lakes State Park that is absolutely gorgeous (located in Fayetteville, which is about half an hour from SU). The water, as the name implies, in the two lakes is green (think Caribbean). When I was at SU, this was one of my favorite places during the summer.
The closest "nice" beaches to Tulane, IMHO, would be in Destin, Florida - a good couple of hours away.
SoCal18, in regards to your question about what is interesting about SU, what are you looking for? Academics? Social life?</p>

26

<p>My D goes to Syracuse. She is a senior and loves it. She has been so busy with academics and having a great time that she has never complained about the weather. She has had no problems with crime and I have not heard of any problems. She is in Newhouse with a merit scholarship. Syracuse seems to give a lot of merit money if you qualify. The communications program at Syracuse is top notch and well regarded and the business school has a beautiful new building. My daughter has gotten prestigious internships and her friends who have graduated from the business school have gotten good jobs. Syracuse is a big sorority/fraternity school, lots of school spirit. Syracuse is bordered by a street called Marshall Street where there are restaurants, bars, and college oriented stores. Kids also go into the city of Syracuse for restaurants and there is a nearby mall for shopping. For the most part my D stays on or near campus because there is so much going on there. Hope this helps.</p>

27

<p>Before the thread moves in a different direction, here are a few correctives about NOLA and surrounding areas from a native. </p>

<ol>
<li> Beaches</li>
</ol>

<p>There are no beaches particularly close to Tulane, certainly not on Lake Pontchartrain. The beaches on the Mississippi Gulf Coast (one hour east) are very dangerous now because of hurricane debris. I don't know the situation of beaches in Pensacola now (they used to be very beautiful) but that is a three or four hour drive away.</p>

<ol>
<li> The neighborhood</li>
</ol>

<p>New Orleans is a city with some very dangerous areas, but not in the vicinity of Tulane. On the front end of the campus, you are among the most exclusive and well-tended neighborhoods in the city. Another poster said, "You can hit some sketchier ones a few blocks off the backside of campus . . ." I am not sure what that person is referring to, except the "backside of the campus" was under six to 12 feet of water after Katrina, and those neighbors are desperately trying to rebuild.</p>

28

<p>Thanks for the information. The schools are probably really great, but after truly considering them, I can't see myself at either school. I don't really want to live in Syracuse or New Orleans.</p>

<p>But thanks for the opinions.</p>

29

<p>In case you want to do a little more analysis before writing off these two schools, consider the following objective data which is mostly drawn from USNWR</p>

<p>OBJECTIVE DATA</p>

<p>Undergraduate Enrollment:
Syracuse: 12,905 Tulane: 7976 (est)</p>

<p>Cost (Tuition & Fees):
Syracuse: $29,965 Tulane: $34,696</p>

<p>Graduation & Retention Rank
Syracuse: 44th Tulane: 66th
-% of Students expected to graduate in 6 years:
Syracuse: 73% Tulane: 81%
-% of students who do graduate in 6 years:
Syracuse: 79% Tulane: 74%</p>

<p>Faculty Resources Rank:
Syracuse: 45th Tulane: 31st
-% of classes with 50+ students
Syracuse: 8% Tulane: 8%
-% of classes with <20 students
Syracuse: 64% Tulane: 57%
-Faculty/student ratio
Syracuse: 13/1 Tulane: 14/1</p>

<p>Student Selectivity Rank:
Syracuse: 74th Tulane: 32nd
-Average SAT/ACT:
Syracuse: 1110-1320 Tulane: 1230-1425 (est)
-% of students ranking in top 10% of high school class
Syracuse: 44% Tulane: 65%
-% acceptance rate
Syracuse: 65% Tulane: 45%</p>

<p>Financial Resources Rank:
Syracuse: 99th Tulane: 56th</p>

<p>Alumni Giving % and Rank:
Syracuse: 20% (62nd) Tulane: 22% (45th) </p>

<p>SUBJECTIVE DATA</p>

<p>Peer Assessment:
Syracuse: 3.4 Tulane: 3.4</p>

<p>Some of the numbers presented above for Tulane (SAT, enrollment) are for the classes before Hurricane Katrina. If you believe that the school will recapture the level at which it previously achieved, then use the numbers in your comparisons. </p>

<p>Based on the numbers, these schools are relatively close, but Tulane seems to have a measurably stronger student body (SAT and top 10% scorers). Both schools offer a good ratio of small to large classes and academics consider the faculty quality to be about the same. </p>

<p>IMO, both schools offer a very attractive undergraduate experience, but they will be quite different from one another. As others have noted, the biggest differences are the environments. Upstate NY and New Orleans are about as big a contrast as you are likely to find. Also, if the athletic life of the school is important to the OP, then the teams seem to play a much larger role in school life in Syracuse. Syracuse draws the large majority of its students from the NE while Tulane has a more national student body. Tulane has a slightly higher cost, but in the wake of Katrina, the school has been aggressive in its offers o merit aid. </p>

<p>As for your closing comment re not seeing yourself in either Syracuse or New Orleans, I encourage you to keep an open mind. Graduates of both schools have great enthusiasm for their school and fond remembrances of their times there. These schools offer a good blend of academics and non-academics and compare very favorably on these metrics versus many other, more highly ranked schools.</p>

30

<p>I wanted to bump this thread to gain some more information on Syracuse.</p>

<p>Is Syracuse a college town or is it considered an urban area? Also is it in a bad area...I heard on theu.com that it is an industrial ghetto. I want some insider info from people who have actually been there. Is it safe to be in the downtown area at night?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

31

<p>UCSB is no admissions slam-dunk guarantee from all you have said............I would definitely consider it a reach. </p>

<p>LMU and Pepperdine are very small private religiously based schools, especially Pepperdine. VERY diffierent than UCSB, SDSU etc. Also, if I recall from previous posts, you want a very social (party) school and I don't think LMU or Pepperdine are in that category either. Penn State, Indiana, ASU all are huge schools compared to LMU and Pepperdine</p>

<p>How big of a school do you want. You have some extremes here and size does matter :)</p>

<p>As I said in a previous post, your selections seem all over the place:
Do you want a big school?
Urban, suburban or rural?
Greek life?
If you want the beach.......probably cross Syracuse off the list.</p>

<p>I think you need to make a list of priorities and go from there.</p>

32

<p>I swear...someone on here tells me I don't know what I'm looking for everyday.</p>

<p>First of all this thread is old, and some of the schools on my list have changed. I just bumped it so I could learn more about the city of Syracuse.</p>

<p>I don't recall ever saying that UCSB was a guarantee. I understand that it is the most competitive school that I'm applying to. </p>

<p>And size isn't an issue at all. I felt comfortable at a school like Pepperdine, USC, and UCSB...so whether I'm surrounded by 3000 or 20000 people I really won't care. And small classes aren't really a big deal to me either.</p>

<p>And LMU is a very social school. I have been there numerous times and the campus isn't "dry." The students are allowed to have alcohol on campus, and they have an active greek scene. Beaches, bars, and nightclubs are frequented by students everyday.</p>

<p>And I'm not going to discuss what I want in a college because I already have in previous posts. I understand some of my schools are different from each other, but they all offer something I want. Some may have the perfect location, and some may have amazing athletics. There is only one available option that offers both (UMiami), so I have to apply to schools that offer a mixture of things, and I can decide which is more important to me at a later time.</p>

<p>So back to the city of Syracuse....how is it?</p>

33

<p>Syracuse is your customary struggling Rust Belt small city, losing population at about 1% a year, somewhat grimy but generally safe. It now has 730,000 people, up from 346k in 1900. In contrast, LA had only 102,000 people in 1900, hit 732k in 1925, and now has 3.7 million. Still, healthier than New Orleans and a brighter future. Even pre-Katrina, New Orleans was smaller than Syracuse and had lost one-third of its population since 1960, down to pre-Katrina 400k, now less than a quarter million people. It is about the same size as Bakersfield, to give you a sense of it. All Katrina did was expose for more to see its grinding and pervasive poverty and corruption. I would look very, very long and hard at going to school, or moving to, New Orleans, with its blighted areas and high crime.</p>

<p>Syracuse U's college town (a few blocks along adjoining Marshall Street) is pretty typical: t shirt shops, pizza and bars. </p>

<p>That said, the area is beautiful, full of lakes and rolling hills. Weather is among the snowiest in country; falls gorgeous and springs occasionally very pretty days, but lots of rain. </p>

<p>Syracuse draws mostly reasonably good, but not top, students from upper middle income suburban high schools in the Northeast, esp. Long Island and New Jersey. Tulane was historically stronger, but its very future is, if one reads beyond the hype, uncertain.</p>

34

<p>I don't really know why everyone keeps telling SoCal he doesn;'t know what he's looking for either. To me, it seems fairly obvious: he wants a "
party school" with good athletics but also a strength in his expected major. He'd prefer warm weather and a beach, but he's willing to negotiate if he has to (and really, doesn't everyone do some compromising with their college list by necessity?).</p>

<p>SoCal,
Have you looked at Texas A&M? Warm, not too far from a beach (about 2-3 hours), can definitely party if you want, academics aren't bad, TONS of Aggie spirit.</p>

35

<p>Socal,</p>

<p>I see your school X vs school y threads all the time</p>

<p>based on what you have been saying</p>

<p>it seems as if sports and school spirit is huge to you</p>

<p>you are in the west, so why not look at some western schools?</p>

<p>based on what Ive read, why dont you look into these:
University of Colorado
University of Washington
Oregon
University of Texas</p>

<p>also</p>

<p>what about
UVA
Florida
Michigan</p>

36

<p>redcrimble,
Interesting comments on Tulane, but I see the glass as half-full for anyone considering Tulane. For starters, the school is not near downtown (4 miles away) and the 9th ward where the worst damage occurred. The blight and poverty of New Orleans is real, but it is pretty far away from the school (although the medical school is downtown). Uptown, Tulane appears today as if nearly nothing ever happened. There have been reports of higher incidences of crime in the neighborhoods surrounding Tulane (and next door neighbor, Loyola), but the overall scene today at Tulane is a lot closer to pre-Katrina than you might expect. </p>

<p>I have visited New Orleans since the hurricane and my perception is that the metropolitan area is so poor, it's hard to know where the poverty ends and the hurricane damage begins. New Orleans had a surprisingly small population pre-Katrina and those who left are probably not likely to return at this point. Financially, that is probably a good thing as those with means were the least damaged and most have stayed. But the financial and social burden of those who left has now shifted to another city. Other parts of the city have recovered and Bourbon Street is back in full swing and the conventioneers are returning. </p>

<p>Tulane retains its party spirits and combines this with a continuing commitment to strong academics. While the student body and the academics were never quite at the level of the top Southern colleges, Tulane does a decent job and the students there graduate well-prepared and generally have a good balance of academics and social life. That was always one of the hallmarks of the school and I think (and hope) that it will continue to be so in the future.</p>

<p>As for what Katrina can mean for Tulane, it has given the school an opportunity to significantly ramp up its commitment to community service. From what I can see, Tulane is answering the call. For any student who is even remotely interested in helping, New Orleans would welcome your efforts. If community service and giving back is part of you and how you want to spend a part of your college years, then Tulane is potentially an excellent choice. It is a difficult time in parts of New Orleans and I’m sure that more can always be done, but I think it could be a very exciting time to attend Tulane as you would truly have a chance to be part of the solution. Such an opportunity does not come along very often.</p>

<p>As for the OP and his/her desire for a good school with a party spirit, you should learn the expression, </p>

<p>"Laissez les bon temps rouler." (Let the good times roll)</p>

<p>That attitude is what makes New Orleans and Tulane a unique place. If possible, I encourage you to make a visit.</p>

37

<p>Hawkette, as always, respect your point of view, but things are not getting better for Tulane. It was just censured by the American Association of University Professors, an extraordinary measure for a major university, based on these findings: </p>

<p>"1) that the Tulane administration refused to present sufficient information to link specific faculty terminations with the university's financial problems </p>

<p>2) that by refusing to seek other suitable internal positions for terminated tenured faculty members, Tulane was violating its own procedures as well as AAUP standards </p>

<p>3) that in restructuring the faculties without faculty participation, Tulane violated faculty constitutions as well as AAUP standards </p>

<p>4) that the university does not appear to have distinguished tenured from untenured faculty members in decisions to terminate and that that lack of distinction, together with recent ambitious plans for various expenditures, puts in doubt the claims of financial exigency and the existence of the system of academic tenure at Tulane."</p>

<p>Tulane will likely tumble from its precarious perch as the 44th best university (tied with Yeshiva and UC-Irvine) on the USNWR ratings when they come out in August. </p>

<p>I like New Orleans fine, but it was a city without a significant future even pre-Katrina and now its only real industry, tourism, is on life-support. </p>

<p>I agree, visit.</p>

38

<p>Tim_ND08, </p>

<p>Yah athletics and schools spirit are huge to me, so I am looking into Indiana University and Washington State. And I like ASU as well, but I'm not sure if I want to apply there because WSU has sport management and a strong communications school with public relations/advertising while ASU doesn't, and it will be $30,000 (WUE Scholarship) cheaper than ASU, so I think WSU is the better option.</p>

<p>And I've looked into all of the schools you mentioned, but I prefer the ones I listed...and plus schools Texas, Florida, UVA, and Michigan are most likely too hard to get into.</p>

<p>But thanks for the help.</p>

<p>hawkette, </p>

<p>I've looked into Tulane again, but they suspended most of their sports teams while they are trying to rebuild, and I'm not a fan of southern culture so I've eliminated it from consideration. </p>

<p>thanks...</p>

39

<p>The OP would need really spectacular stats to get in UTexas out of state....</p>

40

<p>redcrimble,
I am familiar with the situation that you are describing. The school is in a tough position and had to make some tough choices that resulted in some faculty terminations of tenured professors. This never goes over well with the academics and it would only be surprising if the AAUP did not make a public move. I think both sides have legitimate positions and regardless, someone is going to be unhappy. I personally see it as short-term, and necessary, pain as the stewards of the school have a larger responsibility on their hands. </p>

<p>As for USNWR and their ranking, I expect you will be right although the school's Peer Assessment was never that high to begin with (3.4) nor was its Graduation & Retention rank (66th) . The question will be whether their efforts will have been enough to retain pre-existing students and attract new high quality matriculates and keep their selectivity at a respectable level. Friends who know more than me are positive on this, but I guess we will have to wait and see if this is just spin. </p>

<p>As for New Orleans, it was always a bit of a mess. A fun, chaotic mess, but still a mess and Katrina didn't help, although I expect tourism to return. The biggest problem continues to be leadership. Louisiana sometimes seems like a third-world country with the stuff that goes on there. I'm not as optimistic about that changing anytime soon. </p>

<p>SoCal,
Thanks for the update. Good luck wherever you end up.</p>