<p>Hi, I am the mother of 17 yr. old twin sons. We're been in NZ (from Calif.) for 15 yrs. I separated from their NZ father 10 yrs ago and he has contributed next to nothing for their maintanence since then. As a solo mum with no family to help out I had to go on the "dole" until I could re-train as an English as a Second Language teacher. I work part time and have been able to just survive the last 10 yrs. The economic situation here has changed for the worse and over the last year prices on all the basics(food, property tax, electricity,petrol of course and mortgage rates) have risen sharply. I have come to the conclusion that I must uproot and work a few years where I can earn a lot more money and in a place where I will be able to save most of what I earn. I have chosen Saudi with my eyes wide open as I will not be able to do anything outside of a compound anyway and that suits me as I am starting a distance Master's programme. I know this is a long story, mostly about me, but thanks for bearing with me....my need now is to see if I can get my sons a full scholarship back in the States. according to the school system here(which is very hard to figure out) they have one more year of high school left to do but as it is considered a scholarship yr (whatever that means) and isn't mandatory the do have the option of going to Univ now. Our academic yr. starts in Feb. 2008 and at this point they will show up and start the school yr as I continue to search for jobs in the Gulf. I would like to inform myself about the US system. I've been out of the country for a long time and I got my degree in the 80s...Can anyone help me figure out how to and if I can swing full scholarships for my boys who have dual citizenship. Thanks in advance. We would be considered expatriates. Not in the sense that we are not patriotic. The boys are very interested in American politics and are closely following the election.</p>
<p>wading in…</p>
<p>I really don’t think anyone can answer your questions as you have posted them, but here is some background information which might help. However, the bottom line is that I think your twins would be better off staying in NZ while you are in Saudi. </p>
<p>US “scholarships” come in two varieties. The first is financial aid, which is based primarily on income. Some colleges–mostly public–only use the FAFSA form as a basis. Others, especially top privates, also require the PROFILE form. Both are driven primarily by income, so if you are going to make a healthy chunk of change in SA, your boys may not get good aid. Do note that most PROFILE schools will require financial information from their father. Some don’t care if he has paid or not–if he has the money to do so, financial aid is calculated based on what he CAN contribute, not what he DOES contribute. </p>
<p>Try looking at [FinAid</a>! Financial Aid, College Scholarships and Student Loans](<a href=“http://www.finaid.org%5DFinAid”>http://www.finaid.org). for a better explanation. Look especially at the link for Financial Aid Applications, which will let you see what the FAFSA is like. </p>
<p>There are also merit scholarships, which, by and large, are geared to attract good students to somewhat less selective colleges than they might otherwise attend. Without some sense of grades and scores on standardized tests, nobody can tell you if your sons might be eligible and, if so, at which schools. </p>
<p>I assume that you have not paid any state income tax to any US state. With some exceptions for US military personnel, that usually means your sons must pay out of state tuition at public universities in EVERY state. </p>
<p>If you have not paid US federal income taxes during your absence, you have will great difficulty getting financial aid for your sons, as fin aid forms are based on federal income tax forms. My hunch–I’m not an expert–is that if your sons are enrolled in US schools, you are going to have to pay US income taxes on your income in SA for them to have ANY chance at fin aid as US citizens. There may be some problems too if you have not paid US income taxes while living in NZ. </p>
<p>If they apply as NZ nationals, as a GENERAL rule, it will be harder to get in and harder to get financial aid. (Fin aid at most US schools is more generous for US citizens and often for Canadian citizens than for other internationals.) </p>
<p>Even in state tuirtion rates for good public Us in the US are MUCH, MUCH, add a few more muches, higher than those at NZ schools like Auckland or Massey.</p>
<p>Yes, your story is complicated, and just because they are US citizens, they are not entitled to full scholarships. Aid for your boys might be better if based on merit, but you provided no info on their grades, standardized test scores, etc. Had you returned to the states and things had been a hardship here, but you were also contributing to local and federal taxes, your plight might have been easier. I think we will need more info about their scholastic abilities to be of more help to you.</p>
<p>Also, while the academic year begins Feb 1 in NZ, the academic year begins in late August/early September in the US. If your kidlets are applying for admission in February 2008, they have probably missed most admission deadlines. The winter terms begin in January. Schools on quarters or trimesters will have a spring term beginning in late March or so. BUT I would venture to say that applying for admissions in the fall is the best time.</p>
<p>Now…regarding fall admissions. It’s even getting on the late side for fall 2008 admissions. You will have to look at the school websites to see which schools have admission deadlines that are after the end of January (thinking it will take that long to get things completed and sent off). There are thousands of colleges in the U.S. </p>
<p>I honestly don’t know what to tell you about your financial aid situation. I will say…there are NOT a lot of full pay scholarships…period. Your situation is very unique and something that really is complicated by the fact that you don’t live here, but your kids are citizens. Still…you would need to complete any finaid applications ASAP for fall 2008 admissions.</p>
<p>I have to say…from the limited information you have provided, it might be good for your twins to DO that one more year and have this process not rushed. Are there any higher education options for them in NZ? Do you have relatives in the states where your guys could live, work, and maybe attend a community college?</p>
<p>What about you moving back to the states and establishing residency here? If you move to the state that has a public u you all like, the kids can go to high school here for one more year, and you will be able to get instate tuition. With a low income, and two in school, your kids may be eligible for some financial aid.</p>
<p>It is actually incorrect that you need to be residing in the US to take advantage of financial aid from private US colleges. If your sons are US citizens they will treated exacty as US residents for both admission and financial aid, merit or need based. The only question is whether they may qualify for student loans subsidized by the US Government. Since your current income is apparently quite low, your sons would probably qualify for substantial need based aid. It is completely irrelevant at this time what you may actually earn in Saudi Arabia in the future. Nobody calculates aid based on future income. </p>
<p>On the other hand the most generous financial aid packages typically come from the most selective colleges. You have not provided any information about your sons academic performance, so it is hard to tell where they may have a shot at admission. If they are on an IB (international baccalaureate) program, it would be definite plus as it is well regarded in the US. </p>
<p>Assuming they would be admissible to some of the more selective colleges, they may actually have a slight advantage as expats. I lived in Paris for many years and several of our expat friends were quite successful getting their kids accepted at top US colleges who welcomed a diverse and international applicant base. New Zeland also ranks very high internationally in secondary education which also helps. </p>
<p>At this point you have largely missed the deadlines for fall admission for most selective schools in the US unless you rush an application within the next few days. You could always supply recommendations and transcripts later,but unless you get the applications on file, your sons would have to wait another year and transfer after their first year in NZ. You really have litte to lose by applying but time is very short. All applications are electronic so there no need to send anything by mail at this time.</p>
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<p>This is true. BUT the time for applying for most of the competitive (full) merit scholarships has come and gone for fall, 2008. I think it will be hard to find a school that will pay ALL of the college expenses for these students. There are not a lot of full pay scholarships out there…period. And regarding need based aid…as noted above, many of the schools that meet full need are also highly competitive…oh, and their deadlines for admission are rapidly approaching for FALL 2008. This OP was looking for something in Feb 2008. The competitive scholarship deadlines for most flagship state university programs has gone by (many are December 1 priority applications for consideration of these “full scholarships”). </p>
<p>BUT having said that, the OP can look at college websites to determine which schools have later deadlines and still consider students for merit and need based aid. Also, the OP can read the common data sets for colleges to get a sense of the type and %age of aid schools typically award students.</p>
<p>I hadn’t thought about the OP relocating to the U.S…but this option is certainly one that could be considered. In the end, her twins won’t be so far from a parent…in case they need some help. AND if they have family in the states, perhaps these folks can lend a hand also.</p>
<p>"It is actually incorrect that you need to be residing in the US to take advantage of financial aid from private US colleges. "</p>
<p>Nobody said you did. If this comment was in response to my post, I guess I wasn’t clear enough. The IRS has this odd idea that Americans who live overseas should pay taxes. I assume your ex-pat friends in Paris did so. Now, maybe the OP did too or maybe the OP’s income is so low that she didn’t need to file–but I doubt it. If she hasn’t filed, it’s going to be very hard to fill out the FAFSA. That’s all I pointed out–she can look at the forms on the site I linked. </p>
<p>"It is completely irrelevant at this time what you may actually earn in Saudi Arabia in the future. Nobody calculates aid based on future income. "</p>
<p>HUH? She is talking about working in Saudi Arabia while her kids are in college. Financial aid forms are filled out every year. It’s not going to do much good to get need based financial aid for the kids based on current income for freshman year and then lose it for subsequent years. Thus, I don’t think this is “completely irrelevant.” </p>
<p>Now, maybe saral has posted less than the whole story…but kids in NZ do not take SATs or ACTs or SAT IIs or APs , so it is unlikely her sons have done so. If not, the idea that these two boys can just slap together applications–while NZ schools are closed for summer vacation, no less, is --well, unrealistic. </p>
<p>Their best option is to continue in high school in NZ this coming February and aim for admission for the Fall of 2009. It will be hard enough to do that. </p>
<p>Since the boys have dual citizenship, I assume they can attend Auckland, Massey, or one of the other universities in NZ. These are cheaper than US schools and there is some merit money available.</p>
<p>My point was the FAFSA is not a requirement for financial aid from most private US colleges. The OP can fill out a PROFILE and it does not matter whether the applicant’s parents paid any taxes in the US.</p>
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<p>I’m not sure this is true. Most schools that I know of that use the Profile also require the FAFSA.</p>
<p>Both of my kids attend(ed) private universities for undergraduate school. Both schools required BOTH the FAFSA and the Profile for consideration of ALL financial aid (including merit awards). </p>
<p>The only way to know what a school REQUIRES and by when is to read that school’s website. </p>
<p>I can’t speak for ALL private schools, but I do know some finaid officers at a couple. They require the Profile AND the FAFSA. The FAFSA is required because if a student is eligible for federal funds, many schools will disperse those before they dip into their own institutional monies. This helps them spread their institutional money around to more folks who might not be eligible for federal money (e.g. Pell grants).</p>
<p>“My point was the FAFSA is not a requirement for financial aid from most private US colleges. The OP can fill out a PROFILE and it does not matter whether the applicant’s parents paid any taxes in the US.”</p>
<p>Do you have a source for this statement? I don’t claim to have done a complete survey..and I admit that I have found some schools that don’t require the FAFSA–however, they DO require certified copies of a FEDERAL TAX RETURN from any US citizen. I haven’t found ANY schools that award fin aid to US citizens without EITHER a FAFSA or a certified copy of a federal income tax return. </p>
<p>I’m always willing to learn something new though–and if you actually do know that “most” private colleges will award fin aid without requiring either a FAFSA OR a certified copy of the parents’ federal income tax return, please do post a source for this information.</p>
<p>For the vast majority of the expat US parents I am familiar with from a large international high school outside of Paris, (which sends dozens of kids to US colleges very year) the applicants were asked to fill in the “international aid forms” as opposed to the forms for US residents. Most of them supplied no FAFSAs as they had stopped filing US tax forms altogether. They were asked to provide verification of income based on translated french income tax forms and list of assets. Even if US tax forms were available for some, they could not serve as a basis for aid awards because the income and AGI were essentially meaningless. The financial aid office evaluated the applicants’ needs using the same methodology as it does for small business owners for whom individual income tax forms are largely useless. It should be noted that an increasing amount of colleges award aid to internationals, a few on the same terms as US residents.</p>
<p>I do know that many US colleges give financial aid to internationals and about two dozen or so are need-blind for internationals. (You will note that my prior message said that the twins had the option of aplying as NZ citizens, but in most cases that makes it harder to get in.) </p>
<p>However, it was also my understanding that all but the very limited number of US colleges which have eliminated loans as part of a student’s fin aid package require students to take federal loans, before using institutional funds. (See post 10.) My understanding was also that the feds will not dispense fed loans without the FAFSA OR some proof that the person (if over 24) or his parents (if under 24) has paid US income tax and/or was not required to do so legally, e.g., because of low income. </p>
<p>If in fact, “most” private colleges are willing to give ex-pats who haven’t paid US taxes–in defiance of the law–aid packages in which the institution makes up the amount of $ that could have been obtained from federal loans if the person or parents had complied with US laws, I’ve really, really surprised.</p>
<p>That doesn’t mean you aren’t right–just that I find it hard to believe that “most” privat colleges would do this.</p>
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<p>I don’t know where that comes from. Nobody is obligated to take on any federal loans, US resident or not. Applicants can contribute their EFC from whatever source they wish. </p>
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In most countries I know (certainly throughout Europe) , tax rates are significantly higher than in the US, so non-resident US citizens who do not file US tax forms actually do not owe any back taxes as they get full credit for the taxes they pay in their country of residence. Many US citizens permanently residing abroad with no intention of returning simply stop filing US forms because of the complexity of the process, having to hire an accountant, to find out in the end that they owe nothing. </p>
<p>My main point is that there is no legal requirement for a non US resident to file a FAFSA or US tax forms to be eligible for institutional aid (as opposed to Federal aid). For schools that do not meet full need, the applicant may possibly get less aid than a similarly situated US applicant if he could have been eligible for Federal aid, but it certainly won’t act as a bar to financial aid altogether as some seem to imply.</p>
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<p>If you are offered Stafford and/or Perkins Loans as part of your finaid package, they are NOT part of your EFC. Your EFC is what YOUR FAMILY is expected to contribute, not the college federal loan programs that are part of your finaid package. COA minus EFC equals finaid, or finaid and gap. </p>
<p>But as you say…you are not obligated to TAKE the loan. If you don’t take the loan offered to you, you would have to get those funds from elsewhere.</p>
<p>I had trouble finding anything definitive on-line, but this is the closest I came:
[American</a> Colleges And Universities Info .com - Article: Applying For Financial Aid in the Americas](<a href=“CollegeXpress for International Students”>CollegeXpress for International Students)</p>
<p>Scroll down to the part for US citizens. It appears that, while failure to pay US taxes isn’t the obstacle I thought it was, US citizens ARE usually required to fill out a FAFSA and take federal loans as part of their aid packages in the same way as other American students who reside in the US.</p>
<p>Obviously, though, the important lesson from all this is that the OP needs to contact a fin aid officer at each US institution of higher learning where her sons apply to get more definitive information.</p>
<p>And again, IMO, the OP needs to understand that if she does get a high paying job in Saudi Arabia while her sons are in college, this will almost certainly result in lower need-based aid in subsequent years.</p>
<p>“The IRS has this odd idea that Americans who live overseas should pay taxes”</p>
<p>Not true. They are only required to file a return, not to pay tax if they don’t owe any. As someone else said previously: taxes in some other countries are higher. The US does not double tax. An expat can exclude some of their income earned in foreign countries or take a tax credit for taxes paid to other countries.</p>
<p>I’m not sure about this…but I think these NZ kiddos do need a SS number to file the FAFSA for finaid consideration. If they don’t have that, they might want to get it ASAP. Without a SS number, I think the FAFSA will not be processed.</p>
<p>Where do your boys want to spend their lives? If you are in Saudi, would they have a better home base in the US or New Zealand? </p>
<p>I ask, because I’ve known some expat kids who have a harder transition to school in this country than the average college freshman. Picking up the nuances of the culture as well as adjusting to college can be a lot at once. Different than being an exchange student, as you’re suppose to be different if on exchange, if American, but not feeling like one, well, it’s a another issue. Great if that is what they want and have the energy and personalities to make a go of it, harder if they will feel uprooted and without a home base.</p>
<p>There is no requirement that the parent(s) pay U.S. Federal income tax in order for their child to receive Federal Financial aid. The only requirement is that the student is a U.S. citizen and have a valid social security number. You must, however, show all earned income and any taxes paid to a foreign government on the FAFSA (see: [Completing</a> the FAFSA 07-08/The Application Questions(32-47)](<a href=“http://www.studentaid.ed.gov/students/publications/completing_fafsa/2007_2008/ques3.html]Completing”>http://www.studentaid.ed.gov/students/publications/completing_fafsa/2007_2008/ques3.html))</p>
<p>I would suggest that the original poster also see if she can work with a member of the Overseas Association for College Admissions Counseling, as they would be familiar with the in’s and out’s of these sorts of questions, and can help advise her and her children on US application procedures. You can get a list of OCAC members by contacting them through: [::</a> OACAC](<a href=“http://www.oacac.com/]::”>http://www.oacac.com/)</p>