<p>I was accepted into both universities, and I'm struggling to figure out where I want to go. I've wanted to go to Michigan my entire life, but now that I have to make a decision, it's harder than I thought it was going to be. I really like both campuses, even though they're completely different. I know U of M's campus a lot better because I've had some family members that go there, but that doesn't have too much of an influence on my decision. My only problem with Michigan is the competitive/cutthroat environment versus State's more laid back student body. I'm planning on majoring in Computer Science, and if I went to Michigan, I would try applying to Ross. I'm also interested in joining a fraternity. My big question is if I went to State, would it be a lot more difficult landing a high paying job out of state than if I went to Michigan? </p>
<p>The answer to your question is yes.
Also, the world is a competitive place. At some point you have to compete, or I guess you can take a public sector job.</p>
<p>Please accept my sincere apologies for my honesty.</p>
<p>^I’ll actually back bearcats up on this, and it’s rare for us to agree 
If your plans involve higher-level programming ad higher-level pay and you want to be recruited globally as opposed to locally, there really is no comparison. Umich is the clear winner. You just won the lottery, because as an in-stater, you have access to what probably cost bearcats a cool 200k to get as an out-of-stater ;)</p>
<p>And frankly, if you were accepted EA when far fewer were this year, I think you’ve got the stuff to handle the rigor. So don’t look back. And truly, I suspect you’ll find Umich more collegial and less cutthroat than you think. But to really develop your full capacity, you need to surround yourself with high achievers, IMHO.</p>
<p>If maximizing your chances of landing a high-paying job out of state, or even in-state for that matter, is your priority, then go to Michigan. It is clearly the better of the two universities, and employers know that, so they target Michigan students more aggressively than MSU students. That is not to say that MSU is not good, because it is, or that its students are not well recruited, because they are, but Michigan has the clear edge. </p>
<p>Also, like kmcmom13, I do not often agree with bearcats, but in this case, he is correct. If your goal is a high paying job in technology, you should be ready to compete for those few coveted jobs. ;)</p>
<p>Haha, I appreciate the honesty. It’s what I needed to hear.</p>
<p>One of the first UM graduates with computer science Ph.D was Larry Page’s father (Carl Vincent Page Sr.), who taught at MSU. Presumably he would have had insight into the relative state of the two programs. He sent his son to Michigan. Larry’s brother Carl also attended Michigan and sold his internet company for $400MM.</p>
<p>Remember, if you go to Michigan (versus MSU, which is a good school) you will tap into one of the strongest most distributed alumni networks in the country. You can easily test this by looking at LinkedIn ratings…however flawed they may be, they are probably somewhat indicative: <a href=“https://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/edu/rankings/us/undergraduate-software-engineering”>https://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/edu/rankings/us/undergraduate-software-engineering</a> In this ranking, Michigan is tied for 9th with Stanford and it appears to be the case that MSU is not in the top 25.</p>
<p>Michigan computer science alumns (whether COE or LSA) are found all over the place:
<a href=“List of University of Michigan alumni - Wikipedia”>List of University of Michigan alumni - Wikipedia;
<p>I chose msu for undergrad (over Michigan) and am now at Michigan for grad. Not in cs though. Do not and never have regretted my choices. Feel free to pm me if you have any questions :)</p>
<p>romani, in many industries, such as hospitality, agriculture, human resources, education or accounting, a degree from MSU will serve you as well, if not better, than a degree from Michigan. That cannot be denied.</p>
<p>^but we’re talking CS here …and possibly Ross. And the poster specifically asked about landing a high-paying job out of state.</p>
<p>So even if state gave him great merit/funding, and Michigan didn’t, Michigan is still the better spend as an in-stater in this case, given the remuneration possibilities. I’m on the periphery of the field, and have a client who is an IT recruiter out east, and know several programmers, some of whom work for the big consulting cos. Google recruits from Michigan for a reason. Know a kid who was placed last month.</p>
<p>None of this is meant to cast aspersions on State, which has its strengths and is a great regional option. The distinction in this case is specifically regional versus national strength in a discipline that is in high demand if you have the right credentials.</p>
<p>Notice I did explicitly say that I was not in CS. I was just here to offer advice from someone who has been in this position. </p>
<p>I have said many, many times- for some, State is better. For others, Michigan is better. RARELY do I advise to base this choice on major because A- many people change majors and B- there is more to college than just your major (and that is reality). </p>
<p>One of my very best friends went to Michigan as a CS major. He graduated and a year later got a Google recruit email (he works at a small company now… second interview with Google is in January). I know the perks that Michigan has but I also know he hated much of his time there and would’ve chosen elsewhere. I rarely mention his story in a negative light because I am seen as biased and I don’t know the full details as it was him, not me, that went through it. </p>
<p>romanigypseyes, in all my years, I have never actually met a student or alumni who actually “hated” her/his time at Michigan, and that’s in over 20 years of exposure to students and alumni. I met many who were indifferent, but none that disliked it. One of my close friends when I was at Michigan was a very conservative Catholic, and she felt out of place somehow, so she transferred to Notre Dame. She genuinely preferred it in South Bend, but also admitted that in retrospect, her time at Michigan was also good, and that part of the reason she did not love it at Michigan is because she did not allow herself to. </p>
<p>That being said, I can imagine some students at Michigan truly dislike their experience, and some may even hate it, but those would really be a tiny minority. </p>
<p>On a separate note, I know a young lady who recently went to MSU from Dubai. She is French and grew up in Paris, Barcelona and Dubai. Her ideal attire is beachwear and she loves big cities. As fate would have it, after applying to many top Journalism departments, she ended up getting acceptances to MSU, Colorado-Boulder, Mizzou (arguably #1 on Journalism) and American University. Her father insisted that she go to MSU. After a year of complaining about"the Vortex" and EL being too small, she transferred to the University of Miami, a seemingly much better fit for her considering the beaches and nightlife. Unfortunately for her, the moment she arrived at Miami, she realized that leaving MSU was a mistake. Since she got to Miami, all she can do is compare it to MSU and for some reason, poor Miami always falls short! </p>
<p>Moral of the story, while I believe “fit” is very important, I also believe that if you give a place, any place, a chance, you will most likely like it, unless you are really not capable of fitting in. An extremely liberal student in a very conservative school or vice versa. An international student in a school that does not promote internationalism. A highly intellectual student in a non-intellectual school or vice versa etc…However, the larger the university, the more likely one is to fit in nicely somewhere. </p>
<p>He was conservative, but not intolerant and not religious. Literally the only thing he liked was being in marching band. He hated the cut-throatness and he felt that there was no support for students from his professors in his department. </p>
<p>Again, that is his story to tell, not mine. I wasn’t there so I have no idea if time and distance has made him hate his time there more than he did on graduation there. </p>
<p>Let me be perfectly clear: until this year, he was a through and through Michigan fan and still loved the teams and sports and all that. However, he legitimately hated his time there and wished he went somewhere else. </p>
<p>No offense, but your 20+ years of experience doesn’t negate the experience of one person. Might he be an outlier? Of course. And he likely is. </p>
<p>I do agree that many people will fit almost anywhere. I’m a bloom where you’re planted type and I would’ve done fine at Michigan. However, I believe I would’ve done better at MSU and luckily that is where I went. </p>
<p>Off to bed now… don’t want to keep Santa waiting ;). OP, I’m still here if you have questions. Like I said, I am now a grad student at Michigan (and have applied to PhD programs here so I clearly have few issues with the school itself) but was an undergrad at MSU and, again, loved it and my time there. I was also a GSI this year for students from pretty much every single department on campus and got to know quite a few of them. I’m also a project manager on an MCubed project which pulls students in from all over campus and I work quite closely with them. I interact with a much wider array of students in my positions at U of M than I ever did at MSU and if anything, my knowledge of U of M students is more expansive than MSU where I mostly stuck with people from my majors. </p>
<p>I can’t speak for state, but CS at umich is a powerhouse. Maybe look at the competition in a different light. It will make you a better programmer and a better student in the long run :)</p>
<p>This building was just put on line in the last 24 months or so: <a href=“http://campusinfo.umich.edu/building-search/building/525/bob-and-betty-beyster-building”>http://campusinfo.umich.edu/building-search/building/525/bob-and-betty-beyster-building</a> </p>
<p>Michigan systems are state of the art, the networks are state of the art, this new facility is state of the art. Michigan has a large presence in network security and alums have formed companies which provide something like 70% of all internet security.</p>
<p><a href=“https://www.google.com/search?q=“University+of+Michigan”+computer+science+building&hl=en&gl=us&authuser=0&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=jYCfVOTwDcmgNsDKgIAF&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAw&biw=960&bih=456&dpr=2”>https://www.google.com/search?q=“University+of+Michigan”+computer+science+building&hl=en&gl=us&authuser=0&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=jYCfVOTwDcmgNsDKgIAF&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAw&biw=960&bih=456&dpr=2</a></p>
<p>“No offense, but your 20+ years of experience doesn’t negate the experience of one person. Might he be an outlier? Of course. And he likely is.”</p>
<p>That was my point romani. While it is not common for one to hate their experience at Michigan, you are quite right in saying that it happens. </p>
<p>“He hated the cut-throatness and he felt that there was no support for students from his professors in his department.”</p>
<p>Sounds like your friend was better suited for a liberal arts college rather than an elite research universities. Generally speaking, the latter tends to attract cutthroat students and seemingly unsupportive faculty. I can assure you, Cal, Caltech, Carnegie Mellon, Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, MIT, Northwestern, Penn, UIUC (especially Engineering and CS) etc…will have competitive students and unsupportive faculty.</p>
<p>Honestly there is plenty of drinking at UofM probably not a strong reason to pick one over the other.</p>