<p>I am currently in my last year at an independent school in the UK and have been accepted to read PPE at Magdalen College, Oxford. I am also applying (Regular decision) to HYP and Columbia, and am curious to find out what you think my chances are at these schools (my first question). My SAT I scores are: Math 740, Critical reading 760 and Writing 750. My SAT scores are Literature 780, Math I 730 and World History and Math I retake Pending, although I expect about 740 and 750 respectively. My AS results (In Mathematics, History, Economics, Critical Thinking and French) were AAAAB and my predicted A2 grades (In Mathematics, Economics, History and Latin) are AAAA. So far, so good, I think, but having read the horror stories on this forum of people with 800s and 4.0 GPAs being rejected, I am not sure whether I have a real 'hook'. My main ECs are Community Service, in which I have received an 'Envision 100-hour award,' trap shooting, in which I have won several minor competitions and stage managing a play approximately once a term for the last couple of years. My other principal interest outside socialising, clubbing etc is stock market speculation (event-driven and risk arbitrage if you're interested) and I have made several thousand dollars from about $800 in a couple of years, as well as spending 6 weeks doing work experience at the UK branch of Caxton LLC the hedge-fund. Finally my essays are adequate, I think, but it is difficult to tell due to the more academic basis of UK applications. Sorry to have written so much here, but I wanted to give a general overview of my application.<br>
My second question is primarily for people who have experience of both UK and US higher education systems. I would like to know what you think I should do in the event that I recieve offers from H, Y, P or Columbia. My main attraction to Oxford is the tutorial system, and I am not so bothered about its facilities etc not being up to Ivy League standards. Finally two considerations. First I intend to attend graduate school, and possibly work in the US and second US fees are not really a consideration for me.<br>
My thanks in advance for your comments.</p>
<p>PPE stands for Philosophy, Politics and Economics by the way.</p>
<p>Hey! I'm not too sure about your chances at those schools because it's a crap shoot for everyone, but I'd say they are very good! Though note that 100 community service hours might be viewed at as weak; many applicants have like 500 hours! </p>
<p>Based on my knowledge of both systems (I applied to the UK and am a member of the Student Room) I'd say any of those schools would be an excellent choice. Oxford has excellent name recognition in the US; it is as well known as Harvard, I'd say. If you chose Oxford it probably wouldn't hurt your chances of eventually getting a job and living over here because Americans are very impressed with Oxford on the whole. The tutorial system I believe would give you a better education because a lot of ivy league unis have huge lecture classes taught by TAs in first and second year, and you'd never ever get that kind of individual attention even in upper years! Also, grad school would be no problem; if students from St. Andrews go on to study at the Ivy Leauge for grad., I'd say coming from Oxford is a bit of a slam dunk.</p>
<p>However, you get a whole different experience from studying aboard and in a way this is an education in itself. (That's why I'm going to the UK!)</p>
<p>Congrats on your Oxford offer, btw!</p>
<p>Thanks for your advice, it is basically in line with what I've been hearing, that even with their tens of billion dollar endowments the Ivy League don't provide the same undergraduate experience as cash-strapped Oxbridge. (I know this might be a different matter for Nat Sci, Medicine etc.) Have you heard from any UK unis yet by the way? What are you applying for?</p>
<p>i didn't apply to the uk but just about everyone from here does. congrats on getting into oxford btw!</p>
<p>i ended up choosing us, mainly because its a different experience altogether. plus i didnt really fancy the poor hungry student/tamping in £s for every heaterhour etc business, plus the weather (i live in sunny dubai). I know it's a stereotype of course but uk studentlife didn't personally appeal to me at all. but this is your choice/preferance i guess.</p>
<p>the advantage of the us system i reckon though, is firstly,the flexibility - not haveing to declare your major/concentration for the first two years, which gives you time to shop around. there's no way I could decide what I really want to do for at least the next few years of my life in time for the ucas apps. even once you've chosen it, it's a lot more focused in the uk, whereas in the us only about 1/3 of your courses will actually be related with your major. I personally like this approach - i felt so constricted first at gcse then at a level with having to restrict myself to jsut a handful of things. again though this is personal choice.</p>
<p>and the real merit is the employability factor. ie you graduate from oxbridge, yeah people are impressed but you still have to dog it out same as most people when you start work. us however, is a lot more geared towards career and employment, and especially at a top end school like the ones you're considering, you get all sorts of doors open in the firm of brilliant internships, jobs post graduation, connections. and the huge alumni networks are an amazing networkign thing - which is basically what the world runs on now. ie with columbia, where i got in ed, i got made a global scholaras well which provides crazy opportunities of this kind.</p>
<p>another thing for me was that i wouldn't get home status so it's not supercheap (even with th e fee increase) in the uk; for what youpay i reckon the us is a better value for money. I'm planning to work for a bit before grad school, so if you'replanning to go straight from undergrad to postgrad maybe half of what i jsut said coudl go out of the window. uk's also a year shorter, but i guess you knew that. you can get credits for a levels 9same as ap/ib) in msot colleges as well so i guess it evens out a bit, yup.</p>
<p>and scuse the terrible spelling please.</p>
<p>the often repeated "oxbridge has less money" idea is false. Oxbridge both have endowments as large as columbia, but also receive huge amounts of money from the state. If you look at ox/cam you will find that their facilities are top notch - in fact cambridge has a higher research spending than any us school i believe. while us grad might be slightly better, the tutorial system and ugrad focus mean that oxbr ugrad is much better in my opinion - especially for politics (ox) and science (cam).</p>
<p>CutxPaste I appreciate many of your points but in the UK, if you've been taught well, A-Level courses are effectively the equivalent of core curriculum at most US schools, and thus the flexibility you talk about is already inherent in the secondary system. Many people, of course, aren't taught well, and its here that courses like PPE, SPS or other joint courses come into their own in broadening a degree focus. As for your second point about the networking potential of US degrees you need to bear in mind that London is as big a financial centre, in terms of investment banks, hedge funds and law firms, as New York and many of the top jobs are occupied by Oxbridge graduates. Anyway it seems to me that the alumni networks provided by any school are only going to get you internships, interviews, etc. After that what's most important is showing that you are bright and motivated. Your school's reputation may oil the wheel's but going to HYP over Oxbridge is hardly going to make or break your career.</p>
<p>Sargon your point about Oxridge endowments is technically correct, but you must remember that the major part of the endowment is spread among only a handful of colleges, and the money that the universities receive from the government is still not equivalent to the full fees received by most Ivy League colleges. If the colleges are as flush with money as you suggest, then one wonders why the Oxbridge academics are paid only a pittance in comparison to the US and why most colleges run a budget deficit every year. Mismanagement is part of it but at the bottom line there is still a gap between costs and revenues which top-up fees will not fill. The other distinction to be made is between the illiquid, land and property based and low yielding assets that make up Oxbridge endowments and the huge, and well managed, investment portfolios maintained by major US schools.</p>
<p>but people dont pay full fees most get fin aid which means it prob comes out the same. not saying us bad, id prefer ugrad uk though - if you know what you want to do</p>
<p>I'm pretty much (80% sure) sure I'll be studying at St. Andrews. I've been accepted already and am really excited (an excellent school for international relations I hear). I keep get mixed reports about the prestige of St. Andrews, some people say it's the most over-rated uni ever, others say it's really good... but honestly, I have never really cared that much about prestige anyway. I think that I would learn so much just from the experience and I'm already in love with the campus! Although maybe I don't care that much about prestige because I couldn't get into Ivys or Oxbridge anyway...</p>
<p>The stuff about the employability factor at a US school is true. The networking at US schools is really, really good, and it would definitely help you in getting a job... internships and connections are super important and emphasized a lot more at US schools. But at the same time, what you say is true; it all comes down to your own determination and intelligence and anyone from anywhere can get the job if they are bright enough. Personally, if you know what you want to study, I'd choose Oxbridge over the Ivy League any day. You'll be studying a lot where ever you go, but the one thing I'd say in favor of Ivies is that you'd probably have a better social life. People are hard core academics at both places, but based on my observation I think people at in the US tend to let go a little more. There would probably be more organized activities at the Ivy League, and more opportunities to get involved in sports, choir, drama, ect. I know someone from the US who went to Oxford, and she's a bit overwhemled by the rigidness of academic life. She's studying history and tutorials are intense. Of course she was not expecting easy street, but still was overwhelmed all the same.</p>
<p>Congratulations. St. Andrew's IR department is up there in the UK, maybe internationally. As far as I know only Cardiff's is supposed to be on the same level.</p>
<p>Oxford for undergrad, any day of the week. Almost a no brainer to be honest. For grad, HYP and Oxbridge are probably equal.</p>
<p>Actually, I don;t know about that. If you wanna get into a good grad school, the prestige of your undergrad college will prolly be a factor</p>
<p>Just to chime in, definitely do Oxford undergraduate and then US graduate (thats what I'm doing). I just think in terms of individual attention etc. Oxford is a lot better and the financial resources of the good US universities will just be a lot more valuable to you at postgraduate level. Also, Oxford is gorgeous and Magdalen especially so, and even if money is not a massive consideration you might as well save it and then use it for US graduate school.</p>
<p>I really couldn't tell you a thing about your chances, but I would say that if the tutorial system is what really appeals to you about Oxford then you should definitely go there over HYPC. I turned down Oxford and ended up at Penn, and I still have occasional moments where I wonder if I did the right thing passing up the tutorial system (and I'm graduating in May!) You'll get a fine education either way, and plenty of prestige too, but you will have big lecture classes, especially if you're interested in popular fields of study like econ. and poli. sci.</p>
<p>Best of luck with your other apps though - with a Magdalen acceptance you're pretty much set whatever you end up doing.</p>
<p>Cool grender! I am an american, but i applied to modern history & politics at magdalen! I haven't heard whether or not i have been accepted yet... i hope that isn't a bad sign :(. Anyway, maybe this is just my perspective as an american, but i would second what everyone else is saying about doing undergrad at oxford... I know Oxford is considered very very prestigious here, and i don't you will get as in-depth an education in your subject at an american university because of distributional requirements, etc.</p>
<p>Congrats on oxford! (i am really jealous :P)</p>
<p>Thankyou for all the comments, after consideration I think I will take up Oxford's offer, but it will be interesting to see what the US schools make of me. Let me know how your application goes. With luck we might come across each other in Oxford.</p>