<p>My S is a high school sophomore and is in a group of students that are in a specialized math, technology, and engineering curriculum at his school. They take all the normal high school courses but most of their electives focus on STEM-type classes. Each student had to go through an application process in the 8th grade in order to be accepted in this program. </p>
<p>He is an excellent student, enjoys challenges, and really has a great time in all his classes but, here's the catch - this particular academic curriculum only allows two years of a foreign language. With all the mandated classes, there isn't enough time in a school day over the course of four years to allow for more than two years. When we allowed him to apply for this STEM group, we didn't realize that colleges really wanted four years of foreign language. When we discovered this fact, we did approach the leaders of this group and we couldn't change their minds about finding a way to scoot in another year or two of foreign language in their program. </p>
<p>So now we are at a crossroads. Our son has to decide in the next few weeks what his course load will be for next year. He is fortunate to attend a school with great counselors who are willing to work with us on most issues and his counselor wants to meet with my son and me to discuss our concerns about only having two years of a foreign language.</p>
<p>We are scheduling a meeting, but I would like to be prepared about my Ss options. Any advice that you have to offer would be greatly appreciated. Here are our options as of now </p>
<ol>
<li> The school suggested we skip his fourth year of science so that he can use that year as his 3rd year of foreign language. S would like to avoid this option.</li>
<li> An option would be to take it at a community college. I checked with the local ones, they do not offer his foreign language in the summer. During the regular school year, they only offer one class in it and it is during the day when he is taking his regular classes.</li>
<li> He could quit this STEM academy and take foreign language as his elective the next two years. It is not easy to opt out of this program. Really not easy, but if need be, I can convince the administration to allow it. My S would be sad to leave it. He has made good friends in it, but he understands that sometimes there are bigger priorities.</li>
<li> Ive heard people talk about online courses. Would it make sense (from a college admissions standpoint) to take an online course and then self study for the AP test? Im not familiar with online courses or if college admission departments care about them. I don't know if this would make up for not taking the courses in school. If this seems like a doable option, which courses are best?</li>
</ol>
<p>Am I making too big of a deal about only having two years of foreign language? I get the feeling from the powers-that-be in this program that they think Im making too big of a deal about this. All the other parents seem okay with it. As my Ss class is the first class in this program, the school and STEM board of directors have not experienced the college application process with this particular curriculum, and I dont want my son to have his college options limited because of this. Thank you in advance for any suggestions!</p>
<p>What would concern me most is that the STEM program you describe is a work-in-progress, possibly developed by educators who with the best of intentions are experimenting with the curriculum. While experimentation has merit in poorly performing schools, and with poorly motivated students, it is not clear why it is necessary with a motivated and bright student.</p>
<p>Conventional wisdom is that a core course curriculum would allow 4 years of the same foreign language. This wisdom also stresses a balance between core courses in english, history, lab science and math – in addition to foreign language. You would see it in operation at the very best college preparatory high schools in the United States. These are schools that produce some of the best prepared students for the rigors of college.</p>
<p>Without more specifics regarding the complete STEM curriculum it is difficult to recommend a course of action.</p>
<p>You are right, it’s complicated. You are also right, you are being told in no uncertain terms the foreign language is not as valuable as the rest of his selective curriculum. It is frustrating. We are facing similar decisions with our youngest son in a STEM program where graduation requirements and credits needed to sit for certifications have increased. There is no way the kids can complete their STEM degree, four years in core subjects, and foreign language. Breath a word about four years and you’re laughed out of the room. </p>
<p>It is our opinion as parents that foreign language is important to a secondary education, just as four years in math, English, science, and social studies. If the student is enjoying foreign language and doing well, I think four years is optimal for a student aiming at top schools. Optimal doesn’t always work out. I do not think the AP test is that important. Great if you have it. I wouldn’t loose sleep over that part. Yes, it serves as an opt out with credit, but right now your primary focus is getting beyond two years. </p>
<p>I would look at other required general Ed classes that you student might be able to take online. Foreign language wouldn’t be my first choice for that. Our students can take PE online over summer break to open a block. No calk walk, all your activity has to be recorded by a coach or trainer, and tests etc are online, but it’s out of the way. Kids also tend to pick up their non AP classes online. These are the classes they are not as concerned about having close interaction with an instructor. Your county may offer this. </p>
<p>Don’t expect the administration to be too understanding of your desire to have your student study beyond two years. Their focus is STEM. You are the parent and don’t need their approval, you simply need to know what his scheduling options are. If he can take one class over the summer or online and get a third year of foreign language, then decides he doesn’t want to jump through the hoops again, he has three years as opposed to two…that is a big difference. </p>
<p>Take a look at the schools your S may be interested in, but my S applied to a number of CS/Engineering programs, and only one wanted more than 2 years of foreign language. For example:</p>
<p>If your S will likely be applying to more “well rounded” schools including the Ivy League, more years of foreign language will probably be expected</p>
<p>(My S took French 1 in middle school and French 2 & 3 in HS; some colleges may count that as 3 years, but I think most just count it as two.) He tried to take French 4 in both Junior and Senior year but it conflicted with other classes that were more important to him (his AP sciences). Even schools that want 3-4 years will often accept a good explanation for why a student doesn’t have it. </p>
<p>Online classes are non-optimal for foreign languages, where live practice speaking and listening (and having your accent corrected) are important. A better option if it can fit your S’s schedule is a college class or some kind of summer program. </p>
<p>What is in the high school curriculum that causes foreign language beyond two years’ worth to be crowded out?</p>
<p>Wouldn’t a typical academic high school curriculum each year have:</p>
<p>1 Math
1 Science
1 English
1 History and/or Social Studies
1 Foreign Language
1 Physical Education
1 Elective or other requirements (typically one semester or one year high school requirements like art, health/sex/drugs, civics, etc. end up here some of the years)</p>
<p>Of course, students who finish the math or foreign language sequences before senior year would replace them with electives in senior year.</p>
<p>But it does not seem like a typical academic high school curriculum would be of any particular disadvantage in applying to universities intending to do a science or engineering major. Or are honors / AP / advanced versions of math and science courses only available to students in the special program, but not other students?</p>
<p>My son is a 3-year graduate and couldn’t fit 2 years of a language into his schedule without giving up important AP classes, most of which are only taught during one period each year. We opted to take his foreign language requirement online through the University of Missouri, which has a fully-accredited high school curriculum. Some, if not all, of these language classes are considered “gifted” level, which translate to Honors level, an important consideration if you are concerned with a weighted GPA affecting class rank. French, German, Latin and Spanish are available for 2-3 years.</p>
<p>I should note that my son is taking German because I am fluent in it and can help him with pronunciation. It might be helpful to have a fluent speaker available, unless it’s Year 3 of a sequence, in which case your son should already have enough experience with pronunciation to do well. (The midterm and final is proctored, usually at one’s school, and a portion of the test is to listen to the recorded passage, which they send on CD or tape, and transcribe it or answer the questions from 4 possible choices.)</p>
<p>I didn’t read everything, but I must say, don’t take a third year and not a fourth. I only took three years of french in high school and it did nothing coming to college. I still had to take a year to fulfill my language requirement, and I would have anyway because of my major (Classics.) If you can explain why he couldn’t take four years it was fine.</p>
<p>I really identify with you and your situation! For a variety of reasons, my D has an atypical senior year schedule. She doesn’t have a social studies class or a foreign language but has several difficult AP or post-AP math and science classes plus AP English Lit. She had already taken all the AP social studies classes offered (taking two in one year) and she had taken her language through level 4 but fitting AP in was difficult. We went over her senior schedule with representatives of two colleges who stressed the importance of my D or the GC explaining her schedule on her application. My concern is that a harried admissions officer will not fully understand the situation, and I wish my D hadn’t had to take up valuable application space (in the “additional information” section of the common app) explaining the situation. </p>
<p>In your case, I would be particularly frustrated that the administration seems to not be listening to your concerns. The other parents may be okay with the situation because they aren’t familiar with college requirements or because they backed down when the administration pooh-poohed their concerns. Will the GC support your son when it comes time to explain to colleges that he was not allowed to take four years of a foreign language?</p>
<p>Both of my kids attend (or attended) a performing arts magnet. There was no room in the curriculum for the 3rd or 4th year of a language. Fortunately, both of them also took a foreign language in junior high. Older D had no admission issues from any university (top tier but not Ivy) for theatre. It probably depends on what you intend to study in college. I would take a look at the colleges that your son intends to apply to - also, you can explain the foreign language issue on the college application.</p>
<p>Our High School only offers Spanish 1 and 2. That’s it. S only took Spanish 1 because he had to choose between Chemistry 1 and Spanish 2 - both only offered once a day at the same time. He obviously chose Chemistry. When filling out his college applications, we made a note of the scheduling conflict and why he only had 1 year of foreign language. For us, it didn’t matter, he was still accepted at the places he wanted.</p>
<p>Our core curriculum is math, english, science, and history. They have other requirements like fine arts, government, physical education, etc in order to graduate, but the emphasis is on the core subjects.</p>
<p>I think your son will be fine, the other classes he’s taken and his grades in them will be more impressive to the admissions offices.</p>
<p>If your high school doesn’t offer a third year of the foreign language I think you will get some forgiveness on that account even from schools that really expect three years and prefer four. </p>
<p>That said, I think it’s a terrible rule and you should do your best to get it changed (mobilize other parents) and to find alternatives. (Online courses, summer immersion or intensive programs).</p>
<p>In our state we have an opportunity to choose our high schools. My son chose to go to the high school that was more technical (math/science) and chose the Project Lead the Way curriculum. This high school offers no language courses, but you could take these at the comprehensive high school if wanted. This was not easy as the PLTW curriculum and the required hs curriculum (4 years of the 4 main subjects) does not leave time for many other electives. Fortunately with taking PE in summer school for 2 years, he was able to fit in 3 years of Spanish. Many of his school friends on the same path did not have any language or only 1 year. When applying to a school that required language, the counselor wrote a note that language was not available in the school. None of the kids got in Ivy League schools (I don’t think any applied for these) but they all got in the engineering schools of their choice because of the PLTW engineering (stem) courses that they took. I really think the two years your child has would satisfy most colleges especially when they look at the other courses taken.</p>
<p>If you would like to try to fit in language over the summer, you should check whether your school will give credit for the high school credit session (4 weeks long) at Concordia Language Villages. </p>
<p>My daughter has attended both 2 week camps and the 4 week high school credit session and really loves it.</p>
<p>We are dealing with the same thing with out HS soph who is doing PTLW. Our current solution is he will self study with a tutor Latin 2 this summer (his Latin 1 teachers idea - not on our radar until she suggested it) and take American History at the CC this summer. This opens room is his schedule senior year for his fine arts credit and Latin 4.
If we had it to do over we would have done PE/Health as a summer school class to open more space. The STEM programs are great, but leave no room in the schedule and make it impossible for the kids to be in the top 10% because of weighted classes. I like PLTW because he will have a real feel for engineering before he leaves HS and will have more of an idea if this is the career he wants to go into. But, if he decides against engineering I worry the courses will hurt his chances of getting into an LAC.
With the current push in this country towards STEM it seems like we could find a way not to penalize the kids who are at the beginning of this trend in HS.</p>
<p>At most colleges the recommended HS curriculum is just that—recommended, not required. Two years of a foreign language coupled with a strong STEM curriculum isn’t likely to prove fatal at most of these schools. But check on this with each of the schools on his target list; some schools really do require 4 years of a foreign language.</p>
<p>Another option if you can swing it financially is to pick up a full year’s HS language credit in a 4-week summer immersion program at the Concordia Language Villages in Minnesota. My D2 has really enjoyed her summer program at Concordia which she’s been attending for 5 years now, beginning with middle school 2-week programs. Last year was her second year as a HS “credit villager.” The HS credit courses are fully accredited and graded, and Concordia issues an official transcript that can accompany the student’s regular HS transcript. (Some high schools will give credit toward HS graduation requirements for successfully completing this program, but it sounds like that’s not an issue in your case). These are well known and highly regarded programs, and I’m sure most colleges and universities are familiar with them and grant full credit for a year of language study. They’re also, IMO, a more humane, effective, and accountable way to learn a language than an online program.</p>
<p>For Mom24boys, the PLTW courses for my son were invaluable for him to decide whether he liked engineering or not before he went to college. His interest lies that way so even if he had decided not to go into engineering, he would have probably chosen something that the things he learned would have come in handy (or even helped in his life skills). Except for taking maybe one more year of language, there really weren’t many other electives that interested him (music, art, cooking etc. are not for him) so this was the right course for him, and hopefully will be the right course for your S. I really don’t think these courses will hurt your son in anyway to getting into the college of his choice. (Lucky because he was in a separate school, he didn’t have the GPA problems as everyone took courses weighted the same.)</p>
<p>kjcphmom - I think you are right and it has been great for his social life (loves First Robotics). If he doesn’t do the engineering track it may be applied math. He would have taken more AP’s, both years of physics and chemistry and some AP social studies, economics, etc. if he didn’t do PTLW. Those are the courses he is missing - art, music and cooking are not for him. The cooking would have been great as a life skill, but I don’t think the school even offers it. I made him take a double period of English freshman year and we are playing catch up, so its good to hear PTLW works out, the first group of kids are graduating this year and it is a very small program at our school.</p>
<p>For Mom24boys - First Robotics rocks - even though my son’s team last year didn’t end up doing so well, they learned so much. Hopefully you know about the First Robotics scholarships…some schools offer 10,000 (some for 4 years) for being in First Robotics. Unfortunately my son went for these scholarships for 2 of the schools he applied for but didn’t get them. Doesn’t mean your son won’t…make sure he applies for them as a senior!</p>
<p>Just a word of caution to some folks out there (Mom24Boys). Some colleges require that the language be a spoken language … Latin does not count towards this requirement. U of Delaware is one example that I am aware of. This is not specified on their web site, however, the adcon speaking at a prospective student presentation did make it very clear. Might be worth asking the specific schools your kids are interested in.</p>
<p>kjcphmom - Thanks for the heads up on the scholarships. Son’s team is a rookie team and they are learning a lot (not doing great). Since there are only 4 rookie teams in the area they have a 1 in 4 chance of going to St. Louis.
SnLMom - U of Delaware was on my list of schools to visit this spring, so that is a bit of a set back. Thanks for info, will look into it.</p>