I’ll take the bait. I’m surprised someone hasn’t posted on this yet. Another case of police abusing their power. It’s especially disgusting seeing that some of the officers didn’t even care about being filmed. It shows that they feel as though they are invincible. And in many ways, they are! There’s no accountability.
http://www.cw.ua.edu/article/2015/11/video-shows-police-using-taser-on-ua-student
The girl mouthing off in the video seems to be at the root of the problem. When Police come to the door you go with them you don’t talk like that…
I think if she hadn’t been talking like that the guy would have probably gone outside with the officer and none of this would have happened.
Here are the videos of the incident:
http://www.cw.ua.edu/multimedia/9524
http://www.cw.ua.edu/multimedia/9525
http://www.cw.ua.edu/multimedia/9526
http://www.cw.ua.edu/multimedia/9527
http://www.cw.ua.edu/multimedia/9528
The first one has a good view of the use of the taser and night stick. Sad thing is that all of this could have been avoided if the students had cooperated with the officer instead of acting like they did. I wonder if they did not want the officer to enter the apartment because of drugs or other contraband.
The officer will likely be fired, and the students will end up with an arrest on their record. Not a good outcome for anyone.
We do not live in a police state. The police can only enter a home with an invitation (not given to them per the videos) or a search warrant based on probable cause.
This is a good reminder for students to be knowledgeable about their legal rights.
While it’s nice to say the student should have just complied and stepped outside, it was absolutely his legal right to refuse. If the police had cause, they then needed to present it to a court and obtain a search warrant to enter the home legally.
Police in this country can’t pull someone out of their home or enter because they feel like it.
(hopefully this link is OK here)
http://www.primermagazine.com/2013/learn/legally-speaking-police-are-at-the-door
Thank you, jrcsmom! I have shared your link with my college girl and sent it as a “joke” to family who are faculty at UA. Although I care about all human rights, I find the state’s disrespect for rights in one’s home especially upsetting
white kids
so no one will care.
this is not nearly as bad as a minority being offended at halloween attire.
It’s all over the national news, @soccerguy315.
Three police officers have been suspended with pay and the entire incident is under investigation:
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/11/taser_video_for_carol_in_tusca.html
You don’t get to just drag people out of their homes and beat them. You absolutely don’t just let the police into your house because they feel like it or go with them for no apparent reason. The girl who we hear in the video isn’t “mouthing off” she is asking for them to observe their rights. One of her primary points is, “Ask him if you’re being arrested or detained.” The point being, I imagine, that if you plan to haul someone out of their home to arrest them you need a reason and it can’t (in theory) be resisting arrest if they had no cause to arrest you in the first place.
More details here: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/alabama-police-filmed-pulling-student-from-apartment-using-taser/
The gal Caroline is a complete moron who needs to learn how to keep her mouth shut. She’s also a terrible amateur lawyer who got herself and two friends a stay in jail. Textbook case of how to turn a small issue into a big problem.
The cop was responding to a noise complaint at 3 am. Early on he asks the guy to step outside of the apartment so they can talk. They had no interest in entering the apartment. The cops were not trying to search the apartment. They don’t need a search warrant to gather evidence of the offense involved – disturbing the peace. Since that can be proven by hearing loud music late at night from a vantage point outside the apartment. Duh.
If the police decide to make an arrest, then they can use reasonable means to make the arrest. FYI, you don’t need a warrant to do an arrest. Duh.
The cops said the guy was under arrest. Again, all the chatter about search is irrelevant. The cops weren’t asking to search the apartment. They only entered in order to complete the arrest. Duh.
Caroline spends too much time watching TV cop shows. The smart thing to do is to step outside and shut the front door. And then have someone tell Caroline to shut the front door as well. Then you can choose to answer the cops’ questions or not.
“The point being, I imagine, that if you plan to haul someone out of their home to arrest them you need a reason and it can’t (in theory) be resisting arrest if they had no cause to arrest you in the first place.”
Nope.
Resisting arrest is an offense all by itself. Even if the reason for the arrest is questionable or weak.
northwesty you should read the link I posted above which was written by a lawyer
The police absolutely do need a warrant to enter a private home even to conduct an arrest unless they follow someone into a residence during a pursuit (“Duh.”)
Also a noise violation is not cause for arrest (“Duh”), so if that was the only complaint it would not justify even your assertion that they had the right to enter the apartment to complete an arrest as they had no reason to arrest anyone prior to going to the apartment (“Duh”)
I highly suggest you learn your legal rights in case you ever need to exercise them. I read a quote while I was looking into this yesterday that will stick with me for a long time - “if you aren’t aware of your rights and aren’t willing to stand up for them, it’s as if you never had them.”
Another thought I had yesterday is that most lawyers highly recommend that no one respond to questions or consent to searches from police without a warrant even if they are not guilty of anything because if they are then arrested or fined for anything, even unrelated to the initial interaction the consent makes the lawyers job more difficult.
It is possible that at least one of the students in the residence has a parent who is a lawyer who taught them how to respond.
Just received an email from UA:
^^wow, that is impressive @LucieTheLakie !
Every time I see “paid administrative leave” I wonder what I can do to get that. I could used a paid month sitting on a beach in Hawaii.
With YouTube, reddit, and other websites available, many college students understand their rights without having a lawyer parent. Most of my generation was taught to be compliant and do whatever the police tell you. It did not always go well either (a friend was raped in the back of a patrol car when she was 12), yet many feel it is still the only right way to deal with police. I would prefer my kids do exactly what these students did, stand up for their constitutionally guaranteed rights.
@soccerguy315 That was some mighty swift action taken on behalf of those white kids. 3 suspensions, a letter from the college president. I wonder if the reaction would have been the same if they had been black kids. That’s why we discuss these things more because often it is not the same.
Off the main topic… conversation in CC is aided by the ban on the 5 letter T word. I hope the use of the word “Duh” can be banned as well. It is generally disrespectful and patronizing, and doesn’t help debate at all.
I’m not a fan of banning words like the T word, or Duh, personally. People who resort to using those words usually don’t have much else to their argument. They’re word choices that say a lot about one’s personality as well.
Thanks but I’m good. Law degree.
That link doesn’t say anything about arrests. So it provides no advice on what to do if a cop is trying to arrest you.
What your link does recommend, is stepping outside your home and closing the door behind you. Which is what I said. That eliminates any chance of an unwarranted search of the home.
The kids voluntarily opened the door to the home and allowed the cops to stand in the open doorway the whole time while they ran their mouths. Guess what? Everything the cops see while standing there is a valid, warrant-free and legal search of the home. So the exact opposite of what you should do if you are concerned about a warrantless search.
Once the officer starts down the arrest path, the guy has to submit unless he fears for his life. Period. The cops couldn’t kick in a closed door to make an arrest without a warrant. But once the kids opened the door, the cops are going to be legal to follow the guy inside to complete the arrest. The cops don’t have to stop at the open doorway because they are deemed to be in “hot pursuit.”
Once the guy flees inside and resists, then he’s guilty of resisting arrest. Which is a standalone offense even if the basic charge turns out to be weak. Also, once the cops are inside to make an arrest, then they are going to be legal to do some searching of the inside of the apartment. Since a search incident to an arrest is an exception to the basic requirement of needing a warrant for a search.
So everything those kids did was 100% wrong as a legal matter. Any lawyer mom/dad will be shaking their head at the kids’ stupidity. They didn’t have to open the door but they did. They should have stepped outside, but did not. They should not have tried to resist and flee arrest, but they did.
The cops were wrong to escalate and used too much force. But their other actions regarding the visit and the arrest were likely legal. They did not need a warrant in those circumstances.
As a legal and practical matter, the kids are primarily at fault for this. Chatty Caroline should have shut up.